NEAFL 2015

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billybunter said:
Gee LAB1 with the great prizes on offer from 1st to 8th, I am not sure we have the luxury - ...
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great prizes on offer from 1st to 8th ????????? Wow, I'm there baby !! Reckon I'll take the Grimlock approach from now on and get a bit serious. I ran the comp last year and all we had was honourable mentions !
Go LAB1 - you're my new friend........
 
justabaraker said:
I'd be interested to hear from one of you Banana Benders as to why the Lions are so bad.
Why are their guernsey numbers so high (mostly in the 40s and 50s) - the Swans and Giants allocate those numbers to top-ups...do the Lions use a lot of top ups ? If so then why ?
If the Reserves are so weak then it doesn't surprise that the Seniors are weak too - what's happened to the three-peat Premiers of a decade ago ?
By the last quarter, the bench looked like a scene from Kosovo - couldn't put 18 fit players onto the paddock so guys were getting the ice packs taken off their knees (mostly knees) and sent back out to replace someone who was limping even worse !
One fella (Goldy I think), came off with a buggered hand which they iced up then sent him back out. But he was back on the bench within a minute with an ankle that was as buggered as his hand. Iced up again, sent back out and played the rest of the game favouring one hand and one leg.
Crazy !
I watched them on the weekend v Sydney University and they really didn't show much at all - nearly all their goals came from Leigh Harding who I understand to be one of the coaches who is there to nurture, not to kick all the goals !
What's going on with this bottom-of-the-ladder team ?
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It all has to do with recruiting IMO, the Lions recruiting staff travel the country to find young fellows that play super footy in their own junior comps and then in three games in the National Carnivals - But the one thing they don't assess very well (IMO) is can they play against Men!!!! We have more than a few lads up here right under their noses that would slot straight into the reserves, play well enough to win most weeks and also be good enough to cover a spot in the seniors as well.

For some reason the Lions and the Suns are trusting of the old draft system which works for some but not all of the time, when you need to find a gem of worth or two, sometimes you have to look outside the mining lease. Mature age players are in abundance in Leagues all over the country, most of these compared to the current Lions stock, would walk straight into their side.

Lions need a clean out of players who used to be able to play along with the ones that quite clearly cant and then build a side around the few good players they have, apart from Leppa, I would say a few of the very tried but failed coaching staff might be looking for some new employment opportunities next year as well.
If they are happy to sit on the bottom then don't change a thing, but Qlders only love winners and the Lions are on the nose in that department at the moment.
 

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justabaraker said:
great prizes on offer from 1st to 8th ????????? Wow, I'm there baby !! Reckon I'll take the Grimlock approach from now on and get a bit serious. I ran the comp last year and all we had was honourable mentions !
Go LAB1 - you're my new friend........
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An honorable mention on this forum is a great prize - Not too many of these are awarded, ha,ha.
 
billybunter said:
Gee LAB1 with the great prizes on offer from 1st to 8th, I am not sure we have the luxury - Nah just kidding, no problem with me - As justa said - Not a bad strategy if you can luck in on it. I am with justa on the running of the comp as well = Thanks LAB1 great work as usual.
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Billy,on these mythical prizes: you must spend far too much time around the wealthy Football industry where millions can be wasted on Drug dealers mansions and cars.In the community footy world a thank you is all we need.Cheers.
 
justabaraker said:
great prizes on offer from 1st to 8th ????????? Wow, I'm there baby !! Reckon I'll take the Grimlock approach from now on and get a bit serious. I ran the comp last year and all we had was honourable mentions !
Go LAB1 - you're my new friend........
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I think you better talk with Billy about these prizes, resources a scarce as a Karmichael Hunt disposal in this forum.
 
justabaraker said:
Seems I'm not the only one thinking this way............

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-21/suns-lions-seek-better-solution-to-neafl-woes-
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justa,

Quite a lot of interesting reading in this grab above, but in my opinion they still don't get it, the traditional draft systems works for 60% of AFL Clubs, these are the clubs with good solid lists, who have time to bring the young non ready made through to the standard required. The other 40% struggle once they get past pick 3 or in some cases even earlier, Young kids (as Fraser alluded to) just cant handle the body on body each week when playing in the NEAFL and all of the other AFL 2nd tier competitions. The NEAFL (in our case) is a competition that the AFL wanted for their 4 Northern AFL Sides so their reserve teams could compete each week amongst a quality standard - This has backfired on them at this stage, because in most instances the non AFL sides have recruited well for this very reason. The 40% of the clubs which therefore struggle, IMO, should look outside of the traditional draft system (although it is a huge AFL industry created business) which virtually fails anyway for these clubs in time when their boom draft and rookie recruits after the guns have been snapped up. These star junior players who play well in junior competition football, but struggle at even the NEAFL level who we see picked up every year and go on to be playing outside the top level system only after they fail. IMO the clubs who struggle to be competitive should use and select in part to supplement their lists, the big bodied mature aged players we see racking up the best votes each week in their local and even 2nd tier AFL competitions, while playing against the AFL reserve sides in all states - I cant for the life of me fathom the ideal that seems to be currently taken as gospel, that you need a tick from Kevin Sheehan or in NSW & Qld's case Mark Browning to play AFL Football at the top level.
 
