2nds Official Swans Academy Thread (Player News and Discussion)

[BarneyBent]

Callum Mills (NSW –Mid)
Weight: 73 kg
Height: 186 cm
Style: Travis Boak
If you think Eddie was pissed about the academies this year then he will be livid about Callum Mills this year. The best player this year and would go 1-2 in an open draft. Averaged 22 disposals and 32 in the TAC cup. The best playing style that I could compare to is Travis Boak because of how spread out his stat line is. He reminds me also of glimpses of Marc Murphy in his draft year. Will probably captain the NSW squad and could take them to back to back Div 2 titles for the second time in 15 years.

Josh Dunkley (VicC –Mid)
Weight: 84 kg
Height: 187 cm
Style: Jarryd McVeigh
The Swans are set again for another steal with Dunkley and Mills both going to the Swan Lake in Harbor Town. Dunkley is and inside midfielder that does it all and can’t be shut out for too long because they will send him forward and let him slot a few and then go back and create drive from the backline. If he could get his efficiency to about 70-75 then he could easily become u18 All Australian and make Eddie McGuire complain in length to the AFL. He could become the replacement for Jarryd McVeigh in the future.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...les-for-the-2015-draft.1085573/#post-36660503

McVeigh seems an odd comparison for Dunkley. Kennedy seems a more appropriate comparison to me.

 

[SimonH]

The AFL has quite emphatically demonstrated that they will do whatever it takes to stop us.
They don't want to make it harder for us, they want to stop us. The only way to do that is to change the rules so that we can only get one.
IMO, they will change the rules so that they can only affect what we do. i.e. we can't get BOTH academy AND father son's for unders.

The simplest formula will be to change the father/son rules so that if another club bids a first round on Dunkley, and we're committing to Mills with our first round, we don't get Dunkley. The rules would only need to be tweaked slightly, essentially to say that once a F/S bid has been placed on a player, in order to gazump the market and secure the player the F/S club needs to bid its next pick within the same round, and if it doesn't have a next pick within the same round for any reason (e.g. because it's been committed to an Academy player) then bad luck: it misses out. Of course, given the ridiculous bargains rolled up to Victorian clubs over the years for F/S, and almost zero going to non-Victorian clubs, it would simply be an amazing coincidence if 2015 is the year to further tighten the F/S system—just when a Sydney club looks like getting a good deal.

Changing the Academy system could never stop us from getting Mills, because a club that has an academy player can only pay what it has, and it would be an unworkable nightmare to tie the academy bidding system to a trade week that (on the 2014 timeline) hasn't occurred yet (e.g. you can get Mills only if you offload an elite player and get another first round pick for him, then bid both first-round picks). Leaving aside the vagaries of trading (and the inherent insanity of the whole idea), it would be a legally dubious restraint of trade to tie the contracting of one player to the trading-out of another.

 

[RUNVS]

The simplest formula will be to change the father/son rules so that if another club bids a first round on Dunkley, and we're committing to Mills with our first round, we don't get Dunkley. The rules would only need to be tweaked slightly, essentially to say that once a F/S bid has been placed on a player, in order to gazump the market and secure the player the F/S club needs to bid its next pick within the same round, and if it doesn't have a next pick within the same round for any reason (e.g. because it's been committed to an Academy player) then bad luck: it misses out. Of course, given the ridiculous bargains rolled up to Victorian clubs over the years for F/S, and almost zero going to non-Victorian clubs, it would simply be an amazing coincidence if 2015 is the year to further tighten the F/S system—just when a Sydney club looks like getting a good deal.

Changing the Academy system could never stop us from getting Mills, because a club that has an academy player can only pay what it has, and it would be an unworkable nightmare to tie the academy bidding system to a trade week that (on the 2014 timeline) hasn't occurred yet (e.g. you can get Mills only if you offload an elite player and get another first round pick for him, then bid both first-round picks). Leaving aside the vagaries of trading (and the inherent insanity of the whole idea), it would be a legally dubious restraint of trade to tie the contracting of one player to the trading-out of another.

and if that were the case what the Swans would have to do is find one of our B grade players and get pick 15 or something for them. There would be no incentive to trade a better play that we could get a high draft pick for because in this case pick 15 is worth the same as pick 5.

