Other New Patriots Scandal - DeflateGate

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Dungy: NFL needs to restrict New England’s substitution game

Lost amid the furor over #DeflateGate is New England’s newfound penchant for playing the ineligible-eligible receiver game. Whether it’s a player wearing an ineligible number reporting as an eligible receiver or a player wearing an eligible number reporting as an ineligible receiver, the Patriots have begun aggressively using the tactic in an obvious effort to confuse defenses regarding who will be running a pass route and who won’t be.

“The NFL is going to have to do something about the Patriots’ ineligible-eligible substitution game,” former NFL head coach and current NBC Sports analyst Tony Dungy told PFT by email on Friday. “It is nothing but an intent to deceive and they are doing it very well. They’re reporting so fast and going so quickly the defense can’t respond. In fact, the officials can’t keep up.”

Dungy believes the officials missed a pair of penalties with this maneuver during the postseason.


“In the Baltimore game, [Shane] Vereen reported as ineligible several times,” Dungy explained. “If he stays in the game he must report again and continue to be ineligible. He must come out of the game for one play or there has to be a time out for him to play as an eligible receiver. On the touchdown drive Vereen played one play as ineligible and then played the next play in an eligible position. There should have been a penalty.”


The officials also missed a penalty in the game against the Colts, according to Dungy.


“[Nate] Solder reported as eligible correctly but [receiver Brandon] LaFell lined up on the line of scrimmage as if Solder was a tackle,” Dungy said. “There should have been a penalty for illegal formation. But it happened too fast for the officials.”

The problem is that the Patriots often are taking a legal maneuver and combining it with a hurry-up offense to confuse both the defense and the officials. At field level, the audio from the referee’s microphone isn’t as clear as it is for folks in the seats or who are watching the game at home. Along with the overall confusion that arises when a team tries to snap the ball quickly, it becomes too much for a defense to fairly process — which is one of the reasons New England does it.

In Dungy’s view, it’s no different than making quick personnel changes in a no-huddle attack or using extra players in the huddle who run off the field seconds before the snap. The defense needs to have a fair chance to know who they’ll be facing, and until the NFL stops the Patriots from deliberately confusing defenses and rushing to the line to snap the ball, the only way to combat the scheme will be for defenses to bend a rule or two of their own.

Dungy said that, if he were coaching the Seahawks, he’d reluctantly tell the players to fake defensive injuries in the Super Bowl to counter New England’s tactic.

“It’s something I’m totally against doing but I would certainly tell my players to do it rather than have the NFL issue an apology the next day after we lost a Super Bowl,” Dungy said, adding he would do it only as a last resort.

The fact that Dungy would even consider that approach proves how strongly he feels about a tactic he believes the NFL should prevent the Patriots from utilizing in Super Bowl XLIX.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...s-to-restrict-new-englands-substitution-game/
 
JeffDunne said:
Dungy: NFL needs to restrict New England’s substitution game

Lost amid the furor over #DeflateGate is New England’s newfound penchant for playing the ineligible-eligible receiver game. Whether it’s a player wearing an ineligible number reporting as an eligible receiver or a player wearing an eligible number reporting as an ineligible receiver, the Patriots have begun aggressively using the tactic in an obvious effort to confuse defenses regarding who will be running a pass route and who won’t be.

“The NFL is going to have to do something about the Patriots’ ineligible-eligible substitution game,” former NFL head coach and current NBC Sports analyst Tony Dungy told PFT by email on Friday. “It is nothing but an intent to deceive and they are doing it very well. They’re reporting so fast and going so quickly the defense can’t respond. In fact, the officials can’t keep up.”

Dungy believes the officials missed a pair of penalties with this maneuver during the postseason.


“In the Baltimore game, [Shane] Vereen reported as ineligible several times,” Dungy explained. “If he stays in the game he must report again and continue to be ineligible. He must come out of the game for one play or there has to be a time out for him to play as an eligible receiver. On the touchdown drive Vereen played one play as ineligible and then played the next play in an eligible position. There should have been a penalty.”


The officials also missed a penalty in the game against the Colts, according to Dungy.


“[Nate] Solder reported as eligible correctly but [receiver Brandon] LaFell lined up on the line of scrimmage as if Solder was a tackle,” Dungy said. “There should have been a penalty for illegal formation. But it happened too fast for the officials.”

The problem is that the Patriots often are taking a legal maneuver and combining it with a hurry-up offense to confuse both the defense and the officials. At field level, the audio from the referee’s microphone isn’t as clear as it is for folks in the seats or who are watching the game at home. Along with the overall confusion that arises when a team tries to snap the ball quickly, it becomes too much for a defense to fairly process — which is one of the reasons New England does it.

In Dungy’s view, it’s no different than making quick personnel changes in a no-huddle attack or using extra players in the huddle who run off the field seconds before the snap. The defense needs to have a fair chance to know who they’ll be facing, and until the NFL stops the Patriots from deliberately confusing defenses and rushing to the line to snap the ball, the only way to combat the scheme will be for defenses to bend a rule or two of their own.

