"New drug and two more clubs in AFL doping saga"

[BlueWorld]

Yet to be proven.


What you mean is "time for EFC supporters to hang draw and quarter their club and coach before the official verdict has even been handed down and before EFC are yet to have proven to have broken any WADA/ASADA rules."

Why is the only thing EFC supporters can say in their defense is "yet to be proven", "ASADA have to prove we're guilty". Why do we never hear "we're innocent", "we would never dope", "we can prove we only used legal substances"?

 

[Gigantor]

Why is the only thing EFC supporters can say in their defense is "yet to be proven", "ASADA have to prove we're guilty". Why do we never hear "we're innocent", "we would never dope", "we can prove we only used legal substances"?

That's a statement of fact. That's the way it works. ASADA must prove its case before the tribunal.

 

[blackcat]

Yes you have taken cheating to a level even we would not dare to go to, nor would we try to weasel out of it once caught.

two words

Tony

Doherty

 

[The_Wookie]

That's a statement of fact. That's the way it works. ASADA must prove its case before the tribunal.

You make statements of fact all the time.

 

[Argy]

I am talking about the supporter's reaction. Do you really believe that Essendon supporters passionately defending their club and coach in the face of circumstantial evidence is a response that would differ from supporters of every other club? Do you honestly think Essendon supporters are so special?

Yes, I honestly believe that most other clubs would have sacked the coach.

Carlton supporters would go down with the ship if their club was in the same position as ours and don't pretend any differently.

Most supporters back their clubs in tough times. Your problem is the path EFC has taken. Their behaviour is bizarre. They evidently know enough to have sacked a few individuals, but they have refused to sack the one person who said he took full responsibility (even if it was a lie when he said it). They have been tricky with words and tried to wage a PR war that has badly backfired.

 

[BlueWorld]

Yes, I honestly believe that most other clubs would have sacked the coach.
Most supporters back their clubs in tough times. Your problem is the path EFC has taken. Their behaviour is bizarre. They evidently know enough to have sacked a few individuals, but they have refused to sack the one person who said he took full responsibility (even if it was a lie when he said it). They have been tricky with words and tried to wage a PR war that has badly backfired.

I think they were going to sack Hird around the time he launched his appeal but something suddenly prevented them from doing that. Will be interesting to see what happens should the players be banned and/ or the appeal fails.

 

[Laphroaig]

I think they were going to sack Hird around the time he launched his appeal but something suddenly prevented them from doing that. Will be interesting to see what happens should the players be banned and/ or the appeal fails.

The Essendoncentric version of that was that the membership rebelled in droves and made it clear "thou shalt not diss James Albert".

I suspect it's more likely that his lawyers muttered about just how ugly it might get if the Club sacked an employee for pursuing legal remedy. No matter how transparently self serving and cynical that exercise might be.

Anyhoo, we're informed that the new crop of Board members at EFC are rusted on congregation of the Church of Hird. In that light one wonders if anything in the world could move them to fire him.

Apparently highly suspicious behavior around doping his players, followed by refusal to heed their wishes that he refrain from further legal challenge (but I'm doing it for the players) is not enough. One suspects that if a Rentboy was found bound and gagged in the boot of his car it would be obviously because compassionate James had rescued him and was giving him a lift home.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Yes, I honestly believe that most other clubs would have sacked the coach.

Fair enough for you to think that. But a team in a similar position Cronulla didn't sack their coach even after their players copped suspensions.

Most supporters back their clubs in tough times. Your problem is the path EFC has taken. Their behaviour is bizarre. They evidently know enough to have sacked a few individuals, but they have refused to sack the one person who said he took full responsibility (even if it was a lie when he said it). They have been tricky with words and tried to wage a PR war that has badly backfired.

We have sacked the people who failed in their roles of making sure the high performance team was kept in check and were following correct procedures. Not matter what Hird says about taking responsibility, he is not in the chain of command for the group of people who broke protocols and got us into this mess.

The PR "war" and the media performances of Paul Little have been shocking, I agree, but that's just a mini side-story.

 

[yaco55]

How do we know they got off Scot free

I remember reading it ( online ) in the report provided by ASADA detailing the broad case against the players - It could have been parts of the Interim report.

 

[Argy]

Fair enough for you to think that. But a team in a similar position Cronulla didn't sack their coach even after their players copped suspensions.

I haven't seen any evidence other than what is in the public domain, However, I do have personal knowledge of the reaction of a high ranking official in the AFLPA. He wants Hird banned for life. He wouldn't elaborate why.

We have sacked the people who failed in their roles of making sure the high performance team was kept in check and were following correct procedures. Not matter what Hird says about taking responsibility, he is not in the chain of command for the group of people who broke protocols and got us into this mess.

Bullshit. Even if you put spin it the best way possible he knew that the players were being injected with experimental substances and knew that the doctor had grave reservations. He failed his duty of care to the players. He should have been sacked on the spot the moment this came to light.

 

[blackcat]

I haven't seen any evidence other than what is in the public domain, However, I do have personal knowledge of the reaction of a high ranking official in the AFLPA. He wants Hird banned for life. He wouldn't elaborate why.

Hird performed excellence in his career. he demanded excellence. It comes at a price, and most just cant understand how excellence crowds out the etiquette of everyday

*excellence in italics as noun

caveat: I am not in the production of excellence, and not the genius of Boris Johnson and Kevin Pietersen, but i can definitely savour and appreciate it.

medusala

 

[Gigantor]

Hird performed excellence in his career. he demanded excellence. It comes at a price, and most just cant understand how excellence crowds out the etiquette of everyday

*excellence in italics as noun

caveat: I am not in the production of excellence, and not the genius of Boris Johnson and Kevin Pietersen, but i can definitely savour and appreciate it.

medusala

Excellence is occasionally accompanied by etiquette.