 

[swansfan51]

McLachlan has strongly suggested it will be a points based system. IE draft pick 1 is worth 1000 points, #2 is worth 900 points, #40 is worth 200 points or however they work it out. The details haven't been released, but the idea is you will need to reach a high enough amount of points.

 

[RUNVS]

McLachlan has strongly suggested it will be a points based system. IE draft pick 1 is worth 1000 points, #2 is worth 900 points, #40 is worth 200 points or however they work it out. The details haven't been released, but the idea is you will need to reach a high enough amount of points.

That makes sense and I am okay with that as long as it is reasonable and as long as we can trade in picks we might need. For instance we might need pick 34 or something to get over the points required so the Swans need to be given the opportunity to trade for a pick under pick 34 to get the needed points.

 

[Swansujelly]

That makes sense and I am okay with that as long as it is reasonable and as long as we can trade in picks we might need. For instance we might need pick 34 or something to get over the points required so the Swans need to be given the opportunity to trade for a pick under pick 34 to get the needed points.

also means teams that we are trading with know what points we need an can ask overs.

 

[RUNVS]

also means teams that we are trading with know what points we need an can ask overs.

That is true. We would just have to hope that one team within about 5 picks of what we want would be reasonable and accept a good deal if it came their way.

 

[nottenthagain]

also means teams that we are trading with know what points we need an can ask overs.

Exactly, also means the initial bidding team could play the game and go overs knowing they'll then be in the range to get something off us in a later round. Which is essentially draft tampering.

 

[Membling]

The simplest formula will be to change the father/son rules so that if another club bids a first round on Dunkley, and we're committing to Mills with our first round, we don't get Dunkley. The rules would only need to be tweaked slightly, essentially to say that once a F/S bid has been placed on a player, in order to gazump the market and secure the player the F/S club needs to bid its next pick within the same round, and if it doesn't have a next pick within the same round for any reason (e.g. because it's been committed to an Academy player) then bad luck: it misses out. Of course, given the ridiculous bargains rolled up to Victorian clubs over the years for F/S, and almost zero going to non-Victorian clubs, it would simply be an amazing coincidence if 2015 is the year to further tighten the F/S system—just when a Sydney club looks like getting a good deal.

Changing the Academy system could never stop us from getting Mills, because a club that has an academy player can only pay what it has, and it would be an unworkable nightmare to tie the academy bidding system to a trade week that (on the 2014 timeline) hasn't occurred yet (e.g. you can get Mills only if you offload an elite player and get another first round pick for him, then bid both first-round picks). Leaving aside the vagaries of trading (and the inherent insanity of the whole idea), it would be a legally dubious restraint of trade to tie the contracting of one player to the trading-out of another.

This formula would essentially not allow a club a right of reply. If it did it would unfair hamstring the club with access to the talent. Easer system: open up academies to all club in NSW and Qld instead of tinkering with draft. Win for everyone

 

[Skeparovic]

Josh Dunkley saying all the right things by hedging his bets to recruiters but will still be a blood come November 2015!

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-14/tough-start-for-top-talent

As well as the players and staff, there are 14 clubs represented on the tour by AFL recruiters, and we were introduced to them this morning.

Having spent last week training at Hawthorn and some time at the Sydney Swans late last year, I know a few of the recruiters and the tour will be a good chance to get to know them better.

Scott Clayton from Gold Coast spoke to us and said they see the trip as a valuable exercise in observing how we interact, behave and conduct ourselves, and I think we all understand that.

A lot of people have asked me about the Swans and whether I would like to go there as a father-son player if the opportunity comes up later in the year.

At this point in time there's still so much water to flow under the bridge and so many things to work on, and I haven't really thought about it too much.

 

[nottenthagain]

Josh Dunkley saying all the right things by hedging his bets to recruiters but will still be a blood come November 2015!

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-14/tough-start-for-top-talent

As well as the players and staff, there are 14 clubs represented on the tour by AFL recruiters, and we were introduced to them this morning.

Having spent last week training at Hawthorn and some time at the Sydney Swans late last year, I know a few of the recruiters and the tour will be a good chance to get to know them better.

Scott Clayton from Gold Coast spoke to us and said they see the trip as a valuable exercise in observing how we interact, behave and conduct ourselves, and I think we all understand that.

