Leppa's Gameplan

[chopperduck]

Paul Roos would be good right about now. Can't believe our team was more advanced than the Demons last season... just goes to show what an experienced coach can do for a young team. Baffling that we went with an inexperienced coach for the second time now given our list profiles.

Yes, completely baffling how we tried to get the experienced coach we wanted, but they werent interested, so instead went the best of the newbies. Should have kidnapped a family member and made them come here.

Lets not forget the extreme help from the AFL the Dees are getting in even landing said coach in the first place. Also consider Roos hasnt turned the team around, he recruited half the team before the season started. Would be pretty handy if we could land a Cross and Vince to add to our midfield group then trade in a quality mid like Tyson.

 

[SizeMatters]

Good list management, something we have lacked for a decade now.

 

[James North]

Paul Roos would be good right about now. Can't believe our team was more advanced than the Demons last season... just goes to show what an experienced coach can do for a young team. Baffling that we went with an inexperienced coach for the second time now given our list profiles.

Port did it ... and some people say that's why they're doing really well now. It's a stroke of genius if it works immediately and it's baffling if it doesn't.

 

[carnthemlions]

Those same people that were saying the same thing about Maguire prior to his inclusion?

I'd have been infinitely more comfortable with Moloney and Raines running around in the middle tonight in place of O'Brien or Robertson and McGrath in place of Close up forward.

You want McGrath in place of a CHF?
That sounds like tanking to me.

Paul Roos would be good right about now. Can't believe our team was more advanced than the Demons last season... just goes to show what an experienced coach can do for a young team. Baffling that we went with an inexperienced coach for the second time now given our list profiles.

Headdesk

 

[chopperduck]

Good list management, something we have lacked for a decade now.

For decades? I think we did pretty well during the 3 flags we won. We had a horrible horrible period from about 04 to 09 where we didnt make the big decisions to rebuild, we didnt draft well and were paying players like Hooper copious amounts of money, way above what they were worth. Weve righted the salary cap, and the player payments, we just havent been able to land any big targets the last few years, but attracting talent here has always been the issue.

We have now lost a host of talented top picks, so we find ourselves yet again back to square one. Drafting is good, retention needs help. But according to the AFL there isnt a problem there, we just need to win more.

Hopefully we can get things sorted off field and get some funding from the AFL to keep our football and retention funded enough to be effective.

 

[Lionheart182]

Gee I know we're bottom of the ladder but I hate hearing the words 'we know we're not going to beat the top sides', especially seeing as though we beat two first placed sides last year.

Not that I think that is going to happen every year, but dare to dream, surely. Nothing better than seeing a bunch of underdogs play with some fighting spirit, regardless of the result. None of that from anyone yesterday Rockliff excluded.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Gee I know we're bottom of the ladder but I hate hearing the words 'we know we're not going to beat the top sides', especially seeing as though we beat two first placed sides last year.

Not that I think that is going to happen every year, but dare to dream, surely. Nothing better than seeing a bunch of underdogs play with some fighting spirit, regardless of the result. None of that from anyone yesterday Rockliff excluded.

Again, I can only say that comment ,when considered in the whole context and relative to the question that was asked, was way less worrying than some people are making it out to be.

It's a retrospective comment on what you can take out of a brutally non-competitive game like that after the fact and an acknowledgement of where we are at in the cycle of footy. He capped it off by saying that the performance was far from acceptable.

People trying to claim he is sending the players out there without a high but realistic level of expectation are simply not listening to the underlying message.

He probably could have chosen his words better in light of today's media environment that loves a soundbite out of context, but you don't have to look to hard to understand what Leppa is really saying.

I think some healthy pragmatism and a coach that doesn't treat us like idiots is a breath of fresh air and probably not a bad way to help retain our young players long term.

I am almost certain the message given to the players after a game like last night is "look, we know where we are at in our development and clearly we are going to struggle to beat teams like Fremantle at the moment, but there is still a level of expectation on what you guys should be delivering at this stage and we were well, well short in this game. Look at how a side like Freo goes about it... that is the level of professionalism we have to build towards. That is where we are heading. Learn from it."

 

[James North]

What else does a coach say in that situation?

"We came here expecting to win, so I'm shattered".

 

[Haso]

What else does a coach say in that situation?

"We came here expecting to win, so I'm shattered".

"We'll be immediately dropping Rockliff for not winning the game off of his own bat. None of saw this terrible loss coming."

 

[AFLQLD]

I am almost certain the message given to the players after a game like last night is "look, we know where we are at in our development and clearly we are going to struggle to beat teams like Fremantle at the moment, but there is still a level of expectation on what you guys should be delivering at this stage and we were well, well short in this game. Look at how a side like Freo goes about it... that is the level of professionalism we have to build towards. That is where we are heading. Learn from it."

