News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Did they have those people 18 years ago when these allegations may have happened?

I'd say even just the last 5 years clubs have made huge improvements.



Or he has never done those specific allegations to anyone. I cant imagine he would have ended any meeting ticking off "force an abortion".

18 years ago?
These allegations are from within the last 10 years.

You can’t even imagine that Clarkson was a declining coach despite the fact that he had us bouncing around the bottom 4 for his last 2 years so of course you can’t see him doing anything wrong.

 

[Portology]

As a manager of people I have had to have some deeply personal conversations with staff going through a hard time. I sure as s**t would not be suggesting or raising the prospect of abortion. In no way am I qualified to discuss that topic and provide advice. Nor is Clarko or any other coach.

Most organisations have employee assistance programs which provide psychological and counselling services by paid professionals. In the absence of eap, it would be far more appropriate for the club doctor to discuss issues with players and refer them to an appropriate counselling service than for the coach to step in. Recall that the club has been connected to beyond blue through Kennett for more than a decade. It should be more aware than any other club about the importance of professional support and counselling.

Very good points, including noting Kennett and Beyond Blue. History shows that horrific allegations send us looking for full time monsters, rather than garden variety demanding assholes who... crossed lines to put it mildly and behave monstrously some of the time towards some of the people.

Cant speak for the footy industry but the widespread adoption of external eap I think is mostly in the last 10 years or so? As recent history in footy has shown (in a few vastly different contexts) a club-employed doctor or sports psych can feel themselves conflicted.

On the Port board there's a bit of wonder how the Hawks kept open an incoming pipeline of indigenous players Burgoyne->Wingard->Impey(->Amon) in the face of these alleged behaviours. It made me think on the casual racism of say the Kennett-Rioli situation - everywhere to some degree, in no way particular to Hawthorn - versus the utterly horrific allegations which seem to involve young draftees? Maybe different behaviours applied to incoming established vs young draftees. You multiply a culture of casual racism by a few individuals' singular ruthlessness and you get... what we have heard. Leading to groups within groups as young kids put under terrible pressure don't necessarily share all their stories with the peers even in "their group". No need IMO to jump to seeing "spin" or conspiracy in comment from Burgoyne or Mitchell that they knew nothing, but think on all the whys they might have known nothing.

Just trying to see things as less binary and more as clusters on a spectrum in the hope of a bit more clarity. Read the story this afternoon in horror, wrapping it in "alleged" not cutting any of the shock. Can't begin to imagine how the players, families would feel put in such situations by people with power over their livelihoods, careers, well-being.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

18 year old kid, family problems, living interstate, only place of stability is the club, asks the coach for help and the coach says "sorry, off you go son".

I'd bet all my money that every coach has had dozens or even hundreds of personal discussions with players helping them with all sorts of personal issues.

Nobody is saying to say 'sorry, off you go son' - they are saying they should have sought him the correct guidance not offered up their unqualified, and seemingly unhelpful, advice. This isn't 1988 we are talking about - this is 10-15 years ago and blokes in those positions would have known what other support was out there.

 

[Alite]

After the Collingwood review and now this at the Hawks you would think the AFL should set up an investigation into all clubs conduct.

I’d bet there are many more skeletons still in closets than those that have been found.

Create / fix the systems, set up proper oversight, protect whistle blowers and all players involved in incidences, and never let the interest of a club outweigh that of the player and their families.

Stamp out the problem now, once and for all!

 

[HairyO]

18 years ago?
These allegations are from within the last 10 years.

You can’t even imagine that Clarkson was a declining coach despite the fact that he had us bouncing around the bottom 4 for his last 2 years so of course you can’t see him doing anything wrong.

I am open to the idea that he may in fact be innocent. I dont tend to believe guilt in people based on a news article which only have 1 side of the story. That puts me in a minority for Big Footy, I agree.

I also think Fagan may in fact be innocent. I dont think Ive ever shared an opinion on whether he can do no wrong.