A lot of people have asked me about the Swans and whether I would like to go there as a father-son player if the opportunity comes up later in the year.

At this point in time there's still so much water to flow under the bridge and so many things to work on, and I haven't really thought about it too much.

He should nominate the Swans and be done with it.... it would also assist in keeping my blood pressure down.

I just couldn't imagine a Dunkley playing anywhere other than the Swans. His old man was one of my favourite Swans players of all time

 

[Swansujelly]

Collingwood perhaps, if he's close to the Pendles. He's no done deal yet.

 

[Swansujelly]

Trying to take my blood stained glasses off for a second; I think that while we put the money in for the academies, just like any other club, we shouldn't automatically have an advantage over other clubs solely due to us putting up the $$. It's for development and expansion of the code in the non-traditional states. If it was Collingwood paying to develop it's own future "academy" draft picks I can see how I'd feel that was unfair and want it 'corrected" too... And to be honest, while the academies are designed to grow the game, if I was running our club, I'd be trying to get full value out of them, even if it seemed "unfair" to the other Vic clubs (so long as it's within the rules of course).

However, most of the hate coming our way over this is from those who have a plethora of young talent with a burning desire/passion for the game. They've been watching it since they could remember and would love to play for their beloved VIC/WA/SA club. Perhaps it's the club their father/uncle/grandfather etc played for? It's close to where they grew up & where they want to live. It's easy, cheaper and they have a support & social network established. Post footy opportunities abound in media, schools/coaching etc.

Now compare that to a young lad living in/near Brissy/Sydney? What options do they have? Follow the minority code, that if you're any good at you'll have to go to VIC/SA/WA to play. Or, like the example above, choose the code all your mates are playing? The code that has the association your family/friends/history is probably more attached... Perhaps your father/grandfather/uncle played for the Dragons or Broncos. If you're any good you might get to play for them too, living amongst family & friends (support/social network). You can retire knowing you have a better chance at post-footy involvement in the game given it's popularity over the alternative...

The issue stems down to how much value should we be getting out of the academies and ultimately how can you value someone who hasn't played a game?! Can you imagine "valuing" a draft pick at Boyd or Buddy level and then all you get is a Watts or Tambling... Sheesh, harsh, but that's the nature of the draft. The AFL wants a competitive Sydney, GWS, Brissy & GC and will basically draft tamper to ensure it happens the way they want. Best midfielder (Ablett) to GC, best Fwd (Buddy) to GWS, happy days. Wait... Buddy to Sydney!?.... Ok then, maybe the "advantages" we've legalised we need to again change... We can't have Sydney too strong, just dangle the carrot but not so much so as to stand on the "big boys" toes.

not sure your point..

 

[GotTheGoodes]

not sure your point..

Yep, I agree (deleted).

 

[BarneyBent]

He should nominate the Swans and be done with it.... it would also assist in keeping my blood pressure down.

I just couldn't imagine a Dunkley playing anywhere other than the Swans. His old man was one of my favourite Swans players of all time

Two things: one, he'd know as well as any other that he's behind Callum Mills. With the bidding process so up in the air right now, he doesn't know for sure he'll end up at the Swans. It would therefore be silly for him to declare for the Swans. Hell, the Swans have probably told him "we'd love to have you, we're doing everything we can to get you, but we don't know how the system is going to look by draft time, and of it comes down to you or Mills, we're probably taking Mills". You can't expect him to say anything more than "Swans are great, let's see what happens" under those circumstances.

Secondly, he might not actually want to go to the Swans. He knows we've got a lot of young, promising midfielders who will be direct competitors for a spot. He may fancy himself a better chance at a club with less competition. Or at least be open to the idea. And if that's the case, power to him.

 

[nottenthagain]

Two things: one, he'd know as well as any other that he's behind Callum Mills. With the bidding process so up in the air right now, he doesn't know for sure he'll end up at the Swans. It would therefore be silly for him to declare for the Swans. Hell, the Swans have probably told him "we'd love to have you, we're doing everything we can to get you, but we don't know how the system is going to look by draft time, and of it comes down to you or Mills, we're probably taking Mills". You can't expect him to say anything more than "Swans are great, let's see what happens" under those circumstances.

