The Academies - 2016

[isamedthegiants]

You tell me, where are all the draftees from Canberra? Dubbo? Bathurst?

So our academy was meant to have instant success in non-traditional areas with kids that never played AFL before we came along?

That was the standard we had to meet?

Pretty hard yardstick.

What are we? A football club or demi-gods?

 

[isamedthegiants]

How many father sons get drafted to each club every year? Probably about the same as if you just based your academies in Western Sydney I'd presume.

I think we've had 2 since I can remember.

But the chance for every other team to have one, is there.

Except us and the Suns.

 

[bird_man]

But the chance for every other team to have one, is there.

Except us and the Suns.

Yes, which is why I agree you should have academies. One in the Gold Coast and one in western Sydney.

 

[isamedthegiants]

Yes, which is why I agree you should have academies. One in the Gold Coast and one in western Sydney.

How old are you mate?

Genuine question, bracket is fine if you don't want to disclose.

 

[bird_man]

How old are you mate?

Genuine question, bracket is fine if you don't want to disclose.

32, why do you ask?

 

[isamedthegiants]

32, why do you ask?

So you can remember 2 father sons in 32 years. 1 every 16 years or there-abouts.

Mate we will be ahead of our goals if we have 1 player drafted from the Western Sydney academy within 15 years.

If we just had the Western Sydney academy, which is fully funded by the Giants, and we poured 15 years worth of money into it for one player, would that be a good use of money?

If we are still "on the AFL's teat" as some put it, how would you feel as the supporter of a traditional club without the fiscal resources of other traditional "heavyweights" feel about us siphoning money into a black hole for Ahmed Mahmoud from Bankstown to first pick up a Sherrin at 7 and turn his back on the Bulldogs during his formative years going to Bankstown High?

Fact is we need to draw from an area where there is already an interest otherwise the $200,000,000.00 Giants will cost $300,000,000.00 in 20 years.

Does the AFL want that?
Do we want that as fans of the game?

In all this talk, what have we proved as a club?

Nothing. Zero. Zilch.

There has been a whole lot of knee-jerk reaction driven by one president who blames us for his 2 Premierships in 50 years, doomsaying the Giants all because he under-estimated our welfare programmes we initiated to retain our top end draftees.

Little does that bloke realise that the last 3 flags have been won by a Melbourbe club. Just because it wasn't his club he wants to stifle any potential growth we may haven'I the short term.

And the academy zones are his starting point.

 

[Tedeski]

Here is what I don't quite understand with all this concern over the Academies from Eddie.

If he is so concerned with them becoming much stronger, then why on earth did he give them perhaps the best leader/marking/running defender of the last perhaps 7 or 8 years in Heath Shaw!

It's all very well to a bunch of young guns but without this guy's leadership & experience, they are pretty much vulnerable to most teams in the competition.
Heath Shaw, thanks to Eddie & Bucks, is where this team gets it's amazing run & drive from.

Idiot Ed!

You had him right in the palm of your hand & you gave him up to the very team & system you fear, when he very much said he wanted to stay a Pie for the rest of his career!

Eddie is done because he is too short sighted!

 

[Cleric]

Yeah, because they're totally going to stop playing Australian Football in Griffith.

Literally dozens of better ways that the Riverina could be managed while GWS can then get to work on developing players from non-traditional AFL backgrounds like what the academies are supposed to do. Not sure why Sydney, Brisbane and GC should be expected to train kids how to kick the ball properly while GWS get to play with kids who've played australian rules their entire life. Perhaps the rest of the competition would be more receptive to academies if they were being used as intended.

This. The Brisbane and Sydney posters are defending GWS's Riverina zone so hard yet are failing to see that it is so unfair to what they are getting.
The idea of the academies is to promote the game in non-afl areas such as GWS, Brisbane etc. The Riverina is doing fine and I prefer that GWS spend all their time and efforts in areas where there is no output.

 

[isamedthegiants]

This. The Brisbane and Sydney posters are defending GWS's Riverina zone so hard yet are failing to see that it is so unfair to what they are getting.
The idea of the academies is to promote the game in non-afl areas such as GWS, Brisbane etc. The Riverina is doing fine and I prefer that GWS spend all their time and efforts in areas where there is no output.

There isn't going to be output from an academy perspective for 15 years.

It will take that long to win the hearts and minds of just one kid.

Have you ever lived in Western Sydney? Are you familiar with the demographics/region?

Genuine question.

 

[Cleric]

You're welcome.



It makes perfect sense. We can only have a Western Sydney academy, sure. How long will it take to actually find one draftee from the region that has never played AFL before and who's parents only follow League or Soccer? It would take 15 years, at a minimum.



Sure. No more father / sons for the rest of the league until we have an eligible player. That's fair, surely.