I think that is probably the exact post-game message - learn from other teams what it takes. The lesson hurts and we are going to learn it the hard way a few more times yet. But...we keep learning and keep improving. And the ONLY way to stop it happening so painfully is to learn and improve every time we go out there.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Port did it ... and some people say that's why they're doing really well now. It's a stroke of genius if it works immediately and it's baffling if it doesn't.

Plus clubs don't usually look at sacked former AFL senior coaches as they are sacked for a reason. Leppa and Hinkley are hardly "Inexperienced" prior to getting a senior gig, unless people only rate holding a Senior position as "experience". Voss was Inexperienced, Leppa wasn't. Not saying leppa will be a success, but if he aint it wont be because he didn't have an adequate apprenticeship to gain "Experience"

 

[Lionheart182]

Again, I can only say that comment ,when considered in the whole context and relative to the question that was asked, was way less worrying than some people are making it out to be.

It's a retrospective comment on what you can take out of a brutally non-competitive game like that after the fact and an acknowledgement of where we are at in the cycle of footy. He capped it off by saying that the performance was far from acceptable.

People trying to claim he is sending the players out there without a high but realistic level of expectation are simply not listening to the underlying message.

He probably could have chosen his words better in light of today's media environment that loves a soundbite out of context, but you don't have to look to hard to understand what Leppa is really saying.

I think some healthy pragmatism and a coach that doesn't treat us like idiots is a breath of fresh air and probably not a bad way to help retain our young players long term.

I am almost certain the message given to the players after a game like last night is "look, we know where we are at in our development and clearly we are going to struggle to beat teams like Fremantle at the moment, but there is still a level of expectation on what you guys should be delivering at this stage and we were well, well short in this game. Look at how a side like Freo goes about it... that is the level of professionalism we have to build towards. That is where we are heading. Learn from it."

I get all that, but as you would know coaching is not always explicit, and if Leppa is making comments like that it says to me he went into the game with a mindset of not trying to win or at least take the game on to the best of our ability and our static * around style of play in the first half reflected that.

Again you would know the attitudes of individuals can have an enormous impact on the psyche of a team so saying comments such as this only serves to deflate team further and gives a pretty negative impression about our preparation for the game IMO (obviously I am not privvy to coaches meetings but this is just my personal impression).

I will reiterate that I did not expect us to win but there was very little resistance in that game and I reckon coaching and team preparation had a lot to do with it. I'm not suggesting anything more than that.

Also curious to know who you believe was taking fans for idiots?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Again you would know the attitudes of individuals can have an enormous impact on the psyche of a team so saying comments such as this only serves to deflate team further

Yeah but there is obviously a balance to be found in that regard with some realistic expectations, and mercilessly panning a bunch of kids without qualification for failing to beat a battle hardened, mature Freo side is probably going to be equally, if not more deflating to the psyche.

 

[Last of the Roys]

Just so people can have informed opinions about what Leppa actually said rather than assuming from a few quotes in an article:

Thanks for posting that it was really good to watch.

Clearly from the press conference itself, the quotes I was paraphrasing were taken out of context and didn't appear bad at all.

I do think my underlying conclusion is still right (not that Leppa really overtly confirmed it) - that we selected a team not to try to win, but to teach them for the future - something I think we have done a number of times this year.

I wouldn't call it tanking - cause in all likelihood we had little chance of winning regardless of who we picked - so we don't need to try to tank. Again I am not convinced it is the best approach to take - I would prefer we went with at least couple of extra more experienced bodies so you get a more competitive outcome and hopefully a better learning experience for those young ones still in the team. (Raines and Moloney or Lester would have been handy last night).

Anyway, it was good to see Leppa thinks we need to focus more on defence (and of course contested possessions). It is hard to try and build a good side if you not doing the basics rights as a team defensively.

 

[Lionheart182]

Yeah but there is obviously a balance to be found in that regard with some realistic expectations, and mercilessly panning a bunch of kids without qualification for failing to beat a battle hardened, mature Freo side is probably going to be equally, if not more deflating to the psyche.

There is, but I guess my point is I would like to see balance more towards building belief that we can at least compete with good sides for portions of games. Perhaps this will be a longer term outcome goal of his coaching style but it seems as though we had thrown in the towel yesterday. An interesting discussion anyway.

 

[chopperduck]

Thanks for posting that it was really good to watch.

Clearly from the press conference itself, the quotes I was paraphrasing were taken out of context and didn't appear bad at all.

I do think my underlying conclusion is still right (not that Leppa really overtly confirmed it) - that we selected a team not to try to win, but to teach them for the future - something I think we have done a number of times this year.

I wouldn't call it tanking - cause in all likelihood we had little chance of winning regardless of who we picked - so we don't need to try to tank. Again I am not convinced it is the best approach to take - I would prefer we went with at least couple of extra more experienced bodies so you get a more competitive outcome and hopefully a better learning experience for those young ones still in the team. (Raines and Moloney or Lester would have been handy last night).