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billybunter said:
justa,

Quite a lot of interesting reading in this grab above, but in my opinion they still don't get it, the traditional draft systems works for 60% of AFL Clubs, these are the clubs with good solid lists, who have time to bring the young non ready made through to the standard required. The other 40% struggle once they get past pick 3 or in some cases even earlier, Young kids (as Fraser alluded to) just cant handle the body on body each week when playing in the NEAFL and all of the other AFL 2nd tier competitions. The NEAFL (in our case) is a competition that the AFL wanted for their 4 Northern AFL Sides so their reserve teams could compete each week amongst a quality standard - This has backfired on them at this stage, because in most instances the non AFL sides have recruited well for this very reason. The 40% of the clubs which therefore struggle, IMO, should look outside of the traditional draft system (although it is a huge AFL industry created business) which virtually fails anyway for these clubs in time when their boom draft and rookie recruits after the guns have been snapped up. These star junior players who play well in junior competition football, but struggle at even the NEAFL level who we see picked up every year and go on to be playing outside the top level system only after they fail. IMO the clubs who struggle to be competitive should use and select in part to supplement their lists, the big bodied mature aged players we see racking up the best votes each week in their local and even 2nd tier AFL competitions, while playing against the AFL reserve sides in all states - I cant for the life of me fathom the ideal that seems to be currently taken as gospel, that you need a tick from Kevin Sheehan or in NSW & Qld's case Mark Browning to play AFL Football at the top level.
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Billy, I was hoping the acadamies would remove the captains call mentality that existed.Wow,you are saying this still happens, this is dangerous as Mark has no idea about what a footballer should look like, never has.The whole draft issue is a nonsense anyway, the people who really understand this know that 17 is too young to draft but they survey idiots that played the game and now coach, 90% unsucessfully and they come back with they don't want to deny the ones who are ready an opportunity.I have posted this before years ago but those two are J Selwood and C Judd neither taken at number one and Selwood at 7.Overlooked by the lions for Leuenberger, (another stupidity,never take a ruckman at 17 should be a logical rule for list managers but anyway.)
There is medical evidence to confirm that young men do not mentally fully mature till 23, but the whole draft is built on a mentality of stopping them from choosing other sports ( never base anything on a negative thought process )so this won't change.A whole industry is now built around it.I am watching players now who actually give the chase up quite early because it might not be all what is touted to be, interesting times for our sport especially here in Queensland.
 
Lifes a Beach1 said:
Billy, I was hoping the acadamies would remove the captains call mentality that existed.Wow,you are saying this still happens, this is dangerous as Mark has no idea about what a footballer should look like, never has.The whole draft issue is a nonsense anyway, the people who really understand this know that 17 is too young to draft but they survey idiots that played the game and now coach, 90% unsucessfully and they come back with they don't want to deny the ones who are ready an opportunity.I have posted this before years ago but those two are J Selwood and C Judd neither taken at number one and Selwood at 7.Overlooked by the lions for Leuenberger, (another stupidity,never take a ruckman at 17 should be a logical rule for list managers but anyway.)
There is medical evidence to confirm that young men do not mentally fully mature till 23, but the whole draft is built on a mentality of stopping them from choosing other sports ( never base anything on a negative thought process )so this won't change.A whole industry is now built around it.I am watching players now who actually give the chase up quite early because it might not be all what is touted to be, interesting times for our sport especially here in Queensland.
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Its a sheep mentality unfortunately LAB - there is no rule that says you must be 18 to be drafted that i know of - it only takes 1 club to start consistently successfully recruiting 20-25 yr olds and the whole mind set will change.
Its a false economy really - it is shown that it takes a minimum of $250K to produce an AFL footballer, probably more, when you take into account time spent by assistants, accommodation, pampering bc they are generally a bit immature, average 2-3 years before playing 1st game and certainly 3-5 yrs before playing decent footy. The average life span of an AFL footballer is only 6 yrs so why not make them 6 productive years. Zorko is a classic example - no time spent "developing", just straight into the mix. if he was to get delisted at the end of this year (which he won't) then he has provided better service than 70% of draftees...
Economically it is better too - why spend hundreds of thousands of $$ "developing" a kid from 18-21, then, just as he is ready to step up and play good footy for the club, he decides to head back home.... when you could pick up a bloke at this age and transit him in immediately with another club having done all the "development".
http://aflagents.com.au/our_services/development_and_wellbeing/career_transition/

Look don't get me wrong, think the Academies have their place in this competitive market and certainly what you say LAB is correct re the draft is in place to shelter players from other potential sports. My arguement would be that if Pendles for instance went to basketball as a kid, then who would know the difference in AFL circles? Would we all be sitting around saying how poor the code is bc 1 bloke wasn't playing? (that we had never heard of?)

