GeeCats07
Club Legend
2019? And that would be if they started soon, which they won't be.
Teams Las Vegas Raiders - The Black Hole
- Thread starter Burzum
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Sep 6, 2005
- 145,158
- 95,017
- AFL Club
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GeeCats07
Club Legend
Could watch that play all day. And I do!
- Sep 6, 2005
- 145,158
- 95,017
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Sep 6, 2005
- 145,158
- 95,017
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Patrick Bates might have been a bust, but he smelled the rot with the Raiders a long time ago
No Longer a Raider, and No Longer Miserable
By THOMAS GEORGE, Published: May 21, 1996
ATLANTA— It takes only a couple of seconds to see that Patrick Bates is a tall and talented free safety, that he is a big man with a clear and resonant voice. It takes only a couple of minutes to see that Patrick Bates is an intelligent, independent thinker. Independent thinking is everything with Bates.
It takes more than a couple of seconds or a couple of minutes, however, to understand why.
To understand how Bates, on the cusp of a sparkling pro football career with the Oakland Raiders, could simply quit. Walk out. Retire from the game. He was drafted in the first round from Texas A&M by the Raiders in 1993. He was the 12th player selected, and with that came great promise and great financial rewards. But Bates was a Raider for the '93 and '94 seasons, and after the preseason in '95, he split.
He is back in the game now. He is an Atlanta Falcon.
He was miserable as a Raider. The Raiders tried to get him back, tried to coax him to join them during last season -- and Bates considered it -- but, no, he stayed away and hoped they would trade him. Finally, they did, last month to the Falcons. He signed a three-year deal and accepted less money to become a Falcon.
"You cannot do a job effectively if you have misery going on," Bates said about his time as a Raider. "If anyone gets to the point in their life where their job is miserable, I would say they need to carefully evaluate that situation. That's what I did. I took a year to get my feet underneath me and to reflect on my life outside of football. I looked through the years. Now I am in a place with the Falcons where there are real cats, real dudes, real people. It's a comfort. This is where I belong."
This is where he has been.
He grew up in Galveston, a city off the Gulf of Mexico near Houston. Galveston is on a barrier island, "a town with beaches, and a harbor and longshoremen, a nice community," Bates said. He is fond of his hometown even though a few bitter memories reside there.
Jean, his mother, was an alcoholic who used to repeatedly threaten that she would turn her children over to state care. One day, Bates said, when he was about 2 years old, his sister about 6 months old and his brother 7 years old, she did. She called, and social workers came, but a neighbor grabbed Patrick and said that he was his father. He took Patrick Bates to his home. Into foster care went Patrick's sister, Sonia Nicole, and his brother, Jarvis.
"By the grace of God, I went into a loving home, to a lady who I would call my grandmother, Isabel Singleton, who raised me," Bates said. "I have a tattoo in remembrance of her on my left arm. She was 58. She had already raised seven sons and one daughter. My sister went into a foster home. But my brother, Jarvis, he was in and out of youth centers. He would run away from every one, from Galveston to Houston to Corpus Christi."
Patrick Bates's father left town when Patrick was in the seventh grade, and Patrick never heard from him again; he does not know if his father is dead or alive. Bates did not see his sister again until he was a senior in high school. His grandmother and mother died within a month of each other during his first year at U.C.L.A., which was a big reason he transferred to Texas A&M for his sophomore and junior years of college. He wanted to be closer to what little family he had left.
And finally, there was his brother, Jarvis.
"I was a junior in high school and I was having lunch one day and a girl ran in and screamed, 'Patrick, your brother was just shot!' " Bates said. "We all ran out of the cafeteria about two blocks away and there he was. I saw him on the ground and everything. He was dead when I got there. They had him in what we called a warm suit, trying to heat his body while they tried to revive him. But it was over. Some stupid argument with some young kid and he was shot dead. And my brother was young -- he was 22."
Bates, who entered the pro draft as a junior in 1993, is 25 now. He had been swept into the arms of a loving home that day when the social workers came. His brother, he said, never had a chance. Never had a home. Never had love. It could have been him, Bates said. But he had a substitute grandmother, who taught him to be an independent thinker. Not to follow, but to lead. Who taught him decision-making and responsibility.