 

[Nuggets73]

"Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child"

He needs to face the public and explain this statement ... and if proven to be true, Clarkson is one deplorable human being and should be banished from the sport

I'm reserving judgement until I've heard both sides, I've learnt that the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
.... But even if that's the case, our club has a lot to answer for

 

[H00t]

Or he has never done those specific allegations to anyone. I cant imagine he would have ended any meeting ticking off "force an abortion".

If he knows within himself he hasn’t done it. It wouldn’t matter who has made the allegations because Clarko would know the accusations are false.

 

[old55]

Tough day to be a Hawks supporter for sure. I know our clubs hate each other but I also know that there's a real person behind every keyboard and I'm feeling for you all with this. It's really really shitty.

Totally agree. I don't love Hawthorn. But I really feel for all passionate Hawks fans who must be hurting from this.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

"Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child"

He needs to face the public and explain this statement ... and if proven to be true, Clarkson is one deplorable human being and should be banished from the sport

I'm reserving judgement until I've heard both sides, I've learnt that the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
.... But even if that's the case, our club has a lot to answer for

Even if he just implied it it’s ******* disgusting.

 

[Saint12]

Just kind of clicked with me, the old anecdotes of Clarko randomly rocking up at a players house unannounced, or telling a player to meet him somewhere out of hours, or even buying and giving Grant Birchall a dog - are seen in a bit of a different light now, pretty intrusive as opposed to the loving nature they used to have.

Didn't he also doorstop Jake Carlisle in USA and Buddy if I remember correctly?

 

[Mississippi]

What a quality person Luke Hodge is. His comments quoted in today’s Age are so impressive, showing true maturity and leadership.
Whilst he acknowledges that he had no personal knowledge of the events, he pulls no punches and conveys his shock and dismay and his empathy for the players in question.

I wish he was back at the club in some role - any role.

 

[Nuggets73]

Even if he just implied it it’s ******* disgusting.

Agreed, that quote was appalling - I've been sitting here all day in shock, can't believe what I'm reading

 

[MasterSamurai]

I have hit a wall!

 

[Mississippi]

On an ancillary issue - I hope this gives the club the opportunity to cancel payment of the final $450,000 to Clarkson (assuming the allegations are proven of course).

May come down to some legal fine print.

 

[TheExtractorFactor]

So much of my life, spirit, time and emotion was poured into the club during the Clarkson years. This news makes it feel like it was all for nothing. I can’t believe it.

When you care so deeply, the performance of the club ends up tying into your own sense of self. Their successes feel like your successes. To think that the enrichment of my life was happening whilst others were having theirs destroyed is so awful.

To me this goes against everything Sam Mitchell would stand for - but I would have thought the same about Alistair 12 hours ago.

It’s going to be a long offseason and I suspect I’m not the only one who is really going to have to reassess where they sit as a supporter moving forward.

 

[Mrzohs]

Even if he just implied it it’s ******* disgusting.

It's not black and white let's give Clarko a chance to respond before hanging him dry off the back of journalist.

If proven to be correct 100% he will be exited out of the game.

 

[BobHawk]

My view would be “why the * were they even having that conversation?”.

That’s not a discussion for coaches to be having with players.

That is the really curious aspect about the piece from the ABC today. It had nothing to do with welfare or general concern about people. It was senior people in the football department making decisions and pushing their own agenda based purely on how to make these young blokes successful AFL footballers. That was it. Football. I imagine this is standard procedure in all AFL clubs but without these sort of extreme processes and outcomes.

 

[sirhakwer]

It's not black and white let's give Clarko a chance to respond before hanging him dry off the back of journalist and potional interview with a former drug addict.

If proven to be correct 100% he will be exited out of the game.

Most sane comment here.

Surely the common sense thing here is to wait for the full story and investigation before hanging, what I assume to be good people, out to dry.

 

[macdaddio]

 

[Leather Poisoning]

On an ancillary issue - I hope this gives the club the opportunity to cancel payment of the final $450,000 to Clarkson (assuming the allegations are proven of course).

