Retired Leigh Montagna

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Mowman said:
Sorry to go on about this but if I did that with one of my employees, work cover would shut me down cant believe the club did this
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Relax Mowman. What Lex said. To think this is an issue of poor man management and injury management is a joke. If he couldn't get out there he wouldn't have, and he did get out because it was decided he could.

I'm sure over 50% of players go into a game with some sort of injury cloud. It's not like everyone has a clean bill of health. Pull ya head in.
 
Mowman said:
Sorry to go on about this but if I did that with one of my employees, work cover would shut me down cant believe the club did this
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Relax Mowman. What Lex said. To think this is an issue of poor man management and injury management is a joke. If he couldn't get out there he wouldn't have, and he did get out because it was decided he could.

I'm sure over 50% of players go into a game with some sort of injury cloud. It's not like everyone has a clean bill of health. Pull ya head in.
 
Sunshine Saint said:
To be fair, if you pull on the jumper and go on the ground you are fit to play. If you are injured and it is such that affects your game badly, then you shouldn't be out there. Can appreciate that he was carrying something, as do many players and even Joey himself at different times over his career, but if he plays he is judged on his performance.

The frustration I had wasn't his form, or lack of, but rather that he looked disinterested and like he didn't want to be out there. He gave the appearance that he was just going through the motions, either because we weren't competitive, or that his heart was no longer at the Saints.
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All valid points...

Have you never had other things on your mind? Ever been distracted? For all we know there may be other factors at play.

It is one thing to ask questions as to why he isn't playing well - but another have a go at someone based on your unproven opinions. Not you specifically... just saying.

And I might add that the club has stated that he played injured and nothing more. They are not saying that was the reason why his form was down. He was obviously fit enough to play and push through any concerns. Did it affect his form? w do not know for sure either way.

All too easy for us armchairs experts.

I just don't see it as being justifiable to talk down a person if you don't know what their journey is.

How would one feel if someone said things about your sibling or kid, when you know that may have mental issues or whatever? Not fair is it?

But somehow we feel we are entitled to do that to sports people as if it's somehow ok.

We saw comments like "f***k off and don't let the door hit you etc etc" just because people "thought" he wasn't interested. This towards a club champion who has stayed loyal and busted his @rse for this club.

Absolute disgrace IMO.

Not here to tell people how to behave. Just voicing my views.
 

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felsty said:
Relax Mowman. What Lex said. To think this is an issue of poor man management and injury management is a joke. If he couldn't get out there he wouldn't have, and he did get out because it was decided he could.

I'm sure over 50% of players go into a game with some sort of injury cloud. It's not like everyone has a clean bill of health. Pull ya head in.
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This is no place for common sense.
 
felsty said:
Relax Mowman. What Lex said. To think this is an issue of poor man management and injury management is a joke. If he couldn't get out there he wouldn't have, and he did get out because it was decided he could.

I'm sure over 50% of players go into a game with some sort of injury cloud. It's not like everyone has a clean bill of health. Pull ya head in.
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Wasn't a joke how we managed Kosi or Luke Ball and how about you pull your head in
 
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VDS66 said:
I think he forgot the smiley face...
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I think so :/

Mowman said:
Wasn't a joke how we managed Kosi or Luke Ball and how about you pull your head in
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Don't think we are talking about those two.. That's for another matter.

Montagna playing with a crack in his leg is not a reflection of poor man management. See reason please.
 
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Fair point running around playing AFL football at the Highest level with a crack in your leg can only be good for you LOL
 
Big Mart said:
4th in the B&F

His numbers were down on his elite stuff from the last 8 years.... But at 23ppg with the main tag

Not terrible?

I don't buy into the injury thing much.... It's no surprise he appeared more like 2013 Dal or BJ/Lenny when tagged... It's not easy to beat
Crowley, Cornes, Weller, McCaffer etc.
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It makes it more remarkable that he finished so high
 
VDS66 said:
All valid points...