Being involved in development here in Qld it frustrates me no end when boys don't realise their dream at 18 - and give up. To me this is when the real support should start. Think a club like Brisbane needs a "post tertiary" scenario where they track the progress of certain players till age 21, keep them in their system, provide support etc and then ping them at 21 if they have shown really good progress in this 3 year period post 18's. Much better than getting these early draft picks who f off after 2 years bc they are missing home or whatever reason...

And if you really want to keep them then an idea that i heard Richard Griffiths touting around last year with the Giants which I thought was pretty funny but correct was get them hooked up with a local girl - settle their roots (literally and metaphorically) here in Qld. The Giants feel this is one of their best ways of keeping their list in tact anyway and the guys up here probably have a better choice and a better place to live.. :)
 
Tips Round 15

Grimlock (4) 57
Billybunter (4) 57
Stuyd1 (4) 55
Lifes a Beach1 (4) 54
Pea Nut (4) 52
justabaraker (4) 52
2010Premier (*2) 51
Chikka Ferguson (3) 51

Lots of perfect 4's this week, not much change at the front of the pack.* 2010P taking the no tips chance this week didn't work.Billy saw what you did there changing your tips Friday night, must be running some cunning kind of strategy or very late mail.
 
smy1305 said:
Its a sheep mentality unfortunately LAB - there is no rule that says you must be 18 to be drafted that i know of - it only takes 1 club to start consistently successfully recruiting 20-25 yr olds and the whole mind set will change.
Its a false economy really - it is shown that it takes a minimum of $250K to produce an AFL footballer, probably more, when you take into account time spent by assistants, accommodation, pampering bc they are generally a bit immature, average 2-3 years before playing 1st game and certainly 3-5 yrs before playing decent footy. The average life span of an AFL footballer is only 6 yrs so why not make them 6 productive years. Zorko is a classic example - no time spent "developing", just straight into the mix. if he was to get delisted at the end of this year (which he won't) then he has provided better service than 70% of draftees...
Economically it is better too - why spend hundreds of thousands of $$ "developing" a kid from 18-21, then, just as he is ready to step up and play good footy for the club, he decides to head back home.... when you could pick up a bloke at this age and transit him in immediately with another club having done all the "development".
http://aflagents.com.au/our_services/development_and_wellbeing/career_transition/

Look don't get me wrong, think the Academies have their place in this competitive market and certainly what you say LAB is correct re the draft is in place to shelter players from other potential sports. My arguement would be that if Pendles for instance went to basketball as a kid, then who would know the difference in AFL circles? Would we all be sitting around saying how poor the code is bc 1 bloke wasn't playing? (that we had never heard of?)

Being involved in development here in Qld it frustrates me no end when boys don't realise their dream at 18 - and give up. To me this is when the real support should start. Think a club like Brisbane needs a "post tertiary" scenario where they track the progress of certain players till age 21, keep them in their system, provide support etc and then ping them at 21 if they have shown really good progress in this 3 year period post 18's. Much better than getting these early draft picks who f off after 2 years bc they are missing home or whatever reason...

And if you really want to keep them then an idea that i heard Richard Griffiths touting around last year with the Giants which I thought was pretty funny but correct was get them hooked up with a local girl - settle their roots (literally and metaphorically) here in Qld. The Giants feel this is one of their best ways of keeping their list in tact anyway and the guys up here probably have a better choice and a better place to live.. :)
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Smy hadn't thought of it that way, you are absolutely correct they don't have to just draft the Under 18's but the Industry that surrounds it would have enormous pressure on AFL inc and its limited member subsidiary Boys Club pty ltd to return on all their investments.
Everything you have outlined is sound and logical unfortunately both of us and the many that understand what is actually happening are not part of the decision making process.