Dungy said that, if he were coaching the Seahawks, he’d reluctantly tell the players to fake defensive injuries in the Super Bowl to counter New England’s tactic.

“It’s something I’m totally against doing but I would certainly tell my players to do it rather than have the NFL issue an apology the next day after we lost a Super Bowl,” Dungy said, adding he would do it only as a last resort.

The fact that Dungy would even consider that approach proves how strongly he feels about a tactic he believes the NFL should prevent the Patriots from utilizing in Super Bowl XLIX.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...s-to-restrict-new-englands-substitution-game/
Click to expand...
More importantly:

Dungy said that, if he were coaching the Seahawks, he’d reluctantly tell the players to fake defensive injuries in the Super Bowl to counter New England’s tactic.

“It’s something I’m totally against doing but I would certainly tell my players to do it rather than have the NFL issue an apology the next day after we lost a Super Bowl,” Dungy said, adding he would do it only as a last resort.

The fact that Dungy would even consider that approach proves how strongly he feels about a tactic he believes the NFL should prevent the Patriots from utilizing in Super Bowl XLIX.
Click to expand...

Pot, kettle, black?

Shouldn't the coach use a timeout if he can't keep up with the offence?
 

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JeffDunne said:
Dungy: NFL needs to restrict New England’s substitution game

Lost amid the furor over #DeflateGate is New England’s newfound penchant for playing the ineligible-eligible receiver game. Whether it’s a player wearing an ineligible number reporting as an eligible receiver or a player wearing an eligible number reporting as an ineligible receiver, the Patriots have begun aggressively using the tactic in an obvious effort to confuse defenses regarding who will be running a pass route and who won’t be.

“The NFL is going to have to do something about the Patriots’ ineligible-eligible substitution game,” former NFL head coach and current NBC Sports analyst Tony Dungy told PFT by email on Friday. “It is nothing but an intent to deceive and they are doing it very well. They’re reporting so fast and going so quickly the defense can’t respond. In fact, the officials can’t keep up.”

Dungy believes the officials missed a pair of penalties with this maneuver during the postseason.


“In the Baltimore game, [Shane] Vereen reported as ineligible several times,” Dungy explained. “If he stays in the game he must report again and continue to be ineligible. He must come out of the game for one play or there has to be a time out for him to play as an eligible receiver. On the touchdown drive Vereen played one play as ineligible and then played the next play in an eligible position. There should have been a penalty.”


The officials also missed a penalty in the game against the Colts, according to Dungy.


“[Nate] Solder reported as eligible correctly but [receiver Brandon] LaFell lined up on the line of scrimmage as if Solder was a tackle,” Dungy said. “There should have been a penalty for illegal formation. But it happened too fast for the officials.”

The problem is that the Patriots often are taking a legal maneuver and combining it with a hurry-up offense to confuse both the defense and the officials. At field level, the audio from the referee’s microphone isn’t as clear as it is for folks in the seats or who are watching the game at home. Along with the overall confusion that arises when a team tries to snap the ball quickly, it becomes too much for a defense to fairly process — which is one of the reasons New England does it.

In Dungy’s view, it’s no different than making quick personnel changes in a no-huddle attack or using extra players in the huddle who run off the field seconds before the snap. The defense needs to have a fair chance to know who they’ll be facing, and until the NFL stops the Patriots from deliberately confusing defenses and rushing to the line to snap the ball, the only way to combat the scheme will be for defenses to bend a rule or two of their own.

Dungy said that, if he were coaching the Seahawks, he’d reluctantly tell the players to fake defensive injuries in the Super Bowl to counter New England’s tactic.

“It’s something I’m totally against doing but I would certainly tell my players to do it rather than have the NFL issue an apology the next day after we lost a Super Bowl,” Dungy said, adding he would do it only as a last resort.

The fact that Dungy would even consider that approach proves how strongly he feels about a tactic he believes the NFL should prevent the Patriots from utilizing in Super Bowl XLIX.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...s-to-restrict-new-englands-substitution-game/
Click to expand...


the campaigners really need a good dose of karma.
 
Did “The Enforcer” miss chance to avoid #DeflateGate?
Posted by Mike Florio on January 23, 2015, 5:58 PM EST
1101121217_600.jpg

As the Super Bowl approaches and #DeflateGate continues to provide a dark cloud over what otherwise would have been an exciting prelude to an unpredictable encounter between two evenly-matched juggernauts, some league insiders wonder whether the entire mess could have been avoided.

Regardless of anyone’s personal feelings about the Patriots and their reputation for pushing the limits of the rule book, those who love football and care about the NFL can’t help but wonder whether the NFL should have handled the current situation differently. Based on published reports, the league knew that teams suspected the Patriots of using deflated footballs. Instead of privately telling the Patriots to knock it off, the NFL set up, essentially, a sting operation aimed at catching the Patriots in the act.

