ElliottsMaggies
Norm Smith Medallist
- Mar 28, 2023
- 7,892
- 15,554
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Yep, I'd say the Hawks supporters want to see goals from Ginni. They're not going to be happy with just a dozen kicks & handballs up the field every week.
Player Watch Lachie Schultz
- Thread starter TradeDraft
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I said the exact same thing after the trade, and after the trade period. It was a terrible trade period considering what we paid for Schultz and what we received for Ginnivan.
jathanas
Premium Platinum
There are different trains of thought regarding Ginnivan but my view is that his papers were stamped.
He couldn't cement a spot in the best 22 last year and had a crap GF (if Adams was fit, Ginni wouldn't play). I suspect he had lost the coach and that was all his attitude.
The jury is still out on Lachie, IMO. You might be right about him but that will have to play out.
Are you seriously saying career averages don't matter? So I guess someone like Schultz who is a late pickup and late bloomer should be valued higher than talented first rounders like Pickett and Weightman that come in and immediately have an impact and average more goals than Schultz has in his last two years?
Even if we again move the goalposts to the last two years, most of those players you highlighted were still better over that time. Stengle was bloody AA with 50+ goals in 2022! Something Schultz has never come close to. And averaged the same number of goals per game as Schultz in his career best 2023 season. Pickett and Weightman both outscored Schultz over the last two seasons. Hill won the Norm Smith last year. Stringer and Zurhaar less so but still had similar goals per match averages whilst also rating elite in clearances as they were used as rotating mids.
How many times do you need to keep moving the goalposts to finally realise your claim that Schultz is top 10-15% elite is just all BS.
Just to be clear, I think Schultz is a good player. He's an above average forward and he'll be cemented in our best 22.
I just think the trade cost was outrageous for just a good small forward.
Spiral_Out
Team Captain
Just to be clear, Schultz is a lock in our 22 for the next 5+ years.
First rounders breaking into the 22 of a top 8 side by the age of 21 is 50/50 at best, so a first rounder + 3 years development, pick 34 and a future first is the right price, not overs and not unders.
He will play 100 games for us, just to be clear, here is what can happen in the first round + picks around 34:
2012: Pick 19 Kennedy, Pick 20 Broomhead, Pick 38 Ramsay
2013: Pick 6 Scharenberg, Pick 10 Freeman
etc etc, all of those guys combined I don't think played even 50 games, Schultz will play 100, just to be clear.
- Aug 3, 2020
- 18,722
- 31,028
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Boston Celtics, Liverpool
Hilarious inability to comprehend pretty simple posts. Your constant whinging about the trade we made was not what we agreed to because of Schultz's career.
Stengle was better in 2022 then worse in 2023 (bit easier to get going as a small in a good team). I'd prefer Schultz's ball-winning and tackling over the 0.3-4 goals per game more Weightman & Pickett kicked last season. Hill did win the Norm Smith, Schultz still had better years in 22 & 23. Zuurhaar averaged more clearances, but less goals, tackles & marks. Stringer averaged less disposals, goals, marks & tackles. How impressive!
You’ve made this clear. How many more times do you want to say the same thing?
We get it.
Another reason why Ugene's were always picked on at school
I reckon Schultz has been fine in comparison to the rest of the side. I also think if we were winning, our ball movement and midfield dominance would make every player play and look better. His stats for a small forward are pretty good. He improves when the whole side improves
Maggie5
Moderator
- Moderator
- #611
I think that first round players often play immediately. Times have changed.
I wonder how many first round picks played on the weekend?
It is too early to judge Schultz but nothing wrong to question what was given up for him.
We haven't exactly been experts at trading in the recent past.
I suspect we likely would have drafted a player in the same mould as Lachie Schultz with the first rounder we traded, and unless we finish bottom four this year, which I personally think is unlikely, then getting a player of Schultz’s quality would’ve been good return from that pick. He’ll probably play at least 100 games in the black and white.
It’s along those lines that I don’t reckon us losing our first rounder this year is the absolute end of the world, as some have made out. I do think we should hang onto our draft stocks now from this point out, but Schultz was actually decent list management still, IMO.
It’s along those lines that I don’t reckon us losing our first rounder this year is the absolute end of the world, as some have made out. I do think we should hang onto our draft stocks now from this point out, but Schultz was actually decent list management still, IMO.
Agree. I didn’t mind Ginni when he was switched on, but he is now being significantly overrated on here purely due to our poor start, which he wouldn’t have changed one bit.
Good luck to Ginni, but Lachie is and will be a significantly better player for us over the next five years without all of the headaches.
First round players do play early. The actual “first” round players that everyone associates with a first round pick. They are those selected in the top 10. Outside that, the talent drops off a cliff and they take longer, if at all. Generally, there are exceptions obviously. Which is why I don’t believe in this “first round pick” hype. Especially with academy, fs, NGA, diluting it even more
Schultz will play 100 games for us? Where do you get that crystal ball? What if he gets a couple of knee injuries like Scharenberg or reoccuring hamstring injuries like Freeman? What if his form drops off significantly in the future and he gets overtaken by younger players like Medhurst?
Clear best 22 players like Paul Medhurst, Luke Ball, Adam Treloar, Levi Greenwood and Travis Varcoe all joined Pies at a similar age as Schultz. None of them made it to 100 games with us.
Spiral_Out
Team Captain
The difference between Schultz and all of those players is their hamstrings, every single player you mentioned previously had issues with their hamstrings before joining us.
Every. Single. One.
Treloar played 90 something games with us and would have played well over 100 if he wasn't a greedy grub like Grundy.
We gave up 2 first round picks and got a second round back for Treloar.....
Schultz has literally never even had an injury, touch wood.
He will play until he's 32ish, 6 seasons @ average of 20 games = 120 games
He's in the top 5-10% of the hardest position in the league and will play 100 games, if that's not worth what we gave up then wtf is, people think you can give up picks in the 30's for someone like Schultz who is in their prime? lol
The irony of you bringing up sharenberg and freeman when all you have done is harp on about round 1 draft picks.
"What we agreed to"? Mate I have no idea what you're trying to agree to as you keep moving the goal posts. You went from rating Schultz as a top 15% small forward to taking issue at comparing him against medium forwards that mark and hybrid forwards that can do everything to then having to include a massive list of "medium forwards" to rank him against to now stating you're only looking at the last 2 seasons even though half that list was only drafted in the last 2 seasons
At this point I get it. You're just too embarrassed to admit you can't back up your top 15% elite claim and your fragile ego can't handle it so I'll save you from further embarrassment and stop calling you out.
On a separate note, Cody Weightman looked pretty good today with a gamebreaking 6 goals. I look forward to Schultz playing way better for us given he's obviously on another tier. You should probably go on the Main Board and remind everyone that Shultz is elite whilst Weightman shouldn't even be discussed on the same level as him.
Top 5-10% of hardest position in the league... Wow!
Out of interest, how do you rate Hill and Elliott?
jmac70
On the porch
You really need to give it a rest.
sr36
Hall of Famer
I want to see him celebrate to the crowd and have all the Hawks get around him when he lays his first tackle in Brown and Gold. What round do you think it'll be?
The irony of not realising my post was in direct response to Spiral Outs post calling out Scharenberg and Freeman as examples of how draft picks can fail and my response was to show trades can just as easily fail.
jmac70
On the porch
But you have all the answers?
ElliottsMaggies
Norm Smith Medallist
- Mar 28, 2023
- 7,892
- 15,554
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Hopefully it's not round 4.