 

[Blaze Storm]

Hird performed excellence in his career. he demanded excellence. It comes at a price, and most just cant understand how excellence crowds out the etiquette of everyday

*excellence in italics as noun

caveat: I am not in the production of excellence, and not the genius of Boris Johnson and Kevin Pietersen, but i can definitely savour and appreciate it.

medusala

Sorry, I'm going to be "that guy" and point out that "excellence" is always a noun. "Excellent" is the adjective, as "excel" is the verb.

 

[blackcat]

Sorry, I'm going to be "that guy" and point out that "excellence" is always a noun. "Excellent" is the adjective, as "excel" is the verb.

thats ok.

my point was I intended to use it. Otherwise, folks could have said, the actual grammatically correct version would be to say Hird excelled, Hird was excellent on field, embodiment on excellent(sic) on the G etc.

i was writing for rhetoric.

 

[blackcat]

Excellence is occasionally accompanied by etiquette.

point recognised. was a false dichotomy for my point, yes i was erring

 

[SBYM]

i was writing for rhetoric.

When, however, speech is considered as an art, we find that it is the function of Grammar to order its expression; of Dialectic to give it point; of Rhetoric to illustrate it; of Philosophy to perfect it.
Aeneas Silvius Piccolomini, De Librorum Educatione (1450)

If any of youse can't sleep I'd be happy to send through some more...

 

[blackcat]

When, however, speech is considered as an art, we find that it is the function of Grammar to order its expression; of Dialectic to give it point; of Rhetoric to illustrate it; of Philosophy to perfect it.
Aeneas Silvius Piccolomini, De Librorum Educatione (1450)

If any of youse can't sleep I'd be happy to send through some more...

but the definition used there, is concerning speech. lecture.

Hird does excellent. Hird did excellent. I was not wishing to use the adverb. Hird does professionalism. It was quite intentional. Grammatically, one can poke holes in it, without the context. hence, I added the brackets (noun)

 

[blackcat]

point recognised. was a false dichotomy for my point, yes i was erring

no you erred.

yes, i erred.

 

[SBYM]

but the definition used there, is concerning speech. lecture.

Hird does excellent. Hird did excellent. I was not wishing to use the adverb. Hird does professionalism. It was quite intentional. Grammatically, one can poke holes in it, without the context. hence, I added the brackets (noun)

Nah...I'm with ya. Just sharing...

 

[blackcat]

Nah...I'm with ya. Just sharing...

when i drop in inadvertant alliteration i will type alliteration or exclamation mark to send it up, being facetious. ok, some may not understand, but i dont post for others understanding, that is quite obvious!

 

[SBYM]

when i drop in inadvertant alliteration i will type alliteration or exclamation mark to send it up, being facetious. ok, some may not understand, but i dont post for others understanding, that is quite obvious!

Much more enjoyable than the dribble that abounds in these parts.

 

[SunshineBoy]

It is reassuring to know our club has not engaged in a playing-list wide doping program, putting trust in a charlatan who did not give a s**t about the welfare of the players.

It is good to know though that this doping program, that has got the EFC into such deep s**t, commenced not long after we belted the EFC in an Elimination Final. A thrashing which no doubt made Hird realise that (a) he did not have the coaching nous to win a premiership (not surprising for someone whose only coaching experience was at junior level) & (b) did not have the playing list to win a premiership therefore chose to bring in the likes of Dank & Robinson to try & cheat his way to a premiership.

It may have worked in the past,only then it was called dietary advice.

 

[DonsRule]

I haven't seen any evidence other than what is in the public domain, However, I do have personal knowledge of the reaction of a high ranking official in the AFLPA. He wants Hird banned for life. He wouldn't elaborate why.

Bullshit. Even if you put spin it the best way possible he knew that the players were being injected with experimental substances and knew that the doctor had grave reservations. He failed his duty of care to the players. He should have been sacked on the spot the moment this came to light.

I'm more that willing to see Hird go if players are found guilty. Or if he is with any charges from ASADA.

But I have no trust in anything from the AFLPA during this saga, aside from they did little more than act as a proxies for the AFL in my view, rather than stand up for the Essendon players they represent..

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

I'm more that willing to see Hird go if players are found guilty. Or if he is with any charges from ASADA.

But I have no trust in anything from the AFLPA during this saga, aside from they did little more than act as a proxies for the AFL in my view, rather than stand up for the Essendon players they represent..

If it turns out that EFC have not managed the players well in all of this, then yes, I'd agree that AFLPA haven't done enough to seperate player interests from club interests.

Someone else in the past week or so did raise a good alternate point relating to AFLPA and non-EFC players, in that they also have to juggle the interests of the other AFL players.

If one club has systematically doped that many players in one program, then there would also be some interest from those other players in ensuring that are suitably penalised - otherwise we are in a rapid race to the bottom for player care and well-being in the future?

 

[yaco55]

If it turns out that EFC have not managed the players well in all of this, then yes, I'd agree that AFLPA haven't done enough to seperate player interests from club interests.

Someone else in the past week or so did raise a good alternate point relating to AFLPA and non-EFC players, in that they also have to juggle the interests of the other AFL players.

If one club has systematically doped that many players in one program, then there would also be some interest from those other players in ensuring that are suitably penalised - otherwise we are in a rapid race to the bottom for player care and well-being in the future?

All you can go on, is that EFC players through their proxies felt they didn't get enough support from the AFLPA through 2013 - It appears that players are happier in 2014 - Though this could be related to the change of CEO.