Roast Australian Politics Stuffing Up Australia - Treasurer Joe Hockey Pg26

[PieNSauce]

I'll give you the tip. Tell them to go spend a month in a third world country and see how good we have it. I didn't vote for either party and don't have an opinion either way on the budget. What I will say is that I have now lived long enough to see countless budgets and in reality they don't make a huge difference to most people, the doom and gloom on this site is a little hysterical. I wonder how many people complaining have iPads, iPods, a decent house , drink regularly , eat well, go on holidays etc etc etc. I am by no means a rich man but regardless of who is running this great country I will consider my self very fortunate. I bet your kids have more luxuries than you had at their age because most do. So I would tell them to be extremely grateful they live in a country which is still a land of opportunity. Yep it's not perfect but no where is. Be grateful that if you are not happy then in 2 years you get the chance to vote in a new government because many don't have that right.

I don't think too many are suggesting that there aren't plenty of countries where people are worse off than us but I hardly think that's relevant to the discussion. This is Australia and it has always been a prosperous country with plenty to go round for all. The fear is that our political parties all seem to be of the belief that they can mislead the people for political advantage only to dishonestly apply policies for which they have no mandate and somehow we keep coming back for more. The exercise is so cynical because immediately prior to an election they start bringing out the pots of gold and the hoardes seem to buy it as though this is acceptable behavior. The fact that it's not confined to one party or the other is the biggest problem and plenty of people have become pretty fed up with this game of cat and mouse that plays out every few years.

In the end, whether you agree with it or not, people have a right to fear for their childrens' future given how much the landscape has changed in the last 30 or 40 years. When I left school with zero experience at anything in the 1970's, getting a job was little more than choosing which of the hundreds of available opportunities you wanted to take up or whether you would like to go on to fully paid university education. Sadly my children will not experience this and I believe that many of the societal problems we have stem in some degree from that fact. So much for the lucky country. Yes we are better off than some but does that mean we must become more like them? Is that our aspiration? I certainly hope not.

 

[ant22]

I don't think too many are suggesting that there aren't plenty of countries where people are worse off than us but I hardly think that's relevant to the discussion. This is Australia and it has always been a prosperous country with plenty to go round for all. The fear is that our political parties all seem to be of the belief that they can mislead the people for political advantage only to dishonestly apply policies for which they have no mandate and somehow we keep coming back for more. The exercise is so cynical because immediately prior to an election they start bringing out the pots of gold and the hoardes seem to buy it as though this is acceptable behavior. The fact that it's not confined to one party or the other is the biggest problem and plenty of people have become pretty fed up with this game of cat and mouse that plays out every few years.

In the end, whether you agree with it or not, people have a right to fear for their childrens' future given how much the landscape has changed in the last 30 or 40 years. When I left school with zero experience at anything in the 1970's, getting a job was little more than choosing which of the hundreds of available opportunities you wanted to take up or whether you would like to go on to fully paid university education. Sadly my children will not experience this and I believe that many of the societal problems we have stem in some degree from that fact. So much for the lucky country. Yes we are better off than some but does that mean we must become more like them? Is that our aspiration? I certainly hope not.

I think its relevant when people are suggesting our country is stuffed. Let me ask you this. If politicians told the truth would be vote for them? I am certain most would not. To take a line from Jack "people cant handle the truth" While I have not read into the budget in great detail I also know the country has a big deficit and if it is not fixed then we could end up like the states and we don't want that to happen. Labour or liberal there was always going to be big cuts. The reason I did not vote for anyone in the last election is that they both spent far more engery on telling us what was wrong with the other party than fixing the issue. But having said that I also subscribe to the theory you cant have your cake and eat it to and if we have a deficit it needs to be reduced. Labour Liberal I don't think there is a whole lot of difference. They both lie to get into power and always will. Lifes still pretty good either way.