"I know right from wrong, and no one can lead me anywhere I don't want to go," Bates said. "I've seen it. I know what can happen. I did not have my first drink until I was a sophomore in college. No one was going to get me to cut class, to sell drugs, to make mistakes with girls. If it wasn't right, I wasn't going to do it. I won't say I've never made a mistake, but some things you will never see me involved in. When I see something bad, I don't go in that direction."
He saw plenty bad with the Raiders. He saw a team, a franchise, that was stuck in a time warp. He saw players who did not respect each other or their coaches. He saw coaches who did not respect each other or their players.
"I saw a lot of old heads in the locker room who were used to doing things their way, and when you spoke up for change, for winning, they looked at you like you were crazy," Bates said. "And then the staff treated me that way. I truly believed I was the best player at my position and the Raiders just jerked me around, in and out, from starter to backup. I didn't understand it. They didn't understand it. What I saw was a place where there were a lot of Indians and every one of them thought they were the chief."
The Raiders expressed their view of the situation in a statement: "Playing for the Raiders takes a special type of player blending talent, character and will to win. Unfortunately, it didn't work for Patrick."
He sought solace outside the locker room and turned to music and to rapper friends including Warren G. and Snoop Doggy Dogg. The Raiders did not like that.
"Anyone who says I left football because I was more interested in music is wrong," Bates said. "And it wasn't Al Davis, either. Al picked me in the draft. He would talk to me at practice. I remember when I bought my first Mercedes. He said: 'Bates, nice car. I bought that car.' He tapped his chest. We laughed.
"No, what happened there was it was a miserable atmosphere, and I wanted no part of it. It was tense and tight. Some of it I did not handle well. On dealing with it, on some of it, I got bad advice from my representation. But the Raiders have added Bruce Allen to their front office in personnel and I think things are changing there. Maybe they are on to something now. I think they are beginning to realize that in free agency this is a new marketplace and that you can't stockpile and play mind games with people. In free agency, guys will just leave. The real players on your team have to play and you have to build trust all around."
During his time away from pro football, Bates worked on starting a new record company with his close friend and former college teammate, Kevin Smith, a Dallas Cowboy cornerback. He also came more to grips with his childhood and with his family.
The Cowboys wanted him badly. The Falcons got the prize, the word Falcons Coach June Jones used to describe Bates.
In the Falcon minicamp last week, Bates, who is 6 feet 3 inches and weighs 220 pounds, glowed.
"We picked 10th in the '93 draft and Bates went at 12," Jones said. "We nearly took him then. I can't believe we got him now for a second-round pick to the Raiders. He has more ability than any safety I've seen. Despite his size, he could actually play cornerback. He may be 220 pounds and play safety, but he runs a 4.4 40-yard sprint and he can turn and cover. He makes big hits. He works hard on everything.
"Whatever happened with him with the Raiders, all we see is a bright, hard-working, talented kid. I cannot believe that we could get this lucky. I wake up in the morning and say, 'What's the deal here? This guy is a great potential All-Pro.' "
Bates is ready for football now in a new, fresh, comfortable place. He is hungry. The Falcons last season were 9-7, lost four road games on the final play, made the playoffs, became the first team in National Football League history to produce four 1,000-yard players on offense, but allowed the most passing yards of any N.F.L. team.
"I want to stay healthy, first," Bates said, vowing that the Falcon secondary will not be as porous as this past season, "and if I do, and with a little help, I promise you now that won't happen again. Uh-uh, no way, no how. That is something I will not choose."
---
Safety Patrick Bates, the first-round pick in 1993 who walked out on the Raiders after the 1995 preseason, took less money to become a Falcon.
Patrick Bates quit football rather than play for the Raiders. Now a Falcon, he said, "This is where I belong."
---
No Longer a Raider, and No Longer Miserable
By THOMAS GEORGE, Published: May 21, 1996
ATLANTA— It takes only a couple of seconds to see that Patrick Bates is a tall and talented free safety, that he is a big man with a clear and resonant voice. It takes only a couple of minutes to see that Patrick Bates is an intelligent, independent thinker. Independent thinking is everything with Bates.
