IF Ben Cousins had played for Port......

[portentous]

how do you think our club would have handled things? Would he still be with us?

I can't imagine Gavin Wanganeen ever behaving that badly but IF he had, what would our expectations have been re the consequences? Does what happen in the off-season have ANY impact on a players' future at the club?

Are West Coast soft, or have other clubs just been better at "hushing things up"? Are they the "new St Kilda" re culture off-field or is Cousins the only offender?

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Just watch the Dean Brogan incident unfold to completion and you'll have your answer Portentous.

We could also look at the club's handling of Byron Pickett but I guess the difference is that despite a few of field dramas Cousins has continued to play really well whereas Pickett's form was pretty poor in his last year at Alberton.

In Cousins case he lost the captaincy of the club. Another player with apparently even bigger issues, Gardiner, is no longer there.

I think the club needs to balance a few issues. They include maintaining a good image, ensuring that the playing group remain focussed on the goal of onfield success and also getting the best value out of the squad of players it has recruited.

You would be reluctant to dump a player but a situation could occur where not doing so sends too many wrong signals to the other players and does too much damage to the club's reputation.

 

[morell]

Its not as if the Port boys have been angels.

Look at;

Burgoyne
Heuskes
Brogan
Pickett
Thurstans

Look at the way the club handled those issues ...

 

[manureid]

West Coast's fourth pick at the 2006 NAB AFL draft, Will Schofield, initially prepared himself for a life in Adelaide when he first heard his name read out in the draft.

In all the commotion of the big occasion, Schofield heard his name called out but missed what club he had been drafted by, initially believing he was headed to the Power.

"Mum and dad were really happy and giving me hugs but I had no idea where I was going … I thought it was Port Adelaide," Schofield said with a laugh.

"To hear it was West Coast - I was over the moon. You probably couldn't come to a more professional setting. I'd rather go to West Coast any day of the week.
"You look at (Chris) Judd and (Ben) Cousins - the best players in the league. To get the opportunity to come and play with them, you couldn't ask for much more."


Made more amusing given little Bennies latest indescretion. Bennie is displaying all of the professionalism that this young fellow should take on board and emulate.

 

[goneloco62]

I say with all the problems with theirs players maybe the Worst COaST COOLERS oops i mean Eagles should buy the old FREO PRISON to house their players so that when they do play up the police/courts can just return them home to the club

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

People are acting as though Cousins got caught in a hotel room with a pound of cocaine and a dozen underage prostitutes.

He got drunk at a club.

Is this really worth all the questions about whether WC are soft and have a rotten culture?

Last I checked, West Coast have a pretty good on-field record, so we must be doing something right.

Having a few players who like the sauce hasn't completely derailed the club, has it?

The media love these stories, and the punters eat it up because they get to tut-tut and be all high-and-mighty and judgemental.

But seriously, do you really care? Is it really that big a deal?

Is anyone seriously suggesting that this is horribly damaging to the club and the player group?

It's just overblown and people are all over it because there's nothing else happening.

Cousins will front up to training in immaculate condition. WC will be thereabouts in 2007 and Cousins will still be a gun.

But in the meantime, let's all freak out about the fact he got drunk.

Can you be bothered?

 

[dreamkillers]

People are acting as though Cousins got caught in a hotel room with a pound of cocaine and a dozen underage prostitutes.

He got drunk at a club.

Is this really worth all the questions about whether WC are soft and have a rotten culture?

Last I checked, West Coast have a pretty good on-field record, so we must be doing something right.

Having a few players who like the sauce hasn't completely derailed the club, has it?

The media love these stories, and the punters eat it up because they get to tut-tut and be all high-and-mighty and judgemental.

But seriously, do you really care? Is it really that big a deal?

Is anyone seriously suggesting that this is horribly damaging to the club and the player group?

It's just overblown and people are all over it because there's nothing else happening.

Cousins will front up to training in immaculate condition. WC will be thereabouts in 2007 and Cousins will still be a gun.

But in the meantime, let's all freak out about the fact he got drunk.

Can you be bothered?

it's the off season so don't take the posts too seriously..........

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Not only that but the thread is actually looking at how we would manage a situation.

I'd have to say, Gunnar, that given that you like to endlessly bump old threads about the Eagles you can hardly complain if people are taking a good hard look at your team and it's players. It's no different to celebrities who are happy to get positive media attention but then complain when there is bad publicity.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

I'd have to say, Gunnar, that given that you like to endlessly bump old threads about the Eagles...

What has that got to do with anything?