As for jobs I reckon we are going ok. I apprecaite that some industries are stuggling like manufactoring and I feel sorry for those people but that is the way life has always been. As time goes on some industries thrive while others become less relevant. Where I grew up in the latrobe valley in the late 80s when the Labour gvmt sold off the SEC unemployment was significantly worse that what it is now. Considering how the rest of the world has been going over the last 5 or 6 years I reckon we are in good shape. I cannot think of a single person I know who wants a job who cant get one. It may not always be the perfect job but if you want to work (I appreciate for a small minorty this can be difficult) then you will get a job. So when I was finishing high school the country was in the worst financial mess it had been in. Less job than there are now. I bombed at school but still found away to make something and earn a good enough living to have a good lifestyle. and one thing is for certain and that is that my kids like most kids have alot more luxuries than we did.

You can absolutely say anything you want to your kids and i am sure it will always have the best of intentions. I tend to be pretty glass is half full and what I will be telling my kids as they get older is.

Be grateful because your damn lucky to have been born here
Don't take anything for granted
If you want something bad enough you are lucky enough to live in a country where you can get it
Believe you control your own destiny and dont make excuses just keep working at it.

Im sure and I hope your kids will be ok

 

[PieNSauce]

I think its relevant when people are suggesting our country is stuffed. Let me ask you this. If politicians told the truth would be vote for them? I am certain most would not. To take a line from Jack "people cant handle the truth" While I have not read into the budget in great detail I also know the country has a big deficit and if it is not fixed then we could end up like the states and we don't want that to happen. Labour or liberal there was always going to be big cuts. The reason I did not vote for anyone in the last election is that they both spent far more engery on telling us what was wrong with the other party than fixing the issue. But having said that I also subscribe to the theory you cant have your cake and eat it to and if we have a deficit it needs to be reduced. Labour Liberal I don't think there is a whole lot of difference. They both lie to get into power and always will. Lifes still pretty good either way.

As for jobs I reckon we are going ok. I apprecaite that some industries are stuggling like manufactoring and I feel sorry for those people but that is the way life has always been. As time goes on some industries thrive while others become less relevant. Where I grew up in the latrobe valley in the late 80s when the Labour gvmt sold off the SEC unemployment was significantly worse that what it is now. Considering how the rest of the world has been going over the last 5 or 6 years I reckon we are in good shape. I cannot think of a single person I know who wants a job who cant get one. It may not always be the perfect job but if you want to work (I appreciate for a small minorty this can be difficult) then you will get a job. So when I was finishing high school the country was in the worst financial mess it had been in. Less job than there are now. I bombed at school but still found away to make something and earn a good enough living to have a good lifestyle. and one thing is for certain and that is that my kids like most kids have alot more luxuries than we did.

You can absolutely say anything you want to your kids and i am sure it will always have the best of intentions. I tend to be pretty glass is half full and what I will be telling my kids as they get older is.

Be grateful because your damn lucky to have been born here
Don't take anything for granted
If you want something bad enough you are lucky enough to live in a country where you can get it
Believe you control your own destiny and dont make excuses just keep working at it.

Im sure and I hope your kids will be ok

Whilst we definitely don't view some things the same way, I have no real desire to get into philosophical differences especially wher politics is concerned but I appreciate the closing sentiment!

 

[jonbe54]

Come and join me on the Australian Politics thread, some true blue Libs there.

I think not Maggie - I have SERIOUS problems with rednecks and would be social climbers, I would be permabanned in a day or two.

 

[Captivating]

How can the pension age stay the same when we have an ageing population that is living longer than ever before? It's completely unsustainable

Fewer people will be dependant on an aged pension over time as most will be access their Superannuation upon preservation aged (at 60 years of age).

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Our debt rate is currently faster than Europe's. Even worse than Spain which was a full scale economic disaster. At this rate if another GFC hits, Australia would be well and truly stuffed.

One step back, two steps forward.

Much like Buckley's list management last year.

 

[jonbe54]

Our debt rate is currently faster than Europe's. At this rate if another GFC hits, Australia would be well and truly stuffed.

One step back, two steps forward.

Much like Buckley's list management last year.

Another GFC??

You mean like the last one caused by the very same clique of brain dead profit chasers STILL controlling the world economy and so beloved of all conservative paties?

That type of GFC??

With conservatives in power it's almost a damn certainty if they aren't kicked out quickly.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Another GFC??That type of GFC??

Why did you only acknowledge the GFC part of that post? Truly insignificant point - and is if I could truly pick it anyway.

