LCHF- Low Carb / High-Healthy Fat lifestyle.

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evo said:
Over the next decade or so the scientific evidence will become so overwhelming that even the most stubborn nutritionists, doctors and sundry health writers will have to admit they were mistaken/misled.
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Unless they've all taken their own advice & died from overeating carbs!

Banks are getting sued/lawsuits slapped at them for giving bad investment advice,
wander if the same will happen in the health industry from the obese population?
 
evo said:
Over the next decade or so the scientific evidence will become so overwhelming that even the most stubborn nutritionists, doctors and sundry health writers will have to admit they were mistaken/misled.
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From the BMJ

http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g7654

I find it quite hard to believe any form of science that makes claims based on human behaviour, especially given people's infinite capacity to lie. Nutrition(ism) should be viewed as a social science, not a hard science.
 

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clogged said:
From the BMJ

http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g7654

I find it quite hard to believe any form of science that makes claims based on human behaviour, especially given people's infinite capacity to lie. Nutrition(ism) should be viewed as a social science, not a hard science.
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Haha, i loved the footnote.

"Footnotes
  • Competing interests: RS is chair of the Cochrane Library Oversight Committee and heavier than he once was and would like to be.
 
evo said:
Over the next decade or so the scientific evidence will become so overwhelming that even the most stubborn nutritionists, doctors and sundry health writers will have to admit they were mistaken/misled.
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Scientific evidence doesn't always equate to changes in behavior, sadly. People will hold onto bias even in the face of overwhelming evidence - and there is already enough evidence now to suggest higher fat, lower carb diets are far healthier than the average western diet.

e.g. people still generally ice sprains, some easily preventable diseases are on the rise for the first time in decades due to the anti-vacc movement (even measles in the US!), see the climate change 'debate', etc
 
clogged said:
From the BMJ

http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g7654

I find it quite hard to believe any form of science that makes claims based on human behaviour, especially given people's infinite capacity to lie. Nutrition(ism) should be viewed as a social science, not a hard science.
Click to expand...
I don't know know what nutritionism is, but I reckon nutrition can definitely be assessed scientifically.
AFAICT, in the end, most of it comes down to the manipulation of four hormones: insulin, cortisol, ghrelin and leptin.

As far as behaviourism goes, I guess you could argue either way whether it's a social science or a hard science.
 
Mofra said:
Scientific evidence doesn't always equate to changes in behavior, sadly. People will hold onto bias even in the face of overwhelming evidence - and there is already enough evidence now to suggest higher fat, lower carb diets are far healthier than the average western diet.

e.g. people still generally ice sprains, some easily preventable diseases are on the rise for the first time in decades due to the anti-vacc movement (even measles in the US!), see the climate change 'debate', etc
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In the end it will come down which way the governments go. Ancel Keys influence of low fat hard carb reccomendations ultimately became the standard western diet. It will take another Ancel Keys to change the food pyramid. On top of that, the main thing that is stopping a change in the food pyramid is the massive agri-businesses that have revolved around growing wheat,corn, and soy. They are going to be powerful lobbies to combat.
 
evo said:
In the end it will come down which way the governments go. Ancel Keys influence of low fat hard carb reccomendations ultimately became the standard western diet. It will take another Ancel Keys to change the food pyramid. On top of that, the main thing that is stopping a change in the food pyramid is the massive agri-businesses that have revolved around growing wheat,corn, and soy. They are going to be powerful lobbies to combat.
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Keys was responsible for the original Mediterranean diet from the seven countries study, and as mentioned in that article above only 8 young males were studied from Crete, and Greece was studied in Lent.
 
evo said:
I don't know know what nutritionism is, but I reckon nutrition can definitely be assessed scientifically.
AFAICT, in the end, most of it comes down to the manipulation of four hormones: insulin, cortisol, ghrelin and leptin.

As far as behaviourism goes, I guess you could argue either way whether it's a social science or a hard science.
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Nutrition science is based on people's behaviours, the scientific explanation you describe is an after the fact rationalisation for behaviour that does or doesn't fit in with the given theory. It's not even close to science based on first principles. The BMJ article implies heavily that no diet should be recommended by the 'science' of nutrition.
 
clogged said:
Nutrition science is based on people's behaviours, the scientific explanation you describe is an after the fact rationalisation for behaviour that does or doesn't fit in with the given theory. It's not even close to science based on first principles. The BMJ article implies heavily that no diet should be recommended by the 'science' of nutrition.
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that's the wrong way to look at IMO. Most overweight people are insulin (and probably leptin) resistant to some degree. If your cells think they are starving, which is what happens with insulin resistance, all the will power in the world is going to struggle to stay on a weightwatchers low calorie style diet long term.