Have you never had other things on your mind? Ever been distracted? For all we know there may be other factors at play.

It is one thing to ask questions as to why he isn't playing well - but another have a go at someone based on your unproven opinions. Not you specifically... just saying.

And I might add that the club has stated that he played injured and nothing more. They are not saying that was the reason why his form was down. He was obviously fit enough to play and push through any concerns. Did it affect his form? w do not know for sure either way.

All too easy for us armchairs experts.

I just don't see it as being justifiable to talk down a person if you don't know what their journey is.

How would one feel if someone said things about your sibling or kid, when you know that may have mental issues or whatever? Not fair is it?

But somehow we feel we are entitled to do that to sports people as if it's somehow ok.

We saw comments like "f***k off and don't let the door hit you etc etc" just because people "thought" he wasn't interested. This towards a club champion who has stayed loyal and busted his @rse for this club.

Absolute disgrace IMO.

Not here to tell people how to behave. Just voicing my views.
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VDS as always most, if not all, of what you say I agree with. My post was not on the mental health, or other associated personal problems, that a player may have, but a comment on the announcement that Joey had played the year with an injured leg.

As I said earlier, most players carry niggles or small injuries and play with these. But my feeling has always been with injury that if you cross the line, you are judged on your performance. If the injury is bad enough to affect performance severely he should have never played, or should have been rested until he was able to play. It was not as if we absolutely had to have him play, in order to secure a spot in the 8 / top 4 position.

Not knowing of injury and hoping that the club wouldn't keep playing someone who shouldn't be playing, the other personal judgement made was that he wasn't interested, motivated or wanting to be there. Like most things in life, we can only make judgements, or decisions based on the evidence available to us. As you said this wasn't an attack on Joey, but comment made through what we could see each week.

I couldn't agree more on your comment, as to people showing a lack of respect to players. This is a valid for a rookie as it is for a champion. We all can get frustrated with player development, or performance, but all players, club champions included deserve our respect.
 
This wasnt a BROKEN leg.
It couldve been a small hairline fracture in one of the leg bones. Still wouldve hurt badly, but if the medicos said its not a danger of turning into a 'snapped leg' then there is absolutely nothing wrong with him wanting to play.
Each week you would find dozens of AFL players running around with broken fingers or fractures in hands and forearms.
Fractures in legs & feet while still playing arent probably as common,but this happens as well.
Its a tuff game played by tuff men.
Im sure if some Doctor told Joey "if you keep playing its a likely chance you will end up with a clean break in the leg" then he wouldnt have played.
I'll back the club on this one.
 

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Sunshine Saint said:
VDS as always most, if not all, of what you say I agree with. My post was not on the mental health, or other associated personal problems, that a player may have, but a comment on the announcement that Joey had played the year with an injured leg.

As I said earlier, most players carry niggles or small injuries and play with these. But my feeling has always been with injury that if you cross the line, you are judged on your performance. If the injury is bad enough to affect performance severely he should have never played, or should have been rested until he was able to play. It was not as if we absolutely had to have him play, in order to secure a spot in the 8 / top 4 position.

Not knowing of injury and hoping that the club wouldn't keep playing someone who shouldn't be playing, the other personal judgement made was that he wasn't interested, motivated or wanting to be there. Like most things in life, we can only make judgements, or decisions based on the evidence available to us. As you said this wasn't an attack on Joey, but comment made through what we could see each week.

I couldn't agree more on your comment, as to people showing a lack of respect to players. This is a valid for a rookie as it is for a champion. We all can get frustrated with player development, or performance, but all players, club champions included deserve our respect.
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Was just throwing up mental health as an example.

All good... as always. ;)
 
Respect to Joey for playing through that and for being a great club man.