Anyway, it was good to see Leppa thinks we need to focus more on defence (and of course contested possessions). It is hard to try and build a good side if you not doing the basics rights as a team defensively.

I think this as well. It would be easier to play some older players, but Leppa has a pretty good grasp of our list and where it is at i think. He knows we are a couple of years off, and need some good drafting to bring in more talent. In the mean time, he is playing the players that deserve a game. We have consistently played the best performing players from our reserves team and given them senior games. Players get games by earning them, not by status. I think it is not only who we are playing, but where that is telling as well. We are moving our players around a lot more, playing more and different roles to teach them things. It is very much a developmental season, learning the new systems, and growing the players abilities and skill sets. The one thing he wants is effort, and Leppa has been very consistent with his message on this as well. Not winning a game as fine, but he expects a certain level regardless of the result. Those not doing that level usually end up dropped. I've been happy with team selection this year. We have to play the long game, and the only way that works is if you commit to it fully. And sometimes a development or learning opportunity for a player is more important to the term long term, than a player playing a position better for that 1 game.

Suns are a good case in point. Very talented list, also one of the most talented senior players of the last 20 years in Ablett. It has still taken them until year 4 to start getting on top of other teams. This is the same list, same talent that was being put to the sword 3 years ago by everyone. Difference is now they are bigger, fitter, stronger, more experienced and know exactly how the coach wants them to play. They are now getting the rewards for that. No matter how great a talent a player is, it still takes time. We are a young team, not as talented as the Suns list obviously, but it will take some time to get the fitness and experience. Development and retention need to be #1 priority over the next 3 or so years. We have to draft well, and keep them at the club to make sure we have the talent on the list. By then we should be playing Leppa ball pretty well, and results will come.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I think Leppa has us on a slow simmer ready to peak after GWS and GC17 have raffled the next 9 premierships between them. Genius.

 

[POBT]

When I watched the game, the only available Lions player I wished was out there was Lester. And that was purely due to the conditions.

Right now, I am comfortable that who we are putting out on the field each week is, at worst, only marginally less competitive than our best available side. It is that sort of circumstance where "play the kids" becomes a justifiable tie breaker.

 

[John]

All said and done though I would like us to pick a team that we think will win. I really do hate this constant rebuild stuff and nonsense.

 

[Hollow Knight]

When I watched the game, the only available Lions player I wished was out there was Lester. And that was purely due to the conditions.

Right now, I am comfortable that who we are putting out on the field each week is, at worst, only marginally less competitive than our best available side. It is that sort of circumstance where "play the kids" becomes a justifiable tie breaker.

Yeah, my sentimomonies exactly.

I don't disagree with those who are saying that Leppa isn't picking a team capable of winning. I just don't think he has any alternative.

To steal Tassie4Ever's line from his ressie reports... the pantry is bare.

 

[chopperduck]

There is, but I guess my point is I would like to see balance more towards building belief that we can at least compete with good sides for portions of games. Perhaps this will be a longer term outcome goal of his coaching style but it seems as though we had thrown in the towel yesterday. An interesting discussion anyway.

Words are meaningless without context. Saying we weren't expecting a win really isn't a huge deal. The focus is on the effort, not the result. Players aren't stupid, they know who they are up against and know a win isn't likely. Having the effort there even when you know you are going to lose is much more important. And effort is something we have struggled with this year. We aren't consistent, getting that up first will go a long way, and instill good habbits to the playing group.

 

[chopperduck]

All said and done though I would like us to pick a team that we think will win. I really do hate this constant rebuild stuff and nonsense.

I think we are doing this though. Our inclusions this week were the best 2 ressies performers and big Merrett back into the team. We are consistently playing the best performing ressies players. They just happen to be the youngsters. Whether that is a reflection on the senior players being rubbish, or our draftees being really good though i don't know.

 

[chopperduck]

Moloney, Rich, Black missing from last years midfield group. That is some quality to cover in what was already a fairly thin midfield group.

 

[SizeMatters]

For decades? I think we did pretty well during the 3 flags we won. We had a horrible horrible period from about 04 to 09 where we didnt make the big decisions to rebuild, we didnt draft well and were paying players like Hooper copious amounts of money, way above what they were worth. Weve righted the salary cap, and the player payments, we just havent been able to land any big targets the last few years, but attracting talent here has always been the issue.

We have now lost a host of talented top picks, so we find ourselves yet again back to square one. Drafting is good, retention needs help. But according to the AFL there isnt a problem there, we just need to win more.

Hopefully we can get things sorted off field and get some funding from the AFL to keep our football and retention funded enough to be effective.

I never said decades, but everything else I agree with. We need help and we needed it about two years ago.

 

[Dizzle]

Bitching about the 22 that went out last night for losing is like yelling at the sun for coming up. It might make you feel better, but it isn't going to change a single thing and no sane person will understand why you bother.