Poll NAFL - Round 1

[Gibbsy]

I've considered discussing having a competition where everyone uses the same template but with so many different programs being used it's not feasible.

I remember having a big rant in a competition where someone had entered a brilliant Washington Redskins crossover that never got votes because of the paint template it was on.

I remember people justifying their votes with "nah I just don't really like the design as much". It ******* infuriated me.

What can you do though? I don't think reigning in our best graphic designers is good for the board either tbh.

Would lmach's entry be getting as many votes if it was on the templates being used in the NAFL ressies? I doubt it. But it's literally moved this board forwards in template awesomeness and that deserves votes tbh.

I voted for him this week in my toughest decision of the round.

I've counted 15 different templates out of the 18 entrants, it's crazy. But as you said, it's also a mark of how far this board has come with its creativity. I've previously been an advocate of standardised templates too (a few years back when Omegaville was complaining about Paint designs not getting love) but I think it's all a bit too far gone now.

In the real world execution is just as good as design – there are countless AFL jumpers that have been tarnished by bad templates. I guess to a lesser extent, the NAFL sorts the good from the bad. Which by the way – I reckon everyone here as done an awesome job. I'm so proud to mod this board.

 

[rabbitoh21]

I voted against the Miners strip because of how I thought it would look on a Paint template. I don't vote by template, because it's a footy guernsey "design" forum, not a "template/technical skills" forum.

 

[Bacon Warrior]

I voted against the Miners strip because of how I thought it would look on a Paint template. I don't vote by template, because it's a footy guernsey "design" forum, not a "template/technical skills" forum.

Gradients are still possible for paint users to use should they wish.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I've counted 15 different templates out of the 18 entrants, it's crazy. But as you said, it's also a mark of how far this board has come with its creativity. I've previously been an advocate of standardised templates too (a few years back when Omegaville was complaining about Paint designs not getting love) but I think it's all a bit too far gone now.

In the real world execution is just as good as design – there are countless AFL jumpers that have been tarnished by bad templates. I guess to a lesser extent, the NAFL sorts the good from the bad. Which by the way – I reckon everyone here as done an awesome job. I'm so proud to mod this board.

Yeah I totally agree. It's about that balance of design/execution.

Sometimes one can be so good that it supercedes the other. I think lmach is going to win some rounds of this where he design is probably inferior just because his execution is on another planet at the moment.

It definitely drives the rest of us forward.

 

[Bryce_Jersey17]

I try to vte more often based on what I can see as actually being made as a real jumper. To me, I can see the Miners jumper as an amatuer football club. Same goes for Canberra Owls, Hahndorf and Perth

 

[Jones2ByrneJones]

I try to vte more often based on what I can see as actually being made as a real jumper. To me, I can see the Miners jumper as an amatuer football club. Same goes for Canberra Owls, Hahndorf and Perth

And that's why footy jumper based competitions are inherently boring.

There's only so many things you can do, really, without it being in conjunction with something external, like a logo.

We need more logo based competitions.

 

[rabbitoh21]

Gradients are still possible for paint users to use should they wish.

More as in, it feels like it wouldn't work well if it wasn't so polished, shiny, etc. when against the competition

 

[Gibbsy]

I voted against the Miners strip because of how I thought it would look on a Paint template. I don't vote by template, because it's a footy guernsey "design" forum, not a "template/technical skills" forum.

That is a strange rationale, I must say. When voting, in my mind I consider how every guernsey would look if it was made on the best template (which is arguably lmach's current one). Not how they would look if they were all done on Paint, because it discounts subtleties that may not be possible in a program such as Paint

 

[Gibbsy]

We need more logo based competitions.

Which is great, but logos are harder to create. I'd certainly love to learn though. That tutorial that I bumped the other day (can't remember the author's name, sorry, he's not a regular) and the Logo of the Week competition by El_Scorcho have both promoted and helped the quality of logo design on this board. To watch El_Scorcho in particular progress from rudimentary logo designs to quality, top-class professional logos and kits has been a real treat

 

[Jack Stevens]

I try to vote for the design first, and then if I need to split them, go for the best execution.

But just looking at this poll, the teams that seemingly haven't used Adobe products are all losing by pretty significant margins. Templates definitely make a difference.

Cairns' template could have the paddlepop lion on it and it'd still make finals.

 

[Bacon Warrior]

Hey ScottFreo, aren't you a Paint user? Swear you've mentioned it before.

 

[rabbitoh21]

That is a strange rationale, I must say. When voting, in my mind I consider how every guernsey would look if it was made on the best template (which is arguably lmach's current one). Not how they would look if they were all done on Paint, because it discounts subtleties that may not be possible in a program such as Paint

Yeah, that too. Basically what I try to do is mentally equalise the designs. When I talk about "looking like Paint" I'm talking about what the design would look like flat, also how the design would look if it had thick lines etc. around it, like the competition. For the Sydney one below it, I imagined it as if the lines and all that were smooth and preferred the design as the concept, rather than the result exactly... I personally didn't like the two-tone pink stripe on the blue, I don't think it's a bad guernsey or anything like that, but I preferred the simplicity of the Sydney kit.

