Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Saint]

agree its a bit dumb to supply them and then complain they are being used.

dont supply them seems the wiser option?

They're legal in non-civilian areas. It's in civilian areas that it's acknowledged as a war crime.

(Which all of Gaza is). So Israel could have it stockpiled for use against Syria or Lebanon, but shouldn't be using it against Gazans civilians as they are.

 

[Kurve]

Yes it isn’t like the Nazis were just came out and did a press conference and said “yeah we are now doing a genocide!”, that isn’t the way these things work.

Kristallnacht or The Night of Broken Glass 10th November 1938, was the signal and the prelude to the Final Solution and the murder of six million Jews during the Holocuast.

The Nazi Party's SS, SA, Hitler Youth and German civilians attacked, Jews were beaten and murdered, their homes, businesses and synagogues ransacked and destroyed, thousands were taken and sent to death camps.

After the Nazis had conquered much of Europe including France, there was pressure on Churchill to come to an agreement with Hitler but Churchill understood with moral clarity, what they were dealing with and that the Nazi regime couldn't and shouldn't be accommodated or negotiated with, they had to be defeated. The reason he gave as key to this understanding was Kristallnacht.

You must be able to see why Israeli Jews would draw parallels to The Night of Broken Glass, if on a smaller scale thus far, yet bearing in mind Hamas is simply a proxy for Iran, and understand why alarm bells are going off and the western world is getting jumpy.

 

[Saint]

I don't think a ceasefire is realistic. Israel were invading the West Bank weekly before October 7th, there wasnt a ceasefire before, I don't expect one after.

I just wish Israel would be less barbaric and indiscriminately indifferent in their targetting. They're clearly just bombing everywhere and claiming everything/everyone is Hamas without a shred of evidence. They embarrassed themselves at the hospitals and should never be believed again.

They could take out Hamas without murdering 20,000 civilians. There's a reason they're being indiscriminate and it's the same reason behind why they have a nation in the first place.

If an Israel supporter asks: Do you believe Israel has the right to exist? The answer should be: I don't know, do YOU think one race/religion has the right to remove another from their territory by death and destruction?

 

[Saint]

Kristallnacht or The Night of Broken Glass 10th November 1938, was the signal and the prelude to the Final Solution and the murder of six million Jews during the Holocuast.

The Nazi Party's SS, SA, Hitler Youth and German civilians attacked, Jews were beaten and murdered, their homes, businesses and synagogues ransacked and destroyed, thousands were taken and sent to death camps.

After the Nazis had conquered much of Europe including France, there was pressure on Churchill to come to an agreement with Hitler but Churchill understood with moral clarity, what they were dealing with and that the Nazi regime couldn't and shouldn't be accommodated or negotiated with, they had to be defeated. The reason he gave as key to this understanding was Kristallnacht.

You must be able to see why Israeli Jews would draw parallels to The Night of Broken Glass if on a smaller scale thus far yet bearing in mind Hamas is simply a proxy for Iran and understand why alarm bells are going off and the western world is getting jumpy.

That all made sense right up until I realised you weren't talking about Settlers in the West Bank and the extermination of Palestinians. Israel is not actually under threat of extermination, even on October 7th, Hamas' objective was to get back to Gaza with hostages, not to continue to roll on to Tel Aviv.

Palestinians clearly are at risk of extermination. It might even be happening in front of our eyes.

 

[Kurve]

That all made sense right up until I realised you weren't talking about Settlers in the West Bank and the extermination of Palestinians. Israel is not actually under threat of extermination, even on October 7th, Hamas' objective was to get back to Gaza with hostages, not to continue to roll on to Tel Aviv.

The goal was to draw international condemnation against Israel for their response and force a wider conflict imo. We might be on the cusp of WWIII. Whether the allies of Hamas will follow through (as promised imo) remains to be seen.

Palestinians clearly are at risk of extermination. It might even be happening in front of our eyes.

I agree it's possibly a genocide.

However, I don't believe Israel is purposefully targeting women and children, Hamas fighters being difficult to distinguish given they've ditched their uniforms.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The goal was to draw international condemnation against Israel for their response and force a wider conflict imo. We might be on the cusp of WWIII. Whether the allies of Hamas will follow through (as promised imo) remains to be seen.



I agree it's possibly a genocide.

However, I don't believe Israel is purposefully targeting women and children, Hamas fighters being difficult to distinguish given they've ditched their uniforms.

agreed

People seemingly dont understand the exact definition of what constitues a war crime like genocide and why they are in turn hard to actually prove.

Killing civilians isn't a war crime in itself. It's the deliberate act in doing so which makes it one.

In saying that I'm pretty OK with Israel being investigated for committing war crimes. When that time eventually comes.

 

[PieLebo87]

Whether he let this happen or it was a welcome distraction, it’s very convenient. As far as fourth largest military force, the money that pours in from America makes it one of the biggest, I heard somewhere the fourth largest, not sure what that means though.

You’re not wrong. Old mate just likes to argue.

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[faible]

The goal was to draw international condemnation against Israel for their response and force a wider conflict imo. We might be on the cusp of WWIII. Whether the allies of Hamas will follow through (as promised imo) remains to be seen.



I agree it's possibly a genocide.

However, I don't believe Israel is purposefully targeting women and children, Hamas fighters being difficult to distinguish given they've ditched their uniforms.

You're normally a really good poster that I agree with, but geez I don't think I could disagree much harder with your conclusions here Kurve.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Yanks running out of equipment to donate to the slaughter?

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[Saint]

The goal was to draw international condemnation against Israel for their response and force a wider conflict imo. We might be on the cusp of WWIII. Whether the allies of Hamas will follow through (as promised imo) remains to be seen.