It takes more than a couple of seconds or a couple of minutes, however, to understand why.
To understand how Bates, on the cusp of a sparkling pro football career with the Oakland Raiders, could simply quit. Walk out. Retire from the game. He was drafted in the first round from Texas A&M by the Raiders in 1993. He was the 12th player selected, and with that came great promise and great financial rewards. But Bates was a Raider for the '93 and '94 seasons, and after the preseason in '95, he split.
He is back in the game now. He is an Atlanta Falcon.
He was miserable as a Raider. The Raiders tried to get him back, tried to coax him to join them during last season -- and Bates considered it -- but, no, he stayed away and hoped they would trade him. Finally, they did, last month to the Falcons. He signed a three-year deal and accepted less money to become a Falcon.
"You cannot do a job effectively if you have misery going on," Bates said about his time as a Raider. "If anyone gets to the point in their life where their job is miserable, I would say they need to carefully evaluate that situation. That's what I did. I took a year to get my feet underneath me and to reflect on my life outside of football. I looked through the years. Now I am in a place with the Falcons where there are real cats, real dudes, real people. It's a comfort. This is where I belong."
This is where he has been.
He grew up in Galveston, a city off the Gulf of Mexico near Houston. Galveston is on a barrier island, "a town with beaches, and a harbor and longshoremen, a nice community," Bates said. He is fond of his hometown even though a few bitter memories reside there.
Jean, his mother, was an alcoholic who used to repeatedly threaten that she would turn her children over to state care. One day, Bates said, when he was about 2 years old, his sister about 6 months old and his brother 7 years old, she did. She called, and social workers came, but a neighbor grabbed Patrick and said that he was his father. He took Patrick Bates to his home. Into foster care went Patrick's sister, Sonia Nicole, and his brother, Jarvis.
"By the grace of God, I went into a loving home, to a lady who I would call my grandmother, Isabel Singleton, who raised me," Bates said. "I have a tattoo in remembrance of her on my left arm. She was 58. She had already raised seven sons and one daughter. My sister went into a foster home. But my brother, Jarvis, he was in and out of youth centers. He would run away from every one, from Galveston to Houston to Corpus Christi."
Patrick Bates's father left town when Patrick was in the seventh grade, and Patrick never heard from him again; he does not know if his father is dead or alive. Bates did not see his sister again until he was a senior in high school. His grandmother and mother died within a month of each other during his first year at U.C.L.A., which was a big reason he transferred to Texas A&M for his sophomore and junior years of college. He wanted to be closer to what little family he had left.
And finally, there was his brother, Jarvis.
"I was a junior in high school and I was having lunch one day and a girl ran in and screamed, 'Patrick, your brother was just shot!' " Bates said. "We all ran out of the cafeteria about two blocks away and there he was. I saw him on the ground and everything. He was dead when I got there. They had him in what we called a warm suit, trying to heat his body while they tried to revive him. But it was over. Some stupid argument with some young kid and he was shot dead. And my brother was young -- he was 22."
Bates, who entered the pro draft as a junior in 1993, is 25 now. He had been swept into the arms of a loving home that day when the social workers came. His brother, he said, never had a chance. Never had a home. Never had love. It could have been him, Bates said. But he had a substitute grandmother, who taught him to be an independent thinker. Not to follow, but to lead. Who taught him decision-making and responsibility.
"I know right from wrong, and no one can lead me anywhere I don't want to go," Bates said. "I've seen it. I know what can happen. I did not have my first drink until I was a sophomore in college. No one was going to get me to cut class, to sell drugs, to make mistakes with girls. If it wasn't right, I wasn't going to do it. I won't say I've never made a mistake, but some things you will never see me involved in. When I see something bad, I don't go in that direction."
He saw plenty bad with the Raiders. He saw a team, a franchise, that was stuck in a time warp. He saw players who did not respect each other or their coaches. He saw coaches who did not respect each other or their players.