 

[Jones2ByrneJones]

Bring back logo otw.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I try to vote for the best design, but for me, 'cleanliness' and overall aesthetics of the product are part of the design's appeal; it's hard to separate the template from that entirely.

The way I see it, an excellent design with an average template will beat a good design with an amazing template; but it can be tough to split the good design with an amazing template and an amazing design with a good template.

 

[Gibbsy]

I try to vote for the design first, and then if I need to split them, go for the best execution.

But just looking at this poll, the teams that seemingly haven't used Adobe products are all losing by pretty significant margins. Templates definitely make a difference.

Cairns' template could have the paddlepop lion on it and it'd still make finals.

I think it probably shows you get out what you put in. Anyone can learn Photoshop or Illustrator, if you make the effort you reap the rewards I guess. I understand that the price of the product is probably a major deterrent for those in the comp who are without an Adobe product (and I can't vouch for free alternatives like Gimp or Inkscape as I simply haven't tried them).

 

[Gibbsy]

Yeah, that too. Basically what I try to do is mentally equalise the designs. When I talk about "looking like Paint" I'm talking about what the design would look like flat, also how the design would look if it had thick lines etc. around it, like the competition. For the Sydney one below it, I imagined it as if the lines and all that were smooth and preferred the design as the concept, rather than the result exactly... I personally didn't like the two-tone pink stripe on the blue, I don't think it's a bad guernsey or anything like that, but I preferred the simplicity of the Sydney kit.

Very fair points As I said I knew the pink was a risk and that some would like it and some wouldn't, all part of the fun in trying!

 

[Bryce_Jersey17]

Cairns' template could have the paddlepop lion on it and it'd still make finals.

Or, turn that idea around and look at Alice Springs. If that was on a simple Paint template, itd barely get more than 10 votes.

Not to mention I'm bitter about losing to a checkerboard

 

[lmach]

Just adding my two cents...

Presentation is key - you can't limit someone because their ability is above others'.

A template is part of the design just like a presentation is part of a website. No matter how good your website is, the client will always pick the other guy's if he gives a better presentation.

It's up to everyone to decide how they want to vote, but you should still take into account the delivery of the design because it's all part of it - it's not just created by a computer program. Illustrator is as good as Paint if you don't how to use it, so people who put the effort in should be rewarded, not penalised.

 

[Greater Gattsby]

The program vs template argument is bullocks(always wanted to say this word) IMO.

There was an average dude that scrolled BigFooty and had awesome designing ability. He won comp after comp. He rose translucent steeds into the sunset. This, ladies and gentlemen, is FJGD folklore.

His name is Smeagle.

Go back and look at his designs, they're much better than most of the things I make. But guess what? He used paint and the regular first generation paint templates in the universal template thread.

 

[Bryce_Jersey17]

The program vs template argument is bullocks(always wanted to say this word) IMO.

There was an average dude that scrolled BigFooty and had awesome designing ability. He won comp after comp. He rose translucent steeds into the sunset. This, ladies and gentlemen, is FJGD folklore.

His name is Smeagle.

Go back and look at his designs, they're much better than most of the things I make. But guess what? He used paint and the regular first generation paint templates in the universal template thread.

But look at when those competitions were. The majority were back when everyone was only using Paint so everyone was on a level playing field and not affected by different programs

 

[akkaps]

But look at when those competitions were. The majority were back when everyone was only using Paint so everyone was on a level playing field and not affected by different programs

I agree that it's a different playing fails between Paint and other software. As a paint user, I find it very difficult to get to and finish to designs that PS users get, especially lmach 's shadowing

 

[Gibbsy]

I agree that it's a different playing fails between Paint and other software. As a paint user, I find it very difficult to get to and finish to designs that PS users get, especially lmach 's shadowing

Serious question, have you tried any other programs?

 

[Andonis1997]

I try to imagine how it would look on an actual real-life player/model...anyone else?

Hey ScottFreo, aren't you a Paint user? Swear you've mentioned it before.

I think he was an illustrator user. He used to have a paint template that he edited to use for Ai.

 

[akkaps]

Serious question, have you tried any other programs?

I have PhotoShop Elements on my PC, but it doesn't allow me to use the folders feature.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Bring back logo otw.

It's always ready to go, we just had a few weeks in a row of like 3 entries so I gave it a rest for a while.

If there is enough interest (say, 15 likes from people who I believe will actually enter on a post suggesting it in the competitions thread) i'll start it up again. If memory serves me we're up to week 31.

The problem was that people felt too intimidated to enter because we had guys like Mowse, Geeky Grub and lmach destroying everyone with their professional graphic design skills. So because people felt they couldn't win, everyone stopped entering.

It was a shame. Seeing 15 different takes on a logo was always really interesting, even if some of them (perfectly understandably) didn't quite have the polish of some of the heavy hitters. The whole idea of the comp was for people to get better at making logos so it was hard to justify running it with nobody electing to enter and develop their skills.