...you can hardly complain if people are taking a good hard look at your team and it's players.

Take a good hard look. Go for your life.

Just don't draw stupid conclusions.

Cousins getting drunk is not very serious. Let's not pretend otherwise.

What will the ramifications of this be? With the attention paid to it, you'd think there would actually be some pretty significant consequences for the club and the player.

But there won't be. This will change nothing. That's why I consider it trivial.

 

[Troy Wingate]

I wouldn't expect West Coast to get rid of Cousins, he is too good a player and is too valuable to the club. Chris Judd may officially have the captaincy, but Ben Cousins is still the captain on field.

 

[Portia]

This is becoming borderline Twilight Zone

 

[dreamkillers]

Cousins getting drunk is not very serious. Let's not pretend otherwise.

What will the ramifications of this be? With the attention paid to it, you'd think there would actually be some pretty significant consequences for the club and the player.

But there won't be. This will change nothing. That's why I consider it trivial.

Completely agree but the media and discussion boards will always have a bit of fun with things like this given the lack of real footy news in the off season.

 

[dreamkillers]

This is becoming borderline Twilight Zone

It would definitely be there is this was the footy season.........

 

[morell]

What has that got to do with anything?

Take a good hard look. Go for your life.

Just don't draw stupid conclusions.

Cousins getting drunk is not very serious. Let's not pretend otherwise.

What will the ramifications of this be? With the attention paid to it, you'd think there would actually be some pretty significant consequences for the club and the player.

But there won't be. This will change nothing. That's why I consider it trivial.

Completely agree but the media and discussion boards will always have a bit of fun with things like this given the lack of real footy news in the off season.

I'm not sure it should be considered trivial.

He is a professional athlete who has essentially committed a misdemeanour / crime.

He is 28 and should know better, it is by no means a gravely serious matter but it shouldnt be swept under the rug either.

Like it or lump it, he is a role model, if he doesn’t want to be one, that’s fine. Not many people look up to the local plumber who earns 70K a year

I am sick of both arguments;

a) AFL footballers should be Jesus like figures
b) AFL footballers are just normal people like you and me

As usual its all about balance.

What will the ramifications of this be?

Perhaps another contribution to the continued flawed logic of the Australian psyche that alcohol abuse is harmless and a bit of fun?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

He got drunk and did what?? Chucked up? Punched somebody? Mooned someone? Had a leak in public? When I find out what hid did, I might raise half a concern. Another example of a footballer, of all persuassions, doing the the wrong thing. The cops dealt with him, if need be, the law will as well so, big deal? I actually enjoy this sort of crap. It gives all the morals officers on these boards and in the media something to have a football orgasm about. I guess it's better to have a football orgasm than none at all. Did anybody get hurt? I don't think so.

Average player mucks up, club fines him, maybe dismisses him.
Great player mucks up, fine him, keep him on the list, we need to win the flag.
What else do you expect from this industry? NEXT!!

 

[morell]

He got drunk and did what?? Chucked up? Punched somebody? Mooned someone? Had a leak in public? When I find out what hid did, I might raise half a concern. Another example of a footballer, of all persuassions, doing the the wrong thing. The cops dealt with him, if need be, the law will as well so, big deal? I actually enjoy this sort of crap. It gives all the morals officers on these boards and in the media something to have a football orgasm about. I guess it's better to have a football orgasm than none at all. Did anybody get hurt? I don't think so.

Average player mucks up, club fines him, maybe dismisses him.
Great player mucks up, fine him, keep him on the list, we need to win the flag.
What else do you expect from this industry? NEXT!!

Is it ok if he did heroin or cocaine?

If not, what is the difference?

I would hazard a guess that alcohol abuse destroys more familles and lives than all the other drugs combined. Yet the abuse of it is socially acceptable. Very strange.

Mods. I think its moved into the twilight zone.

 

[Sandola]

Could I drag it back to the main Power board by asking if anyone has news about Brogan? Wasn't he supposed to go to court in October or November? Nothing in the local papers?

 

[DSL64]

Is it ok if he did heroin or cocaine?

If not, what is the difference?

I would hazard a guess that alcohol abuse destroys more familles and lives than all the other drugs combined. Yet the abuse of it is socially acceptable. Very strange.

Mods. I think its moved into the twilight zone.

Difference is alcohol is legal...
The last time I looked, heroin & cocaine is not...

 

[dreamkillers]

I'm not sure it should be considered trivial.

Trivial isn't probably the way I would see it but these things happen at each and every AFL footy club and are generally hushed up if they can.