The crux of that post (which you bypassed) was that Australia is spiraling out of control faster than an economic basket case country like Spain and the rest of Europe. The IMF has recently said that Australia's public spending is set to grow by 16 percent in the next couple of years. Faster than that of France, US, NZ, Sweden. Worse, the British government is able to borrow money at 2.5 percent, whereas Australia has to pay almost 4 percent. Only one third of debt is owned by Australians.

Without the 'pain' of this budget - Australia is heading down a bad road. GFC or whatever you want to call the next crisis (it is a matter of when, not if when it comes to these things), Australia won't be very well placed without this change. Cuts are necessary. As usual the bitter old spew their political ideologies rather than face the facts.

 

[jonbe54]

Why did you only acknowledge the GFC part of that post? Truly insignificant point - and is if I could truly pick it anyway.

The crux of that post (which you bypassed) was that Australia is spiraling out of control faster than an economic basket case country like Spain and the rest of Europe. The IMF has recently said that Australia's public spending is set to grow by 16 percent in the next couple of years. Faster than that of France, US, NZ, Sweden. Worse, the British government is able to borrow money at 2.5 percent, whereas Australia has to pay almost 4 percent. Only one third of debt is owned by Australians.

Without the 'pain' of this budget - Australia is heading down a bad road. GFC or whatever you want to call the next crisis (it is a matter of when, not if when it comes to these things), Australia won't be very well placed without this change. Cuts are necessary. As usual the bitter old spew their political ideologies rather than face the facts.

Ahhh another sheep bleating in the flock,

Goodbye

Ignored.

 

[Captivating]

Ahhh another sheep bleating in the flock,

Goodbye

Ignored.

just pathetic.

 

[bradrowe#32]

A couple of issues. The first is that if you are a manual worker for example, it is asking a lot for say a labourer or machinist etc to carry on working at that age. It's only economic theorists who believe that someone can suddenly change their job and become a junk bond trader or anything other than a lollipop man or lady.

More generally, when you stretch the average working lifespan it disadvantages those in their 60s. We haven't had anything like full employment for 50 years, so when you have an even larger labour pool by extending the working age, who do you think employers will chose to employ, especially in a casualised workforce?

Agree with this. I once worked in a factory where a majority of the workforce was 50 to 65ish and they really battled. Speaking to a lot of them, they basically got a manual labour job right out of school and kept at it for 30-40 years, trying to pay off the mortgage, get the kids through school and just get along. It wasn't that physically demanding, but it still required a lot of walking and heavy lifting. Day in, day out, they did this for decades.

This was a government organisation and they weren't happy with the production of these workers in their later years and they really had slowed down. They couldn't get rid of them because these workers were heavily represented by the unions.

If they could, they would be gone tomorrow and then what happens? They would be difficult to employ when there is younger people that will do the job (which isn't that difficult really) and these guys won't get a look in.

It would be much easier for an office worker to keep going until they're 70, but these guys simply cannot do it physically. They all wear knee/back braces, take a day off per week and have a slow production rate compared to younger guys.

And these guys had a relatively easy job. A bricklayer or construction worker has no chance of working until they're 70.

 

[jonbe54]

Agree with this. I once worked in a factory where a majority of the workforce was 50 to 65ish and they really battled. Speaking to a lot of them, they basically got a manual labour job right out of school and kept at it for 30-40 years, trying to pay off the mortgage, get the kids through school and just get along. It wasn't that physically demanding, but it still required a lot of walking and heavy lifting. Day in, day out, they did this for decades.

This was a government organisation and they weren't happy with the production of these workers in their later years and they really had slowed down. They couldn't get rid of them because these workers were heavily represented by the unions.

If they could, they would be gone tomorrow and then what happens? They would be difficult to employ when there is younger people that will do the job (which isn't that difficult really) and these guys won't get a look in.

It would be much easier for an office worker to keep going until they're 70, but these guys simply cannot do it physically. They all wear knee/back braces, take a day off per week and have a slow production rate compared to younger guys.

And these guys had a relatively easy job. A bricklayer or construction worker has no chance of working until they're 70.