Thinking on it overnight, what the AFL needs to do is set up a Community Advisory board that can genuinely have an influence on policy, representative of all sections of the Aussie Rules family that meets and relates to either the Commission or Executive on a regular basis to voice the issues from their parcticular sector.
 
smy1305 said:
Its a sheep mentality unfortunately LAB - there is no rule that says you must be 18 to be drafted that i know of - it only takes 1 club to start consistently successfully recruiting 20-25 yr olds and the whole mind set will change.
Its a false economy really - it is shown that it takes a minimum of $250K to produce an AFL footballer, probably more, when you take into account time spent by assistants, accommodation, pampering bc they are generally a bit immature, average 2-3 years before playing 1st game and certainly 3-5 yrs before playing decent footy. The average life span of an AFL footballer is only 6 yrs so why not make them 6 productive years. Zorko is a classic example - no time spent "developing", just straight into the mix. if he was to get delisted at the end of this year (which he won't) then he has provided better service than 70% of draftees...
Economically it is better too - why spend hundreds of thousands of $$ "developing" a kid from 18-21, then, just as he is ready to step up and play good footy for the club, he decides to head back home.... when you could pick up a bloke at this age and transit him in immediately with another club having done all the "development".
http://aflagents.com.au/our_services/development_and_wellbeing/career_transition/

Look don't get me wrong, think the Academies have their place in this competitive market and certainly what you say LAB is correct re the draft is in place to shelter players from other potential sports. My arguement would be that if Pendles for instance went to basketball as a kid, then who would know the difference in AFL circles? Would we all be sitting around saying how poor the code is bc 1 bloke wasn't playing? (that we had never heard of?)

Being involved in development here in Qld it frustrates me no end when boys don't realise their dream at 18 - and give up. To me this is when the real support should start. Think a club like Brisbane needs a "post tertiary" scenario where they track the progress of certain players till age 21, keep them in their system, provide support etc and then ping them at 21 if they have shown really good progress in this 3 year period post 18's. Much better than getting these early draft picks who f off after 2 years bc they are missing home or whatever reason...

And if you really want to keep them then an idea that i heard Richard Griffiths touting around last year with the Giants which I thought was pretty funny but correct was get them hooked up with a local girl - settle their roots (literally and metaphorically) here in Qld. The Giants feel this is one of their best ways of keeping their list in tact anyway and the guys up here probably have a better choice and a better place to live.. :)
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you have to be 18 before april 30 the year of the draft to be eligible to be selected

http://www.aflrules.com.au/afl-players/afl-draft/
 
damochandler said:
you have to be 18 before april 30 the year of the draft to be eligible to be selected

http://www.aflrules.com.au/afl-players/afl-draft/
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Damo, smy was talking about over the age of 18 not under I believe from the context. I refer to 17 all the time because that is the age they are observing them at. November when they are all 18 is when they are officially drafted but the data gathering and observation happens across the 16 to 17 year age group for the most part.Doesn't change the fact that if they are 17 and one month or 18 they are years too young, AFL clubs would reap greater rewards at early 20's.
 
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Any mail when Gws have their presentation night this year? Last year was night before prelim final. If they are serious the Flag heads South. If not, NEAFL should let the public know in advance. A Aspley and Thunder GF be a beauty. Tio Stadium with 20 000 crowd or Asp with 3000 to host GF depending on who finishes higher on the ladder.
 
chikka ferguson said:
Any mail when Gws have their presentation night this year? Last year was night before prelim final. If they are serious the Flag heads South. If not, NEAFL should let the public know in advance. A Aspley and Thunder GF be a beauty. Tio Stadium with 20 000 crowd or Asp with 3000 to host GF depending on who finishes higher on the ladder.
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chikka,

I like the latter above with Aspley to host another GF this year, but based on what I saw on Saturday arvo at the Gabba, the NEAFL Premiership Cup is going South this year - As you said if they (The Giants) are fair dinkum then even with the listed player rules against a non AFL side, they should not get beaten - Unless the Swans don't make the finals (after Saturday's performance that might be a reality) then it would be a battle of the Sydney AFL Reserve teams for the flag, one would imagine.
 
Lifes a Beach1 said:
Smy hadn't thought of it that way, you are absolutely correct they don't have to just draft the Under 18's but the Industry that surrounds it would have enormous pressure on AFL inc and its limited member subsidiary Boys Club pty ltd to return on all their investments.
Everything you have outlined is sound and logical unfortunately both of us and the many that understand what is actually happening are not part of the decision making process.

Thinking on it overnight, what the AFL needs to do is set up a Community Advisory board that can genuinely have an influence on policy, representative of all sections of the Aussie Rules family that meets and relates to either the Commission or Executive on a regular basis to voice the issues from their parcticular sector.
Click to expand...

Yes - I can guarantee you that there is a certain amount of protectionism surrounding the draft process - I mean why would you spend millions of $$ on a TAC Cup, development, etc and then promote recruitment of blokes 25yrs old. We like to bang on in AFL circles about what a business it is we are involved in yet there are so many examples of it not being run as a business but a closed shop. There is no logical sense to the draft age being 18, it should be 21 and the capacity to draft certain kids a la Selwoods, Judds, who will play senior footy in their 1st year should be allowed for as well. Draft picks 15-80 or whatever it is are just a pure raffle.
 
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