Do your admitting the only reason you want an academy is to get dibs of the top talent, and not to try and promote the game in a non afl area?
Have a look at the shitty acadamy the two SA sides have got. The APY lands? Seriously? The biggest issue for Aboriginal kids up there is safe drinking water, access to health facilities and schooling. AFL ranks pretty low in a low poulation area.
So using your logic the Crows should say "screw it" because we might not get a player for the next 10 years. But thats not what its about.
Oh but hang on you say, we can also get Asian kids whos parents come from overseas as well. Awesome, cos there has been a ton of Asian AFL players over the last few years. You talk about the lean period from the Riverina, but those numbers still destroy anything that comes from the Asian communities or the APY lands.

 

[isamedthegiants]

Do your admitting the only reason you want an academy is to get dibs of the top talent, and not to try and promote the game in a non afl area?
Have a look at the shitty acadamy the two SA sides have got. The APY lands? Seriously? The biggest issue for Aboriginal kids up there is safe drinking water, access to health facilities and schooling. AFL ranks pretty low in a low poulation area.
So using your logic the Crows should say "screw it" because we might not get a player for the next 10 years. But thats not what its about.
Oh but hang on you say, we can also get Asian kids whos parents come from overseas as well. Awesome, cos there has been a ton of Asian AFL players over the last few years. You talk about the lean period from the Riverina, but those numbers still destroy anything that comes from the Asian communities or the APY lands.

Lin Jong's doing alright isn't he?

Anyway, back on topic.

What I'm saying is there was no point giving us an academy at all, unless we had an area, any area, I'll let you pick one out, which actually gave us some players who had at least shown a passing interest in AFL, and who at least knew what a Sherrin was.

Could you answer my question;

Have you ever lived, or even visited, Western Sydney?

 

[Balony_pony16]

Funny example with Kennedy. In his post-draft interview he reckoned he wouldn't have been noticed and would've just played the local comp with his brother without GWS. Sure, he'd play aussie rules but he never would've played AFL by his own admission.

But that is the point isn't it? Regardless of Academies Kennedy would have been playing Aussie Rules. You can dump a academy in all the states and I'm sure you can improve a heap of young kids from park footy destined to a chance at AFL. Does the AFL game actually need promoting in the Riverina area? Lots of people think not.

Heeney would have never played the game had it not been for the Academies, where as you have guys like Kennedy who was always going to play Aussie Rules in some capacity. If the GWS actually developed the Riverina area it would be a much better look (obviously aint the case), but the fact they get access to Kids who have grown up with footy from the age of 5 kinda has a bad smell about it. The Riverina is a recruitment zone and not a development zone IMO

 

[AliceCat]

The unspoken problem is what happens when the AFL does move the Riverina out of the GWS zone, as seems likely.

The facts are still that it produced next to no draftable talent for 10 years. Now someone is out there identifying it and there's multiple top picks coming through every year, so obviously it's there - it just needed nurturing. If the AFL is taking the Riverina off GWS, I really hope they step up to the plate because otherwise there's no doubt the Riverina will go back to producing rookies and players who have to move state to get noticed.

Maybe they should look into basing a TAC Cup team out of Wagga. Instead of getting zoned to the Bushrangers, with the two hour one way travel to Wangaratta for training, they get local training and talent identification, ala the academy work, it's run by the AFL and all clubs get dibs. Hopefully that way the Riverina kids coming through don't get screwed because their mates were just too good in 2015 and 2016.

Obviously it would be ideal it NSW had their own TAC comp but that is obviously quite a few years away.

The Rams already have a handful of games in the TAC but I love the idea of the Riverina having a full time team playing in the TAC Cup along with a Canberra team. The talent is there to justify it. However what about the remainder of the NSW talent?...maybe their could also be a NSW best of the rest team entered in the TAC Cup as well?

The long term aim has to be for NSW/ACT/QLD to have an U18 elite comp that is run along the lines of the NEAFL, which surely the AFL would be aiming for in the near future.

 

[Garlic muncher]

You tell me, where are all the draftees from Canberra? Dubbo? Bathurst?

2 players were drafted from Canberra last year

 

[isamedthegiants]

Obviously it would be ideal it NSW had their own TAC comp but that is obviously quite a few years away.

The Rams already have a handful of games in the TAC but I love the idea of the Riverina having a full time team playing in the TAC Cup along with a Canberra team. The talent is there to justify it. However what about the remainder of the NSW talent?...maybe their could also be a NSW best of the rest team entered in the TAC Cup as well?

The long term aim has to be for NSW/ACT/QLD to have an U18 elite comp that is run along the lines of the NEAFL, which surely the AFL would be aiming for in the near future.

Will not happen in any of our lifetimes.

That is 60 years away.

Unless you know Sydney intricately, you don't know just how far back AFL is from the pack.

 

[AliceCat]

2 players were drafted from Canberra last year

Not sure if the ACT will have any draftees this year but they'll definitely be at least a couple the year after including a possible first rounder in Jack Powell.

 

[bird_man]

So you can remember 2 father sons in 32 years. 1 every 16 years or there-abouts.

Mate we will be ahead of our goals if we have 1 player drafted from the Western Sydney academy within 15 years.

If we just had the Western Sydney academy, which is fully funded by the Giants, and we poured 15 years worth of money into it for one player, would that be a good use of money?