It's simply indicitive of the conservative mindset - anything that hints of a penny out of the public purse is an anethema to them.

You're average conservative politician is a scrooge - in that they simply can't bear to see money going out, especially public money.

Anything to do with social benefits is the scourge of their lives. Most have never struggled and those that have are almost without exception sharks who tore others to shreds to build their platform. A goodly percentage have lived sheltered lives, cossetted on all sides and shielded from harsh realities. Except for the sharks they have zero understanding of the stark struggle that is the lot of the common man.

I don't pity them or hate them - I feel only utter contempt for their willfull ignorance and total arrogance.

 

[Old Spice]

Our debt rate is currently faster than Europe's. Even worse than Spain which was a full scale economic disaster. At this rate if another GFC hits, Australia would be well and truly stuffed.

One step back, two steps forward.

Much like Buckley's list management last year.

'Faster'? That doesn't even mean anything. Tosh. Utter unsubstantiated tosh.

Clive Palmer as a billionaire at least knows this 'debt crisis' is utter garbage even if tea-party bullshitters don't or can't understand it. They don't give out AAA economic ratings to anybody. Our govt debt is amongst the lowest in the OECD and FAR superior to Spains. What loose nonsense. In fact it's mischievous and slimy.

The reality is that corporate cowboys and spivs ****ed our economy and that Labor had to firewall it against a cataclysm which caught fire in Europe and America. You should be thanking them and kissing their rings, not blaming them for the disaster Abbott's fellow travellers created

 

[blaze036]

'Faster'? That doesn't even mean anything. Tosh. Utter unsubstantiated tosh.

Clive Palmer as a billionaire at least knows this 'debt crisis' is utter garbage even if tea-party bullshitters don't or can't understand it. They don't give out AAA economic ratings to anybody. Our govt debt is amongst the lowest in the OECD and FAR superior to Spains. What loose nonsense. In fact it's mischievous and slimy.

The reality is that corporate cowboys and spivs ****** our economy and that Labor had to firewall it against a cataclysm which caught fire in Europe and America. You should be thanking them and kissing their rings, not blaming them for the disaster Abbott's fellow travellers created

Not hard to avoid economic disaster when China are constantly buying everything we dig for billions. I agree with the first part

 

[Old Spice]

Not hard to avoid economic disaster when China are constantly buying everything we dig for billions. I agree with the first part

Glad you agree that we had a boom. The problem was that Howard sat on the mining largesse and refused to re-gear our economy on the back of it but instead to dosh out middle class welfare which spiked housing costs (along with a refusal to end negative gearing and foreign investment in housing stock) . Then Abbott refused to tax our natural resources as per the Ken Henry, treasury recommendations.

Now we have China gearing to a carbon neutral economy, which means coal lies banked up on the south eastern Chinese ports.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/china-threatens-to-pierce-coal-export-bubble-47613

These dickheads couldn't organise anything but an incestuous orgy.

 

[Old Spice]

Agree with this. I once worked in a factory where a majority of the workforce was 50 to 65ish and they really battled. Speaking to a lot of them, they basically got a manual labour job right out of school and kept at it for 30-40 years, trying to pay off the mortgage, get the kids through school and just get along. It wasn't that physically demanding, but it still required a lot of walking and heavy lifting. Day in, day out, they did this for decades.

This was a government organisation and they weren't happy with the production of these workers in their later years and they really had slowed down. They couldn't get rid of them because these workers were heavily represented by the unions.

If they could, they would be gone tomorrow and then what happens? They would be difficult to employ when there is younger people that will do the job (which isn't that difficult really) and these guys won't get a look in.

It would be much easier for an office worker to keep going until they're 70, but these guys simply cannot do it physically. They all wear knee/back braces, take a day off per week and have a slow production rate compared to younger guys.

And these guys had a relatively easy job. A bricklayer or construction worker has no chance of working until they're 70.

The general problem with this pack of dickheads is that they are trying to set the terms of the debate as a scrap between people for the crumbs.

As I've said before, if we think we can coast along on mineral resources and produce as we run down manufacturing, we're truly living in a fool's paradise. We need to invest desperately in tertiary education so a/. we have an economic comparative advantage over emerging economies who are gobbling up manufacturing and services and b/. because a highly skilled workforce earns more money and therefore pays more tax to go to further innovation.