If we could get a top 30 pick for him I would still trade him, assuming we could do it respectfully.
 
cartwright said:
Well fair enough

Not sure what we thought we were achieving by playing him. Achieved nothing but left fans questioning his work ethic etc
Poor decision
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Dont think it made all that much diff to the team or our performance.
Most of our guys from Sandy who werent getting a regular game for us. Murdoch, Ross, TDL, Siposs, Simpkin,Dunnel etc etc. Either didnt cut it and were dropped again. Or got injured or werent a viable midfield option. So i dont think a 3qtr fit Joey really squeezed anybody out of our team who was playing better.
And the fact he didnt care about playing injured and damaging his status as a very good player. IMO shows he put the team first.
Thats just the way i see it anyway.
 
I see a Boak who is one of the best players in the AFL (had 34 in a bog vs Rich) got 15 las night and was limited by Crowley.

Cotchin was well beaten by Cornes last week..

He probably wasn't 100% like most others.... But was an easy choice to be sat on in our Midfield

If not him

Steven or Armitage would be...
 
cartwright said:
Well fair enough

Not sure what we thought we were achieving by playing him. Achieved nothing but left fans questioning his work ethic etc
Poor decision
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So the club should make decisions based on what fans may perceive?

They obviously felt there was role for him and he agreed.

As someone else stated... no one held a gun to his head.
 
Sunshine Saint said:
To be fair, if you pull on the jumper and go on the ground you are fit to play. If you are injured and it is such that affects your game badly, then you shouldn't be out there. Can appreciate that he was carrying something, as do many players and even Joey himself at different times over his career, but if he plays he is judged on his performance.

The frustration I had wasn't his form, or lack of, but rather that he looked disinterested and like he didn't want to be out there. He gave the appearance that he was just going through the motions, either because we weren't competitive, or that his heart was no longer at the Saints.
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stkildathunda said:
I'm sorry but I'm not changing my view. When ANY player walks out onto the field then they are declaring themselves 100% fit and ready to perform to their absolute best. If he was injured then he shouldn't have played. But he did play and has to cop it for his piss poor performances all year.
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Present Not Past said:
There was no need to play Joey with injuries this season.
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Mowman said:
Players association should be asking for a please explain
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cartwright said:
Well fair enough

Not sure what we thought we were achieving by playing him. Achieved nothing but left fans questioning his work ethic etc
Poor decision
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Both the decision to play him (remembering that most of us are not qualified enough to judge the degree of risk the club and player took here) and the decision to release this information (probably should have been kept in house to spare the club from criticism whether it be due or undue) seem unwise to me.
 
VDS66 said:
So the club should make decisions based on what fans may perceive?

They obviously felt there was role for him and he agreed.

As someone else stated... no one held a gun to his head.
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Well no. His performances were clearly under what is to be expected.
We all understand that players are critiqued on a number of things. No obvious injury, leaves the mental /emotional side open to scrutiny.
I don't think it did him or the team any favours but kudos to him for playing through injury
 
Sunshine Saint said:
To be fair, if you pull on the jumper and go on the ground you are fit to play. If you are injured and it is such that affects your game badly, then you shouldn't be out there. Can appreciate that he was carrying something, as do many players and even Joey himself at different times over his career, but if he plays he is judged on his performance.

The frustration I had wasn't his form, or lack of, but rather that he looked disinterested and like he didn't want to be out there. He gave the appearance that he was just going through the motions, either because we weren't competitive, or that his heart was no longer at the Saints.
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Come on! Maybe he didn't want to be out there? Maybe he was told to just play and take the hard tag to let others ease into their careers. Remember when he tagged (I think Boomber)? He was doing the ultimate team thing by sacrificing his own game for the good of others yet got crucified in the press. There is not much 'don't play for the good of the team' when him not playing means greater liklihood of a 100+ point loss and animation of young players.

Well done Monty, thanks for you efforts.
Present Not Past said:
There was no need to play Joey with injuries this season.
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cartwright said:
Well no. His performances were clearly under what is to be expected.
We all understand that players are critiqued on a number of things. No obvious injury, leaves the mental /emotional side open to scrutiny.
I don't think it did him or the team any favours but kudos to him for playing through injury
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Only if measured against what you expect of him, not what is expected of the average player.
 
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