If the allegations of what Farmer did are true I would hope he gets the appropriate punishment but we'll have to wait and see what actually happened before making judgement there.

He is a professional athlete who has essentially committed a misdemeanour / crime.

Correct but this latest incident is very minor compared to a couple of his pasts efforts and in this case most clubs would have players each year in the same situation.............it's just the clubs will do their utmost to ensure it isn't leaked into the media.

He is 28 and should know better, it is by no means a gravely serious matter but it shouldnt be swept under the rug either.

It won't be swept under the carpet......the club will discipline him in some way especially given past incidents and if any charges are laid he will face them with it getting a huge media blitz that any ordinary person would never face.

Like it or lump it, he is a role model, if he doesn’t want to be one, that’s fine. Not many people look up to the local plumber who earns 70K a year

Agreed and things like this when they leak out mean he faces a lot more exposure and negative publicity than any local plumber would and as I said above the club will certainly ensure he is punished for it.

I am sick of both arguments;

a) AFL footballers should be Jesus like figures
b) AFL footballers are just normal people like you and me

As usual its all about balance.

It certainly is and balance that up with the amount of publicity this gets compared to if it was a local plumber and you'll see they get a bigger punishment.

Perhaps another contribution to the continued flawed logic of the Australian psyche that alcohol abuse is harmless and a bit of fun?

I wouldn't say that as I wouldn't put this into some of the extreme alcohol abuse that goes on in this country every single day of the week but like a lot of things governments want to be seen to be doing something but in reality they don't want to reveal the true extent of the problem.

If you have a problem with this type of thing it's state and federal governments you should be addressing it with as they're very good at hiding the 'real problems' this country faces as unfortunately bringing them out into the open isn't a vote winner.

 

[dreamkillers]

Could I drag it back to the main Power board by asking if anyone has news about Brogan? Wasn't he supposed to go to court in October or November? Nothing in the local papers?

last I heard was that the case had been deferred but no idea to when and when that happened........given it's a court case we can pretty much be guaranteed when it goes to court it will be on the front page of the Adelaide paper.

 

[dreamkillers]

Is it ok if he did heroin or cocaine?

Not at all and there are much more serious consequences if it was.

If not, what is the difference?

The AFL player regulations and the law.

I would hazard a guess that alcohol abuse destroys more familles and lives than all the other drugs combined. Yet the abuse of it is socially acceptable. Very strange.

Agreed although the real effect of other drugs won't really be known for a number of years yet given all the new and different substances used in them.

If you want to blame anyone for it being socially acceptable it's the government/s as they really don't put the effort into things like this as they don't see it as a vote winner.......they are more interested in short term fixes/stunts that will win them the next election instead of putting real long term agendas into solving things for the long term.

Mods. I think its moved into the twilight zone.

It's very close.........

 

[morell]

Difference is alcohol is legal...
The last time I looked, heroin & cocaine is not...

Not at all and there are much more serious consequences if it was.

The AFL player regulations and the law.

So the severity of the issue is dependant on the regulations (which are greatly affected by how much tax the substance can earn the government rather than the health or criminal ramifications) that binds the substance in use rather than the severity of the issue itself?

Are you saying that if the government decides to regulate illicit drugs, AFL players should be free to use them, providing the AFL is ok with that as well? Silly assertion perhaps, but dope could conceivably be legalised.

Drug abuse is drug abuse, wether that drug is legal or not should not be the sole determining factor on what is socially acceptable and what isn’t. What should be a factor is how much influence that abuse is having on people lives – in the case of Cousins I would say very little, nonetheless, the accepting trend of many Australian's towards alcohol abuse is a major reason why it is such a scourge on society.

 

[morell]

Trivial isn't probably the way I would see it but these things happen at each and every AFL footy club and are generally hushed up if they can.

Absolutely, including ours, hence why we should be bringing this sort of stuff into the limelight, rather than shunning it.

If the allegations of what Farmer did are true I would hope he gets the appropriate punishment but we'll have to wait and see what actually happened before making judgement there.

I am not aware of this story so I will keep my big mouth shut on that one....

Correct but this latest incident is very minor compared to a couple of his pasts efforts and in this case most clubs would have players each year in the same situation.............it's just the clubs will do their utmost to ensure it isn't leaked into the media.

Sure. Still isn’t good enough for a professional athlete, If he wants to behave in such a manner, no dramas, can completely understand, join me and my mates down at the pub, along with our 9 till 5 jobs and piss poor pay.