I mean Jesus wept, what are these nonces doing? We should have got cracking 15 YEARS AGO, but Howard's old fogeyism - a slave to ideology over economy - has set us back into the Neolithic era. We could have our cake and eat it if we weren't run by myopic, ideological flogs who are setting about to correct some type of humiliations they suffered as student activists 30 years ago.

 

[ZEV]

I liked the budget

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

'Faster'? That doesn't even mean anything. Tosh. Utter unsubstantiated tosh.

Clive Palmer as a billionaire at least knows this 'debt crisis' is utter garbage even if tea-party bullshitters don't or can't understand it. They don't give out AAA economic ratings to anybody. Our govt debt is amongst the lowest in the OECD and FAR superior to Spains. What loose nonsense. In fact it's mischievous and slimy.

The reality is that corporate cowboys and spivs ****** our economy and that Labor had to firewall it against a cataclysm which caught fire in Europe and America. You should be thanking them and kissing their rings, not blaming them for the disaster Abbott's fellow travellers created

Again. Another poster with political conspiracy theories only who cannot dispute or form an argument based on simple economic facts.

The previous budget is unsustainable. Its that simple. You may not agree where cuts are made, fair enough, but it would be very silly to believe Australia could continue spending as it has.

 

[Old Spice]

Again. Another poster with political conspiracy theories only who cannot dispute or form an argument based on simple economic facts.

The previous budget is unsustainable. Its that simple. You may not agree where cuts are made, fair enough, but it would be very silly to believe Australia could continue spending as it has.

Mate, you said we are in a worse debt position than Spain and when I present you with the facts which make a total nonsense of it, you can't back up your ludicrous claim. I think we all know why.

If you make outrageous claims them back them up with proof. Some flabby nonsense about 'political conspiracies' just makes you look like a clown.

This isn't a Murdoch rag, people argue back here with facts.

 

[Maggie5]

Why did you only acknowledge the GFC part of that post? Truly insignificant point - and is if I could truly pick it anyway.

The crux of that post (which you bypassed) was that Australia is spiraling out of control faster than an economic basket case country like Spain and the rest of Europe. The IMF has recently said that Australia's public spending is set to grow by 16 percent in the next couple of years. Faster than that of France, US, NZ, Sweden. Worse, the British government is able to borrow money at 2.5 percent, whereas Australia has to pay almost 4 percent. Only one third of debt is owned by Australians.

Without the 'pain' of this budget - Australia is heading down a bad road. GFC or whatever you want to call the next crisis (it is a matter of when, not if when it comes to these things), Australia won't be very well placed without this change. Cuts are necessary. As usual the bitter old spew their political ideologies rather than face the facts.

Would like to see your source for this post.

 

[TradeDraft]

I liked the budget

Why? - What do you get out of it?

 

[lewigie]

I don't think it will be very long before we don't even have a pension, to be honest. By that I mean in 50 years time.

Would it force people to give a s**t about actually taking an interest in their money and looking into investing? You don't HAVE to retire at 70, you can retire at any time you want can't you?

 

[TradeDraft]

I don't think it will be very long before we don't even have a pension, to be honest. By that I mean in 50 years time.

Would it force people to give a s**t about actually taking an interest in their money and looking into investing? You don't HAVE to retire at 70, you can retire at any time you want can't you?

Well not everyone has that Luxery to have money that they can save up. Some people have Legit Reasons why they can’t work or get a real good job

 

[jonbe54]

I don't think it will be very long before we don't even have a pension, to be honest. By that I mean in 50 years time.

Would it force people to give a s**t about actually taking an interest in their money and looking into investing? You don't HAVE to retire at 70, you can retire at any time you want can't you?

Try concreteing or bricklaying at 70 - sh1t forget that try it at 45 - they are BLOODY physically demanding occupations which wear out the body a bloody side quicker than sitting in a nice office and saying people should give a sh1t about their money

 

[ZEV]

Why? - What do you get out of it?

Nothing really. Just not as damaging to our operations as the last three.