There’s a sense that former Commissioners like Paul Tagliabue wouldn’t have tried to lay a trap for the Patriots. As one league source explained it to PFT on Friday, Tagliabue would have tried to avoid creating a controversy that mars the Super Bowl by calling the Patriots, telling them that concerns have been raised about the inflation of the footballs, and that the balls will be tested during the game so they’d better knock it off. For Roger Goodell, dubbed “The Enforcer” in a Time cover story from 2012, nabbing those who break the rules becomes a key strategy to deter rule breaking.

The source suggested that the commissioner of any sport should be less like an enforcer and more like a wedding planner, looking for ways to solve problems before they become problems instead of solving problems by making examples out of the problem children. While some would say the rules are the rules and it’s important to catch those who fail to respect them, a more discreet approach would have kept this from ever becoming an issue by telling the Patriots to stop doing whatever they may be doing before it becomes a major to-do.

Instead, the ultimate reality show has been dealing with a new reality that may cause some fans to question the legitimacy of the competitions that they see in person or on TV.
 
That's giving the NFL too much credit. My sense at this time is that Belichick will be allowed to play out the superbowl as will Brady and then the NFL will hammer them with lost draft picks, suspensions for belichick and possibly other coaching staff and then fines.

The statement of the NFL is not positive for the Pats. It reads like bureaucratic speak for we will give the pats every chance to clear themselves and then......
 
From Pete King from SI.......

  • The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.
  • All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.
  • All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.
The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.
Click to expand...

So can we say now the refs did not stuff up the pre-game check and the weather was not a factor.
 
GG said:
Roger Goodell's Legacy?

The door hit him on the way out.
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I am not pro pats or not, really trying to keep a neutral view.

But a cynical person might say that if he hammers the pats some of that goodwill that he has lost might come back.
 
ausbacker said:
Outside of the fact that it's been proven by physics that it may be possible and even plausible for balls to deflate under different weather conditions, you're spot on.

You're not being reasonable. I'll be ignoring you on this topic until you provide categorical proof that the Patriots cheated. If you do so, as I have mentioned before, I have no problem updating my position.
Click to expand...

Christ. Ben Cousins never did drugs then. Someone call the Herald Sun.


My view is no one will ever prove who from the Pats was behind it but it's clear if you aren't a halfwit or a Pats pom-pom wearing fan someone from the Pats is culpable since the balls were confirmed good, then returned to the Pats, and somewhere between then and the half time testing the balls got irregularly deflated. The Pats will be fined and stripped of draft picks but no individual will be held accountable.
 

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TheGreatBarryB said:
So can we say now the refs did not stuff up the pre-game check and the weather was not a factor.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't have even been a piece of the puzzle. Over 100 years of football in cold weather outdoors, and all of a sudden just last week it happens. C'mon man! Not even defective balls would that happen to. Wilson's brand put under question vs Brady/Belichick put under question. Yeah.

Some Pats fans in here STILL think the Pats weren't proven to be guilty in SpyGate.
 
Zealbee said:
Why didn't any of the Colts balls deflate then?
Click to expand...

This is the big thing for me...


If you want to use the laws of physics to say thats a possible reason for ball deflation, then you'd have to admit that those same laws apply to the Colts balls.

There is human interference in there somewhere...
 
PHX said:
Christ. Ben Cousins never did drugs then. Someone call the Herald Sun.


My view is no one will ever prove who from the Pats was behind it but it's clear if you aren't a halfwit or a Pats pom-pom wearing fan someone from the Pats is culpable since the balls were confirmed good, then returned to the Pats, and somewhere between then and the half time testing the balls got irregularly deflated. The Pats will be fined and stripped of draft picks but no individual will be held accountable.
Click to expand...

Not so sure about that.
 
PHX said:
Christ. Ben Cousins never did drugs then. Someone call the Herald Sun.


My view is no one will ever prove who from the Pats was behind it but it's clear if you aren't a halfwit or a Pats pom-pom wearing fan someone from the Pats is culpable since the balls were confirmed good, then returned to the Pats, and somewhere between then and the half time testing the balls got irregularly deflated. The Pats will be fined and stripped of draft picks but no individual will be held accountable.
Click to expand...
Well **** me, a Baltimore fan crying about the Pats. Colour me surprised.

Find the culprit then do whatever needs to be done. If you don't, acquit and move on. It's not difficult.
 
JeffDunne said:
Ironic post is ironic. :)
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Like you can talk! Anything New Orleans you are all over like a rash! :p

Not this boards fault no one talks about them though after bounty gate and your team trying to injure other players in the most dog act ways.
 
GG said:
NFL video surveillance of the Patriots lockerroom.....you know they'll see Tom Brady standing there with Equipment Manager as he or after he has deflated them, Brady grabbing a few, squeezing them, and nodding his head.....that video will not be released, but will be burned to protect Brady's legacy.
Click to expand...
I don't reckon that video will exist.

The Pats have been doing this for some time so I'd imagine whoever handles the balls knows exactly what to do.
 
Chism said:
Like you can talk! Anything New Orleans you are all over like a rash! :p

Not this boards fault no one talks about them though after bounty gate and your team trying to injure other players in the most dog act ways.
Click to expand...
Remind me . . . who was talking about Dallas?

Oh . . . :$
 
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