Pokies money for AFL clubs

[scooby1279]

Who cares. We have made the correct moral move (regardless of how we got there), and the club is to be applauded and supported in my book.

We don't need to try and gain overt leverage out of their position, just sit back and enjoy the unique position we are in as a Victorian club.

true but unfortunately the moral high ground doesn't make you money and if the club is making up the difference somewhere else then all the better buy i don't think they are.

 

[Augustine]

As others have pointed out don't take those sensationalist Herald Sun figures on face value. For example a min 42.5% of those numbers above is immediately surrendered to the state in taxes.

Then they have venue costs, licence costs, labour costs etc. From memory Carlton pulled in around $19.5 mill in revenues from their 290 machines in 2013 but had circa $17 mill in costs.

So essentially they're not even worth it? Even from an economic rationalist point of view?

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

It's a really tricky area, not as simple as you make out. I don't want nanny state controlling what people eat, drink, how they spend their money etc, I don't think anyone does. I know that the only thing I'm hopelessly addicted to is North Melbourne. But when you see people so obese they can't walk anymore, so alcoholic that they lose their jobs and end up on the street, so addicted to gambling that they become abusive to their families, and they go into a cycle of depression and suicide, then you start realising they're past being able to take responsibility for their own actions. They actually need outside help. Whether that comes from government intervention or whatever is another question.

I reckon pokies, even though I occasionally use (and enjoy) the things, are pretty sickening. Imagine explaining the concept to an alien race. "People voluntarily go up to these flashing machines and insert all the tokens that are needed to get food and shelter and other things people might want. Then they go home." Its a bit f****d up. Got a couples of mates who are boarder-line addicted.

IMO people are far too quick to blame 'addiction' for their problems.

 

[TommyVercetti]

IMO its good the club has taken this stand point. If it means that we can get sponsors like World Vision then that is just PR gold.

 

[Augustine]

IMO people are far too quick to blame 'addiction' for their problems.

I think that's an ignorant view. Maybe in a very few cases people use addiction as a cop out. But if you claim that most addictions are made up or excuses then I don't know what to say to you.

 

[TommyVercetti]

IMO people are far too quick to blame 'addiction' for their problems.

I agree with this sentiment the majority of people in this country are always looking for someone to blame.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I think that's an ignorant view. Maybe in a very few cases people use addiction as a cop out. But if you claim that most addictions are made up or excuses then I don't know what to say to you.

That's not what I said. Addictions are real, I just think that people should be held responsible for their own actions.

 

[gokangas]

I still think that our high moral ground has more to do with past failures in terms of gaming rather than a holier than thou attitude. But given that is where we are at we should milk it for all its worth.

 

[Augustine]

That's not what I said. Addictions are real, I just think that people should be held responsible for their own actions.

Ok phew, I was hoping I misinterpreted you.

 

[NO_CSG]

So essentially they're not even worth it? Even from an economic rationalist point of view?

If they are gifted then yeah I imagine it's easy to make a buck.

Going out and buying a venue with a license is a recipe for disaster IMO. Might as well just go and buy a McDonalds franchise.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

If they are gifted then yeah I imagine it's easy to make a buck.

Going out and buying a venue with a license is a recipe for disaster IMO. Might as well just go and buy a McDonalds franchise.

If the club bought a Schnitz franchise, I'd be all over that.

 

[Orange Peanut]

I think we know a lot more about pokies now and their true impact than we did back then.
I'm not upset that we are taking this stance.
But if the Broady Town Hall had worked, I don't believe we'd have handed them back for any altruistic reason.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

We don't need the pokies, Zondor's fetish brothels are doing wonders for reducing our debt. :stern look.

 

[B4Bear]

true but unfortunately the moral high ground doesn't make you money and if the club is making up the difference somewhere else then all the better buy i don't think they are.

But do we need that extra money?

The debt is nearly gone. FD spending has increased. We are paying close to 100% of the salary cap.

Membership is 40k+ and likely to increase.

Tassie games are making us 600k? clear per game.

With the AFL capping the amount of money a club can spend in its FD, the need for the extra revenue is not there imho.

We have NEVER been so well off financially, and it will get better in the short to medium term, and it is done without pokies.

 

[kangaspurs]

That's not what I said. Addictions are real, I just think that people should be held responsible for their own actions.

The very nature of addiction is that one is unable to control their actions in the face of whatever vice they are addicted to. There has been numerous studies on addiction that recognize it is a serious disease and one that can be very difficult to overcome. To dismiss addiction and claim that it's a simple matter of taking responsibility for your actions is incredibly naive.

As for the pokies in general, they are horrible pernicious machines that have ruined peoples lives as they are so easily accessible and so simply operated. At times it is crucial to act in the morally righteous way, even at the expense of making easy money.

 

[Massive Unit]

I agree with this sentiment the majority of people in this country are always looking for someone to blame.

Tell that to my younger brother who died of a heroin overdose. He blamed no-one but himself, but it still didn't help him.

 

[Massive Unit]

I agree with a number of posters who support the clubs stance on poker machines (regardless of their reasoning).

Sure, it would bring in additional revenue, but as B4Bear has succinctly put, do we actually need that revenue?

I also agree however that the club should be doing a lot more to publicise and promote our stance on this issue.

 

[King Corey]

Tell that to my younger brother who died of a heroin overdose. He blamed no-one but himself, but it still didn't help him.

Very sorry to hear that mate but I don't see how TommyVercetti's comments would demean or contradict that type of tragedy?

 

[TommyVercetti]

Tell that to my younger brother who died of a heroin overdose. He blamed no-one but himself, but it still didn't help him.

Damn man that sucks, heroin and drugs in general are a terrible thing.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Tell that to my younger brother who died of a heroin overdose. He blamed no-one but himself, but it still didn't help him.

My condolences.

 

[Archer_11]

I think we play the long game with the pokies strategy. Ethics in business is becoming incredibly important and I think it counts a lot that we can say we're the only club without the cursed blighters. How it will pay off in a measurable way I'm not sure but I reckon you'd be crazy to suggest there will be no benefits over time.

I've got one example, my mates younger brother recently changed from Pies to North. He's an inner suburban arty type, citing the huddle and the pokies stance as the reason for change. Ok it's just one person but it's an example.

The challenge is how do we leverage this stance and turn it in to something bigger. We've got the base, now we could go for a killer blow. Something like a World Vision subscription for every membership, or for every 1,000 people through the gate or something. You know, think big and get a charity logo under our club name. I know dollars are key and it would be hard but with the right type of alignment it would be a powerful thing. North forging the way once again.

 

[Orange Peanut]

Whatever happened to our World Vision alliance?

 

[scooby1279]

But do we need that extra money?

The debt is nearly gone. FD spending has increased. We are paying close to 100% of the salary cap.

Membership is 40k+ and likely to increase.

Tassie games are making us 600k? clear per game.

With the AFL capping the amount of money a club can spend in its FD, the need for the extra revenue is not there imho.

We have NEVER been so well off financially, and it will get better in the short to medium term, and it is done without pokies.

Do we need the extra money? I wouldn't call it extra when the club ask for yearly donations to pay our debt off so clearly we don't have the 'extra' money.

 

[SMaturin]

I've got a mate who's bought a membership based purely on the club's stance on pokies (demons fan).

Would be madness to backflip now (not that it's on the cards anyway).

Long term is a smart move.

 

[ManOfClay]

I always found it so cool how North never got involved with these cancerous, life-ruining boxes.

Guess it's cool to ignore the facts as well?