Read 'good calories bad calories' and you will change your outlook on the 'cause' of obesity. It's not a behavourism issue.
 
evo said:
that's the wrong way to look at IMO. Most overweight people are insulin (and probably leptin) resistant to some degree. If your cells think they are starving, which is what happens with insulin resistance, all the will power in the world is going to struggle to stay on a weightwatchers low calorie style diet.

Read 'good calories bad calories' and you will change your outlook on the 'cause' of obesity. It's not a behavourism issue.
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I think we're talking about different things.

Asserting that one diet is the way for all humans based on self-reporting studies is where the science goes bad, because it is impossible to control for other factors as well as the tendency for people to misreport what their behaviours are.

From my reading, hormonal studies are created to fit the current narrative (why people are obese), but there's the 'unknown unknowns' study that doesn't tell us what happens if everyone switches to the (put fad here) diet designed to prevent obesity. Which is what that BMJ article is talking about. Every bit of nutrition science should come with heavy caveats attached, i.e. THIS MAY HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
 
clogged said:
Asserting that one diet is the way for all humans based on self-reporting studies is where the science goes bad, because it is impossible to control for other factors as well as the tendency for people to misreport what their behaviours are.
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Yeah. I dont disagree with his thesis. But he isnt really providing a solution. Fact of the matter is that obesity is a pretty serious problem and lets face it people are now so confused they don't even know what a 'healthy diet' that will help you lose weight is. I chat to people about about the subject all the time these days, mainly because on planning on becoming a consultant, and people are more confused than ever.

That's why I really like guy like Gary Taubes, who I notice that article cites. He's offering up a practical meta-approach that have a basis in good science.
 

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evo said:
Yeah. I dont disagree with his thesis. But he isnt really providing a solution.
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I think the problem is there isn't a solution. For a given person with a metabolic disease, there may be a tailored solution, but it is highly likely that a generalised, all-population healthy diet is not possible, and any recommendation of one will lead to similar bad outcomes.
 
clogged said:
I think the problem is there isn't a solution. For a given person with a metabolic disease, there may be a tailored solution, but it is highly likely that a generalised, all-population healthy diet is not possible, and any recommendation of one will lead to similar bad outcomes.
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It makes sense to me to look to the past as a general rule - it doesnt even have to be primal/paleo. Obesity in such high percentages of the population is only a phenomena of the last 30 years. And that is mainly down to people thinking that eating high grain/ starchy carbs/ sugar - low fat is a 'healthy' diet. Clearly, as a general reccomendation, it isn't.
 
Bazzar said:
Would have finished on a brighter note if he hadn't went all silly.
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Maybe he should try Watson's diet? Talk of that has diminished in recent months I've noticed.
 
clogged said:
I think the problem is there isn't a solution. For a given person with a metabolic disease, there may be a tailored solution, but it is highly likely that a generalised, all-population healthy diet is not possible, and any recommendation of one will lead to similar bad outcomes.
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Given the amount of processed s**t most people eat, eating heathier (as opposed to healthiest) can't be too hard.

Some basic rules can't hurt i.e. if it provide calories but no real nutrition - reduce or avoid.
 
SJ said:
Maybe he should try Watson's diet? Talk of that has diminished in recent months I've noticed.
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To be fair, he's improved to the point of actually being able to nick one now instead of only using his pads to get out.
 
clogged said:
I think the problem is there isn't a solution. For a given person with a metabolic disease, there may be a tailored solution, but it is highly likely that a generalised, all-population healthy diet is not possible, and any recommendation of one will lead to similar bad outcomes.
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Agree that there isn't one diet for all humans but the general population eat too many processed carbs. Everyone should, in unison, scream that this is a very bad idea.

I eat a low carb diet and it suits me fine however there are people to which this diet doesn't suit so there is nothing wrong with them eating a high amount of good carbs.
 
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