If players want all the spoils of AFL and celebrity, they should have to put up with some of the restrictions as well. One of them is behaving in a manner which reflects well on your club.

It won't be swept under the carpet......the club will discipline him in some way especially given past incidents and if any charges are laid he will face them with it getting a huge media blitz that any ordinary person would never face.

Agreed and things like this when they leak out mean he faces a lot more exposure and negative publicity than any local plumber would and as I said above the club will certainly ensure he is punished for it.

Yeah agreed, I'm not saying he should be sacked/dropped or anything like that, but I also don’t think he should be free from criticism.

On the celebrity bit, the normal person doesn’t get paid 500k a year for kicking a football around an oval, or 10K for my picture to be on a weeties box. As I said, if he doesn’t want that, he absolutely has the choice to step down and become the aforementioned plumber aka Stuart Dew and Adrian DeLuca

I know which choice he, and I, would make.

I wouldn't say that as I wouldn't put this into some of the extreme alcohol abuse that goes on in this country every single day of the week but like a lot of things governments want to be seen to be doing something but in reality they don't want to reveal the true extent of the problem.

Absolutely. Cousins isn’t even the tip of the top of the tip of the iceberg.

If you have a problem with this type of thing it's state and federal governments you should be addressing it with as they're very good at hiding the 'real problems' this country faces as unfortunately bringing them out into the open isn't a vote winner.

Agreed, and have done so.

My thesis at uni was based on such matters >

"A spatial approach to identifying and creating key poverty indicators"

In other words, how do I display and highlight alcohol abuse (and other things) effectively on a map, its a good read of you can get you hands on it .

 

[morell]

Agreed although the real effect of other drugs won't really be known for a number of years yet given all the new and different substances used in them.

There is now a massive market for fresh, naturally grown dope (especially amongst the baby boomer generation) as responsible users are sick to death of speed laced dope messing with their heads.

Like normal dope is any better but that is a whole other argument …

If you want to blame anyone for it being socially acceptable it's the government/s as they really don't put the effort into things like this as they don't see it as a vote winner.......they are more interested in short term fixes/stunts that will win them the next election instead of putting real long term agendas into solving things for the long term.

One of the toughest things the authorities will face is swaying public opinion.

Nearly everyone has a relative or friend who they know drinks too much, hell I’ve got several, and yet it goes by without concern. The pissed larrikin is almost a hero, someone to look up too. How many times have you heard the “I could drink you under the table” argument? Check out the limbo club for more confirmation ...

Getting it into people heads that alcohol abuse can ******** you and your family up big time is not easy in the Aussie beer swilling on a hot day barbie culture.

Don’t get me started on underage drinking ...

 

[dreamkillers]

So the severity of the issue is dependant on the regulations (which are greatly affected by how much tax the substance can earn the government rather than the health or criminal ramifications) that binds the substance in use rather than the severity of the issue itself?

I can assure you the $ cost to society of legal drug abuse is much more than the taxes it brings in. If alcohol and cigarettes were made illegal all that would do is play into the hands of criminals who would exploit things and make lots of money for themselves as what happens with illegal drugs now as well as who knows what other things they would put into them which would be even more detrimental to the health of those that use them.

Are you saying that if the government decides to regulate illicit drugs, AFL players should be free to use them, providing the AFL is ok with that as well? Silly assertion perhaps, but dope could conceivably be legalised.

Not saying that at all but in a way if they were legalised they could be controlled a lot more than present given there is only 1 motivation for those that produce/sell them - make as much money as possible without looking at the consequences to those that use them...........

I know of at least half a dozen people that were in the same year as myself at high school many years ago that are no longer here due to the 'extra substances' put into drugs they used so the dealers made more money without any thought of the damage they do.

Drug abuse is drug abuse, wether that drug is legal or not should not be the sole determining factor on what is socially acceptable and what isn’t. What should be a factor is how much influence that abuse is having on people lives – in the case of Cousins I would say very little, nonetheless, the accepting trend of many Australian's towards alcohol abuse is a major reason why it is such a scourge on society.

I agree that drug abuse is drug abuse and not sure why you bring up being socially acceptable or not as you didn't reply to the rest of my post which I believe covers my thoughts on that.

Governments in this country traditionally are not interested in looking at long term problems like this as it won't win them votes from the 'sheep who only look at what personally affects them' who vote for them at each election. Unfortunately on top of this is big media outlets controlled by only a few people who again are only looking at the $$'s they can bring in and not about promoting 'real change' that would benefit all in the short, medium and long term.


Time to move this discussion to the twilight zone..........