High Stakes Poker, The Big Game, etc
- Thread starter Borgsta
- Start date
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Seems like Matt Savage agrees with me
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27798614&postcount=267
Poor form from the TD to not enforce a penalty. You can't praise him for what he said without criticising him for not enforcing a 5-minute or 1-orbit penalty. When he did it the first time, TD would have been called. Anyone could say it was an accident, but he should be warned to be careful in future. Next time it happens, same angle, TD would be called again. Min-raise stands, hand is live, dbag should then be given a one round penalty.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27798614&postcount=267
Poor form from the TD to not enforce a penalty. You can't praise him for what he said without criticising him for not enforcing a 5-minute or 1-orbit penalty. When he did it the first time, TD would have been called. Anyone could say it was an accident, but he should be warned to be careful in future. Next time it happens, same angle, TD would be called again. Min-raise stands, hand is live, dbag should then be given a one round penalty.
Surely the TD could inflict some kind of penalty? Maybe sit out a round or something along those lines, especially considering its not the first time
I was watching the vid while you posted
Penalty of some kind should have been there no doubt
Im curious as to why everyone assumes this spot is a minraise.
There is nothing that forces him to only minraise when he puts out a call first while announcing raise.
There is nothing that forces him to only minraise when he puts out a call first while announcing raise.
He said raise. Verbal is binding, so he must raise.
He then says Call, twice, thus verbalising an intention to put the minimum in the pot (angle shoot or not). You cannot permit him to raise whatever amount he feels after being able to gauge a reaction of his opponent. He says Call twice, acts confused, says he doesn't speak English, inquires about a ruling, yet you think he should still be entitled to go all-in?
Min-raise is the only possible correct ruling. It's not a call, not a fold (for angle shooting), he has lost his options.
I don't mind what the TD said, although he probably shouldn't have said anything, and the TD is at fault for this angle shoot because he didn't penalise him earlier. He then compounded the situation by not issuing a penalty for this angle shoot. Does this TD ever issue penalties?
He then says Call, twice, thus verbalising an intention to put the minimum in the pot (angle shoot or not). You cannot permit him to raise whatever amount he feels after being able to gauge a reaction of his opponent. He says Call twice, acts confused, says he doesn't speak English, inquires about a ruling, yet you think he should still be entitled to go all-in?
Min-raise is the only possible correct ruling. It's not a call, not a fold (for angle shooting), he has lost his options.
I don't mind what the TD said, although he probably shouldn't have said anything, and the TD is at fault for this angle shoot because he didn't penalise him earlier. He then compounded the situation by not issuing a penalty for this angle shoot. Does this TD ever issue penalties?
Evidence that this piece of s**t has done it before
http://bit.ly/oVWKuO
I hope he gets bashed one day soon.
http://bit.ly/oVWKuO
I hope he gets bashed one day soon.
Wow. That was 2 years ago! Surely TD's need to become aware of this
Should be banned from the game (not forever) if he does it again
Don't most cardrooms and tournaments have rules which explicitly prohibit the mis declaration of cards or intentions with the objective of inducing opponent's actions? Surely repeat behaviour should be enough for a ban?
The silly thing is that the angle shoot will often be to his own disadvantage, assuming the other person knows what's going on. But I imagine he has done this many times in tournaments that were not covered by reporters on tv crews.
I think this is correct on the mis-calling of your cards, but not sure if it applies to bet sizing etc...
I know some people that will be say, $20 with a tiger ($100 chip). If they say the amount softly, then its possible that the other player may see it only as a 100 bet and put in that much in green or red chips to make a call without verbalising the call. If that does happen, its a raise by the other player which could be a benefit to Mr 1 chip.
I guess Durrrr shouldn't raise often, everyone knows he raises often and we can be exploited. Also, tight players shouldnt just play the nuts, since we know they just play the nuts
The thing about angleshooting is that it isnt illegal, it's what makes the difference between shooting an angle and doing something that is flat out illegal, such as topping up during hands, taking back $$$ etc... If we make it so that when he says call, he is obliged to call, makes it a lot easier to angle then this.
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About the subject, I have seen two different people do things like this at Burswood.
1) A limit player (or former limit player, game is dead now sadly) liked to always make string raises when he had a hand he wanted to play for only the one bet. Pissed me off more because there would always be confusion between the dealer and him, and the one time a dealer took it as a raise he chucked the shits and wanted to take back the additional bet. This IMO is kind of scummy but not quite this
2) There is another player that likes to say raise, put out his raise, and then decide his raise size, then wait some more, then put out his money. I think this sucks because its so slow more then anything else.
As a prequalifier, this guy is a complete douche, but he hasnt done anything illegal from a rules perspective.
- Banned
- #487
^^^enforcing a min. raise in that spot is absolutely the only correct decision. If it was a genuine error, he would never want to raise more than min anyway. If it's an angleshoot, it minimises the benefit to the scumbag.
You make it hard to quote dammit!
I think in all of the confusion, two things stand out. One, the first thing out of his mouth is 'Raise', so that's binding. Then with all of the commotion, I would rule that he has forfeited his right (to his benefit or detriment) to do anything other than min-raise. In this instance, I think that is the fairest decision for all players.
With regards to your hypothetical, I think that's fine.
I think in all of the confusion, two things stand out. One, the first thing out of his mouth is 'Raise', so that's binding. Then with all of the commotion, I would rule that he has forfeited his right (to his benefit or detriment) to do anything other than min-raise. In this instance, I think that is the fairest decision for all players.
With regards to your hypothetical, I think that's fine.
Last week's PokerStars Big Game was awesome. This week has been almost as good. Catch both on www.pokerstars.tv.
Its only funny because its against "the greatest poker player in the world" , otherwise its punch on material as this game is traditionally played in pretty good spirit amongst the regulars and Tony G is out of line by abusing the trust and comerardery that this particular game is played with.
Interested in seeing the outcome but the only thing that would make this play right is if Tony only flicked the cards to the camera and actually didn't look a them himself.
Hachem's face after looking at the cards has to be one of the most blantant tells I have seen since watching some woman at Treasury Casino call a raise on the turn only to hit her straight and push all in, only to be called by the flush that she didn't see as she was so excited about hitting her straight.
Interested in seeing the outcome but the only thing that would make this play right is if Tony only flicked the cards to the camera and actually didn't look a them himself.
Hachem's face after looking at the cards has to be one of the most blantant tells I have seen since watching some woman at Treasury Casino call a raise on the turn only to hit her straight and push all in, only to be called by the flush that she didn't see as she was so excited about hitting her straight.