If we are still "on the AFL's teat" as some put it, how would you feel as the supporter of a traditional club without the fiscal resources of other traditional "heavyweights" feel about us siphoning money into a black hole for Ahmed Mahmoud from Bankstown to first pick up a Sherrin at 7 and turn his back on the Bulldogs during his formative years going to Bankstown High?

Fact is we need to draw from an area where there is already an interest otherwise the $200,000,000.00 Giants will cost $300,000,000.00 in 20 years.

Does the AFL want that?
Do we want that as fans of the game?

In all this talk, what have we proved as a club?

Nothing. Zero. Zilch.

There has been a whole lot of knee-jerk reaction driven by one president who blames us for his 2 Premierships in 50 years, doomsaying the Giants all because he under-estimated our welfare programmes we initiated to retain our top end draftees.

Little does that bloke realise that the last 3 flags have been won by a Melbourbe club. Just because it wasn't his club he wants to stifle any potential growth we may haven'I the short term.

And the academy zones are his starting point.

I haven't even heard what Eddy has said and I don't care. This has been my feeling for a long time.

GWS aren't pumping money into the area so they can get one player every 15 years. They are meant to be growing the game there, getting kids to play footy and if a few come through and play for the club its a bonus.

You guys have had an amazing run with hand outs, and I'm not complaining because I want to see the club make it and if they aren't successful there is no hope of that.

But the AFL has worked hard for decades now to make sure we have an even competition and what we have now is far from fair.

 

[isamedthegiants]

I haven't even heard what Eddy has said and I don't care. This has been my feeling for a long time.

GWS aren't pumping money into the area so they can get one player every 15 years. They are meant to be growing the game there, getting kids to play footy and if a few come through and play for the club its a bonus.

You guys have had an amazing run with hand outs, and I'm not complaining because I want to see the club make it and if they aren't successful there is no hope of that.

But the AFL has worked hard for decades now to make sure we have an even competition and what we have now is far from fair.

That's not an academy though.

That's Auskick in the park on a Saturday morning.

 

[Suma Magic]

How about this as an idea for the review into Academy fairness:

The discounts are linked to finishing position:

Finish 18th - 18% discount

Finish 1st - 1% discount

 

[bird_man]

That's not an academy though.

That's Auskick in the park on a Saturday morning.

I'm talking kids all the way through, from Auskick to under 18's. There is a reason you were put in Western Sydney and that is to grow the game. AFL has alway been big in Wagga.

 

[AliceCat]

Will not happen in any of our lifetimes.

That is 60 years away.

Unless you know Sydney intricately, you don't know just how far back AFL is from the pack.

NSW born and bread so understand the challenges the code faces. That said I can see it happening (hopefully sooner than 60yrs) and will be interesting to see if this comes into discussion if the academies get canned.

Maybe the teams wouldn't necessarily be NEAFL aligned but long term it would make sense. Maybe the comp could start off with:

NSW
Riverina/Canberra/Southern NSW
Sydney
Western Sydney
Black Diamond/North Coast

QLD
Gold Coast
Brisbane
Nth QLD
Regional QLD?

 

[bird_man]

NSW born and bread so understand the challenges the code faces. That said I can see it happening (hopefully sooner than 60yrs) and will be interesting to see if this comes into discussion if the academies get canned.

Maybe the teams wouldn't necessarily be NEAFL aligned but long term it would make sense. Maybe the comp could start off with:

NSW
Riverina/Canberra/Southern NSW
Sydney
Western Sydney
Black Diamond/North Coast

QLD
Gold Coast
Brisbane
Nth QLD
Regional QLD?

I don't understand why the Riverina don't have a side in the TAC cup.

 

[isamedthegiants]

I'm talking kids all the way through, from Auskick to under 18's. There is a reason you were put in Western Sydney and that is to grow the game. AFL has alway been big in Wagga.

So Narrandera and Collingullie are also strong holds?

However, we are growing the game.

But that is the marketing departments role, not the Football Department's.

And if you confuse growing the game from a fans perspective to a player participation perspective the 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[isamedthegiants]

NSW born and bread so understand the challenges the code faces. That said I can see it happening (hopefully sooner than 60yrs) and will be interesting to see if this comes into discussion if the academies get canned.

Maybe the teams wouldn't necessarily be NEAFL aligned but long term it would make sense. Maybe the comp could start off with:

NSW
Riverina/Canberra/Southern NSW
Sydney
Western Sydney
Black Diamond/North Coast

QLD
Gold Coast
Brisbane
Nth QLD
Regional QLD?

I'm 37.

AFL will never be dominant in Sydney in my lifetime.

Never.

 

[bird_man]

So Narrandera and Collingullie are also strong holds?

However, we are growing the game.

But that is the marketing departments role, not the Football Department's.

And if you confuse growing the game from a fans perspective to a player participation perspective the 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

Yes Narrandera and Gullie have always been huge AFL towns.

Is your argument about growing the game in the Riverina or is it about getting more hand outs?