I agree it's possibly a genocide.

However, I don't believe Israel is purposefully targeting women and children, Hamas fighters being difficult to distinguish given they've ditched their uniforms.

Cusp of WW3? Who against? Israel could sort out most of the Middle East, militarily, and the US carrier group in the area could too. Turkey is probably the only proximate country who might pose a serious threat to Israel and they're a long way from starting that war.

 

[schneebly111]

Who against? Israel could sort out most of the Middle East, militarily,

Israel are only good at bombing and harassing mostly unarmed Palestinians.

The last time they went up against another proper armed force was Lebanon 2006. They failed to achieve their objectives, took more casualties than they expected and had to withdraw.

 

[Kurve]

You're normally a really good poster that I agree with, but geez I don't think I could disagree much harder with your conclusions here Kurve.

It's okay to disagree with me

 

[Kurve]

Yanks running out of equipment to donate to the slaughter?

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The last time they went up against another proper armed force was Lebanon 2006. They failed to achieve their objectives, took more casualties than they expected and had to withdraw.

Cusp of WW3? Who against? Israel could sort out most of the Middle East, militarily, and the US carrier group in the area could too. Turkey is probably the only proximate country who might pose a serious threat to Israel and they're a long way from starting that war.

Really.

World Wars aren't fought between proximate countries.

 

[Roby]

So what is the difference between the censorship in China and Russia and Israel?

Oh that’s right Israel claims to be a democratic country.

Israel is more like North Korea.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Really.

World Wars aren't fought between proximate countries.

But they start between them, even if one has no desire to participate.

 

[Roby]

From memory the defence minister was too busy pushing for settler incursions in the West Bank to keep his eye on the ball in Gaza.

From memory? Israel just approved about 1200 new illegal settlements in the West Bank last week, in amidst of a "war".

 

[Roby]

You must be able to see why Israeli Jews would draw parallels to The Night of Broken Glass if on a smaller scale thus far yet bearing in mind Hamas is simply a proxy for Iran and understand why alarm bells are going off and the western world is getting jumpy.

There's one big difference.

The Jews did nothing wrong and pure idiotic racism let to the Nazi Genocide.

On the other hand, the retaliation from Palestinians is from the idiotic racist fuelled Zionism.

If Israel thinks it's "safe" now, and October 7th won't happen again, they're really, really, dumb. Something worse is coming.

 

[Kurve]

But they start between them, even if one has no desire to participate.

We're already almost there. With Russia as a superpower in the US backed Ukraine, with the US backed Israel punding Gaza and which we would all agree in it's own right, is powerful and uses significantly advanced technology and weapons, a strengthened Hezbollah itching for a fight and the Houthis weighing in. All we need is for Iran to come out of the shadows to make a direct move.

I personally hope the revolution rises again within Iran and with greater force to keep them occupied.

 

[Kurve]

If Israel thinks it's "safe" now, and October 7th won't happen again, they're really, really, dumb. Something worse is coming.

Of course because Hamas leadership have actually said that October 7th was simply an appetiser.

 

[Al Heimer]

Israel is more like North Korea.

Both countries have official spokespeople that are mirror images of each other. That ex aussie Mark Regev is a tremendous bullshitter for the Israeli govt and IDF.

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[Jello_B]

That all made sense right up until I realised you weren't talking about Settlers in the West Bank and the extermination of Palestinians. Israel is not actually under threat of extermination, even on October 7th, Hamas' objective was to get back to Gaza with hostages, not to continue to roll on to Tel Aviv.

Palestinians clearly are at risk of extermination. It might even be happening in front of our eyes.

Haha heck me I read the first part of this post and thought that Kurve was talking about Palestinians in Gaza being analogous with the Jews in the night of the broken glass. Then got distracted came back and have read your post, talk about my double-take just now.
Comparing the threat by Hamas and Nazis to Jewish people, bizarre.

 

[Roby]

Of course because Hamas leadership have actually said that October 7th was simply an appetiser.

Yes, and this is correct. The last two months by the Israeli Terrorist Organisation have shown that.

 

[Jello_B]

Yerba Mate!

Actually once upon a time a lot of pingers used to come from Israel. Dunno about these days.

Yellow doves!

 

[Kurve]

Haha * me I read the first part of this post and thought that Kurve was talking about Palestinians in Gaza being analogous with the Jews in the night of the broken glass. Then got distracted came back and have read your post, talk about my double-take just now.
Comparing the threat by Hamas and Nazis to Jewish people, bizarre.

Read it again with less excitement maybe

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[Jello_B]

The goal was to draw international condemnation against Israel for their response and force a wider conflict imo. We might be on the cusp of WWIII. Whether the allies of Hamas will follow through (as promised imo) remains to be seen.



I agree it's possibly a genocide.

However, I don't believe Israel is purposefully targeting women and children, Hamas fighters being difficult to distinguish given they've ditched their uniforms.

agreed

People seemingly dont understand the exact definition of what constitues a war crime like genocide and why they are in turn hard to actually prove.

Killing civilians isn't a war crime in itself. It's the deliberate act in doing so which makes it one.

In saying that I'm pretty OK with Israel being investigated for committing war crimes. When that time eventually comes.

“On purpose” or “deliberate” is highly subjective and you’d need to be a mind reader. heck even Hamas could argue “we didn’t mean to” and “we’ve got a few bad eggs in the team don’t tar us all”.
What should matter more is that Israel have actually killed a whole bunch of innocent people and have demonstrated minimal to no care in not killing those people. Parents are still watching their children being dismembered by Israeli weapons.