"I saw a lot of old heads in the locker room who were used to doing things their way, and when you spoke up for change, for winning, they looked at you like you were crazy," Bates said. "And then the staff treated me that way. I truly believed I was the best player at my position and the Raiders just jerked me around, in and out, from starter to backup. I didn't understand it. They didn't understand it. What I saw was a place where there were a lot of Indians and every one of them thought they were the chief."
The Raiders expressed their view of the situation in a statement: "Playing for the Raiders takes a special type of player blending talent, character and will to win. Unfortunately, it didn't work for Patrick."
He sought solace outside the locker room and turned to music and to rapper friends including Warren G. and Snoop Doggy Dogg. The Raiders did not like that.
"Anyone who says I left football because I was more interested in music is wrong," Bates said. "And it wasn't Al Davis, either. Al picked me in the draft. He would talk to me at practice. I remember when I bought my first Mercedes. He said: 'Bates, nice car. I bought that car.' He tapped his chest. We laughed.
"No, what happened there was it was a miserable atmosphere, and I wanted no part of it. It was tense and tight. Some of it I did not handle well. On dealing with it, on some of it, I got bad advice from my representation. But the Raiders have added Bruce Allen to their front office in personnel and I think things are changing there. Maybe they are on to something now. I think they are beginning to realize that in free agency this is a new marketplace and that you can't stockpile and play mind games with people. In free agency, guys will just leave. The real players on your team have to play and you have to build trust all around."
During his time away from pro football, Bates worked on starting a new record company with his close friend and former college teammate, Kevin Smith, a Dallas Cowboy cornerback. He also came more to grips with his childhood and with his family.
The Cowboys wanted him badly. The Falcons got the prize, the word Falcons Coach June Jones used to describe Bates.
In the Falcon minicamp last week, Bates, who is 6 feet 3 inches and weighs 220 pounds, glowed.
"We picked 10th in the '93 draft and Bates went at 12," Jones said. "We nearly took him then. I can't believe we got him now for a second-round pick to the Raiders. He has more ability than any safety I've seen. Despite his size, he could actually play cornerback. He may be 220 pounds and play safety, but he runs a 4.4 40-yard sprint and he can turn and cover. He makes big hits. He works hard on everything.
"Whatever happened with him with the Raiders, all we see is a bright, hard-working, talented kid. I cannot believe that we could get this lucky. I wake up in the morning and say, 'What's the deal here? This guy is a great potential All-Pro.' "
Bates is ready for football now in a new, fresh, comfortable place. He is hungry. The Falcons last season were 9-7, lost four road games on the final play, made the playoffs, became the first team in National Football League history to produce four 1,000-yard players on offense, but allowed the most passing yards of any N.F.L. team.
"I want to stay healthy, first," Bates said, vowing that the Falcon secondary will not be as porous as this past season, "and if I do, and with a little help, I promise you now that won't happen again. Uh-uh, no way, no how. That is something I will not choose."
---
Safety Patrick Bates, the first-round pick in 1993 who walked out on the Raiders after the 1995 preseason, took less money to become a Falcon.
Patrick Bates quit football rather than play for the Raiders. Now a Falcon, he said, "This is where I belong."
---
Heard we are looking at Blalock just in case.
manureid
Laziest Poster on Figbooty
*checks date/year.
Last years model.
manureid
Laziest Poster on Figbooty
Sorry, was replying to GGs article.
Works both ways.
Richardson stands to make more money from his former team than from the Raiders in 2015, if his grievance against the Colts is successful. The day after Richardson was released by Indianapolis, the NFL Players Association filed a grievance on his behalf for $3,184,062 - the value of the final season on his four-year, $20,489,796, fully guaranteed rookie contract.
Indianapolis does not think Richardson is due the money because he was suspended at the time of his release. The Colts suspended Richardson for not notifying the team promptly about his absence from the walkthrough on the day before Indianapolis played the New England Patriots in the AFC Championship Game. Richardson has said he was dealing with a family medical emergency.
Richardson said he thinks his weight also played a part in the suspension. He was fined 14 times for weighing in at more than 227 pounds.
"We had made an agreement where I'd weigh 230 pounds, but it turns out that I was supposed to be 227 pounds and they didn't tell me that," Richardson said. "We've got a list of things we can use against the Colts where I can get my money back. They were fining me for failing to meet conduct code. Not making weight is not conduct code."