May come down to some legal fine print.

Surely there's some kind of behavioural clause in the contract.

 

[Jaeger]

 

[Brishawk]

Very good points, including noting Kennett and Beyond Blue. History shows that horrific allegations send us looking for full time monsters, rather than garden variety demanding assholes who... crossed lines to put it mildly and behave monstrously some of the time towards some of the people.

Cant speak for the footy industry but the widespread adoption of external eap I think is mostly in the last 10 years or so? As recent history in footy has shown (in a few vastly different contexts) a club-employed doctor or sports psych can feel themselves conflicted.

On the Port board there's a bit of wonder how the Hawks kept open an incoming pipeline of indigenous players Burgoyne->Wingard->Impey(->Amon) in the face of these alleged behaviours. It made me think on the casual racism of say the Kennett-Rioli situation - everywhere to some degree, in no way particular to Hawthorn - versus the utterly horrific allegations which seem to involve young draftees? Maybe different behaviours applied to incoming established vs young draftees. You multiply a culture of casual racism by a few individuals' singular ruthlessness and you get... what we have heard. Leading to groups within groups as young kids put under terrible pressure don't necessarily share all their stories with the peers even in "their group". No need IMO to jump to seeing "spin" or conspiracy in comment from Burgoyne or Mitchell that they knew nothing, but think on all the whys they might have known nothing.

Just trying to see things as less binary and more as clusters on a spectrum in the hope of a bit more clarity. Read the story this afternoon in horror, wrapping it in "alleged" not cutting any of the shock. Can't begin to imagine how the players, families would feel put in such situations by people with power over their livelihoods, careers, well-being.

What I am about to say in no way mitigates or lessens the accusations in anyway. Before Clarko, no indigenous play 50 games for hawthorn. The first to do so was chance Bateman and it’s my understanding that Clarko supported him quite well. Maybe it will turn out that my understanding isn’t wrong but Bateman speaks highly of Clarko and the club. Burgoyne also speaks highly of both. Chad certainly loves the club. And if amon spoke to those players, he would no doubt be impressed by the club.

Clarko and the club must have been doing some things right and we recruited more indigenous players under Clarko than for the rest of the time the club has existed. So it’s not like Clarko or the club didn’t want to be an attractive place for indigenous players.

However, the image of Clarko that is emerging is of someone who is very driven and wants to help but is completely ignorant of cultural issues and discounts these entirely from his decision making. People might be tempted to view these interventions as non-racist in nature but he is approaching them as people he assumes have the same cultural and social need for connection to family as he does. His decisions are informed entirely by his own cultural and social background at the expense of the player’s.

So while he might believe he would treat all players equally, I think it is clear, he doesn’t treat players how they should be treated. I think his paternalism carries with it an extreme scepticism about the value of family to indigenous players. And that is racism. I dare say if he asked a white players souse to abort a child this would have come out a long time ago. Frankly, if he did it to me I would have punched him in the face. But I’m not indigenous and isolated from all my family and support network like many of these boys that come to the club.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I would derive great joy in seeing your club and supporters suffer. And I do think there was an element of racism in the mob booing of Goodes.

But I’d be pausing before drawing judgment on this story. Too many elements just don’t sit right. I’d be waiting and carefully looking at all sides of this story.

 

[CD Xbow]

Most folks here seem to very quick to assume Clarko and Fagan are guilty of the acts they are alleged to have done. Quick frankly it seems out of character, so I am going to wait until this is investigated properly. If they have done what they are accused of then they should never work in the industry again, but there is something stinky about this report. It's timing, the way it fingers Clarko and Fages so completely. Who commissioned it and who ran it?

 

[Kanga Commando]

I would derive great joy in seeing your club and supporters suffer. And I do think there was an element of racism in the mob booing of Goodes.

But I’d be pausing before drawing judgment on this story. Too many elements just don’t sit right. I’d be waiting and carefully looking at all sides of this story.

be gentle. some of us will actually barrack for you on Saturday....