Secondly, he might not actually want to go to the Swans. He knows we've got a lot of young, promising midfielders who will be direct competitors for a spot. He may fancy himself a better chance at a club with less competition. Or at least be open to the idea. And if that's the case, power to him.

I hear what you're saying but surely two years of development at the Swans is about the best development you could get as a new player to the AFL. Potentially getting thrashed senseless each week with another club might not actually be an advantage to your career.

Your first point is hypothetical and I'd be almost certain that the Swans would be playing their cards closer to their chest... exactly as Dunkley is doing.

p.s I'm not entirely sure Dunkley will end up as a midfielder, if he grows a bit more he could literally play anywhere on the park except ruck.

 

[BarneyBent]

I hear what you're saying but surely two years of development at the Swans is about the best development you could get as a new player to the AFL. Potentially getting thrashed senseless each week with another club might not actually be an advantage to your career.

Not sure your point here. Get thrashed at the Swans, versus getting thrashed at another club? What's the difference?

Your first point is hypothetical and I'd be almost certain that the Swans would be playing their cards closer to their chest... exactly as Dunkley is doing.

Well, yes. Anything the swans know Bout how the draft will happen next year, they probably aren't meant to make public they know. All they can say is that they like Dunkley and hope they get him. That sounds like keeping your cards pretty close to your chest to me.

p.s I'm not entirely sure Dunkley will end up as a midfielder, if he grows a bit more he could literally play anywhere on the park except ruck.

I feel like that's wishful thinking based on Andrew's size. He is not his father's son, for better AND worse. He might make it to 190 cm, maybe even 191-2, but even if he does, he'll be in the Pendles mould, not the slightly-undersized-key-defender mould.

 

[Punts]

Pretty much everyone I spoke to wanted to know what my plans were with the Swans and the father-son situation, and my answer was always the same.
I've still got to play good footy this year for them to consider me, and I'll continue to work on my weaknesses and strengths. I think I'll make my decision when the time comes.
J Dunkley AFL.com

 

[RUNVS]

Pretty much everyone I spoke to wanted to know what my plans were with the Swans and the father-son situation, and my answer was always the same.
I've still got to play good footy this year for them to consider me, and I'll continue to work on my weaknesses and strengths. I think I'll make my decision when the time comes.
J Dunkley AFL.com

Sounds odd. The first half sounds really promising but the last sentence is less so.

 

[RUNVS]

This is from August last year. Not sure if it was posted then

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Sounds odd. The first half sounds really promising but the last sentence is less so.

Shrugs it's his call if he doesn't wanna be here we will just use the pick on someone who does.

 

[RUNVS]

Shrugs it's his call if he doesn't wanna be here we will just use the pick on someone who does.

I hope he does want to be here. Hopefully he and Mills strike up a lifelong friendship or something on the AIS Academy trip in the USA.

 

[S120]

As I believe BarneyBent said a few days ago, there's no incentive for Dunkley to commit to publicly stating his desire to play in Sydney (we don't even know if he actually has that desire btw). If he doesn't end up at the Swans, having audio out there that he had his heart set on being a Sydney player could effect how other teams perceive his willingness to move to their club. He would certainly know that Mills is firming as a very high draft pick (in a pure draft) and that the Swans would want him badly, likely at Dunkley's expense.

 

[SASwan]

This formula would essentially not allow a club a right of reply. If it did it would unfair hamstring the club with access to the talent. Easer system: open up academies to all club in NSW and Qld instead of tinkering with draft. Win for everyone

Of course all those Vic clubs need to remember that what goes around comes around so if they want to screw us over on Mills and Dunkley there may come a day when they have two highly rated father-son selections in the same year e.g. Bulldogs with Libratore and Wallis. The new rules apply to all.

Think about that Eddie before you shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[Punts]

Who are some father-son and academy players who could be off-limits?Mills was a standout on tour, and would be the favourite for No.1 right now if not for already tied to the Sydney Swans as an academy prospect. The prolific midfielder is tough, hard, and willing to crash his way into a pack to find the ball.

He'll be a great addition to the Swans even if the academy bidding system changes and costs them more than just their first pick.
As for the father-sons, the most interest will be in Josh Dunkley, who is eligible to join the Swans, where his dad Andrew played. Dunkley is going to wait until later in the year to make a decision on if he wants to nominate for the Swans or enter in the open draft.
From Cal Twomey afl