Indianapolis does not think Richardson is due the money because he was suspended at the time of his release. The Colts suspended Richardson for not notifying the team promptly about his absence from the walkthrough on the day before Indianapolis played the New England Patriots in the AFC Championship Game. Richardson has said he was dealing with a family medical emergency.
Richardson said he thinks his weight also played a part in the suspension. He was fined 14 times for weighing in at more than 227 pounds.
"We had made an agreement where I'd weigh 230 pounds, but it turns out that I was supposed to be 227 pounds and they didn't tell me that," Richardson said. "We've got a list of things we can use against the Colts where I can get my money back. They were fining me for failing to meet conduct code. Not making weight is not conduct code."
GeeCats07
Club Legend
I think this is a ridiculous article. The thing about a players QBR not progressing from their rookie year is interesting but surely you have to take his supporting cast (which was woeful) before saying he won't improve.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...lace-derek-carr-marcus-mariota-2015-nfl-draft
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...lace-derek-carr-marcus-mariota-2015-nfl-draft
I saw that too. Its just rubbish.
In other Raiders' notes:
- The Raiders have a need at guard and the Eagles are shopping Evan Mathis. An NFL source said the Raiders have no current plans of pursuing a trade for Mathis.
GeeCats07
Club Legend
Mathis, First and Second this year and First and Second next year for pick 4.
Wait to see if Super Mario is still available @ 4
TennisPlayerAndy
Game #6 Klay
- Apr 1, 2008
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Cooper?
The only reason we would take Mariota would be to on sell him.
Unless Williams is still there the pick has to be Cooper. Was in a NFL type offence and should be ready to go for us.
Chewy has already got him in the BF mock.
Unless Williams is still there the pick has to be Cooper. Was in a NFL type offence and should be ready to go for us.
Chewy has already got him in the BF mock.
TennisPlayerAndy
Game #6 Klay
- Apr 1, 2008
- 57,841
- 101,944
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Liverpool, Raiders, GSW, QPR, NYM
If Williams is there, many laughs will be had.
manureid
Laziest Poster on Figbooty
Yeh, Williams if still there, Cooper if not.
- Sep 6, 2005
- 145,158
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- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Perhaps Reggie truly doesn't value Wide Receivers. Doesn't think they're worth drafting high. He's all about the lines, it appears. Perhaps we'll see Reggie draft a WR in the 5th-7th round, and bring in another few UDFA WRs.
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There's some evidence that this is true. In his 2.5 drafts, Reggie hasn't drafted an O skill player higher than the fifth round, with the exception of Tyler Wilson and Derek Carr.
It's a tendency. I hope he breaks pattern and drafts Cooper. Maybe Mark will make him do it, as I suspect he did with Derek Carr.
------------------
There's some evidence that this is true. In his 2.5 drafts, Reggie hasn't drafted an O skill player higher than the fifth round, with the exception of Tyler Wilson and Derek Carr.
It's a tendency. I hope he breaks pattern and drafts Cooper. Maybe Mark will make him do it, as I suspect he did with Derek Carr.
There are some ok WRs that may drop to the 2nd round. Perriman has good size & is fast.
- Sep 6, 2005
- 145,158
- 95,017
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
I think we should go defense in the first round. I like Beasley if we move Mack to DE we can have Beasley play Slb and then move to DE on passing downs with Mack on the other side with Tuck and Antionio Smith inside. That is a scary Defensive line.
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agree...plenty receivers in the bottom of the 1st, top of the 2nd, etc to choose from
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agree...plenty receivers in the bottom of the 1st, top of the 2nd, etc to choose from
- Sep 6, 2005
- 145,158
- 95,017
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Wiz almost gets pushed back into the hole.
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I was looking for something negative to say about that play. You actually found it! Kudos!
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good observation. wiz svcks. legacy or not, unbiased assessment says good riddance.
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Sad cuz Wiz was part of a double team it looked like and he still got pushed back. Yet some still try to say we should have just paid Wiz cuz he was 'elite'
