Port Adelaide and the Prison Bars

[PieNSauce]

We've won the most Premierships of any AFL side in this Jumper mate.
Pretty significant.

That is irrelevant to the discussion because the basis of your entry into the AFL was that the black and white belongs to Collingwood. Whether you care or not, to allow another club to use it would devalue the Collingwood brand and that is the whole reason why it was a condition of your club's entry. The discussion is done and dusted because I think hell will freeze over before you would be allowed to use it on a regular basis.

 

[Mangus Onfries]

Interesting split of opinion here. For what it's worth I reckon we should only wear it for special occasions. Interesting to see some here just repeat what Eddie has said. Just wondering how exactly it might "devalue your brand"?

 

[Giant Sphinx]

Port should not want to wear it either. If they want to grow as a club and attract more fans from other SANFL sides don't show them they are linked to the Port Adelaide Magpies.

 

[loki04]

We've won the most Premierships of any AFL side in this Jumper mate.
Pretty significant.

Not in this comp you haven't.

 

[BlackWhiteBlood]

No other clubs share colours. Geelong, North and Carlton all use different shades of blue and vastly different jumper deigns.
The sole use of B&W is ours, but don't mind the prison bars being used occasionally.

BTW your current jumper is a ripper, probably the third best going around behind ours then your prison bar one. If I was un-biased would put the prison bars as number 1.

 

[scruffydog]

I have a lot of respect for Port. Probably my second favourite team and for good reason. Our clubs share a lot of similarities. However, our jumpers shouldn't be one of them.

You should wear it in the heritage round and that's it. Having two teams with such similar jumpers in a competition with 18 teams is ridiculous. I supported the decision vs the Tigers but that's as far as it goes.

Besides, as others have said, your current jumper is already one of the best anyway.

 

[PieNSauce]

Interesting split of opinion here. For what it's worth I reckon we should only wear it for special occasions. Interesting to see some here just repeat what Eddie has said. Just wondering how exactly it might "devalue your brand"?

Pretty simple really. Ever wondered why McDonalds protect the golden arches? Exactly the same concept! Hard to believe anybody couldn't see that.

 

[AdsGoNads]

Not in this comp you haven't.

Are you referring to the comp that started in 1987?

 

[Yezeha]

I wouldn't mind if you wore the prison bars but there needs to be another colour to go with the black and white. Perhaps Black and Teal?

 

[PieNSauce]

Are you referring to the comp that started in 1987?

This is just a bullshit argument. I'm not saying anything about Port Adelaide's history but the fact is that the VFL and the AFL are one and the same thing. The competition was renamed in 1990 to make it palatable to interstate supporters and to reflect a national brand. Why is it that some people keep trotting out the same old crap over and over again as some kind of self justification?

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Interesting split of opinion here. For what it's worth I reckon we should only wear it for special occasions.

I agree with this. Happy for you guys to have it as your 3rd ("clash") jumper, or used for heritage rounds etc. But not as a regular jumper that is worn 11+ times a year.

Interesting to see some here just repeat what Eddie has said. Just wondering how exactly it might "devalue your brand"?

Because sporting clubs are brands - and visual appearance is a very big part of that. Having two clubs with the same jersey, in a competition of only 18 clubs - is a pretty big issue.
---

As for Port fans coming on here arguing that the SANFL flags you won somehow mean you have more right to wear it in the AFL - that is ridiculous.

Im a West Aussie. I very much get the side of the argument that the pre-AFL VFL was similar to the other 2 major state comps. BUT - the fact is, other states joined the VFL, not the other way round... at that moment they accepted VFL history, and forfeit any right to consider premierships in their states comps to be part of AFL/VFL history.
Also - you did not join the AFL as the Port Adelaide Magpies... you joined as Port Power. Happy for you to hold onto the history that the Magpies have for you guys... but it is not directly relevant for the AFL-version of your club.

 

[NotAMagpieBogan]

I don't mind you guys using it as part of heritage, so maybe a couple of times a year. But definitely not all year round.

I liked it when you wore against Richmond. Gave me a magpies team to go for.

 

[AdsGoNads]

This is just a bullshit argument. I'm not saying anything about Port Adelaide's history but the fact is that the VFL and the AFL are one and the same thing. The competition was renamed in 1990 to make it palatable to interstate supporters and to reflect a national brand. Why is it that some people keep trotting out the same old crap over and over again as some kind of self justification?

Ahhh, now therein lies the issue.

The facts are clear though - The VFL & SANFL = State Based Competition

Now some would debate that the VFL was a stronger State based competition, but the reality is Premiers from SANFL, VFL and later a WA team played off in the Champions of Australia between 1888 - 1976 (of which PAFC won the most of any club). There was no clear distinction in performance between states.

Yes, of coarse the AFL was formed around the VFL when they decided to elevate all VFL clubs to a National brand introducing teams from other states.
The national brand was held back by our state unfortunately, who wouldn't allow clubs such as Noorwood, Port Adelaide & West Adelaide to merge with the VFL clubs to form the AFL. Giving us the pathetic McDonalds franchise in the Crows.

However, VFL, SANFL, WAFL premierships and history are only between state based sides, therefore can't be counted for the history of each respective club in the national competition which roughly started in 1987.. lets be honest its a mess.

Despite all of this, our two great clubs have dominated SANFL & VFL using the same brand and colours, it was always going to become an issue when they both merged into the same competition. I'm not asking for Collingwood to abandon their history and branding, but would ask for the equal and same respect for our history. There needs to be a fair compromise.

Maybe the fair solution would have been for Collingwood to adopt a 3rd colour just as Port had to.

 

[PieNSauce]

Ahhh, now therein lies the issue.

The facts are clear though - The VFL & SANFL = State Based Competition

Now some would debate that the VFL was a stronger State based competition, but the reality is Premiers from SANFL, VFL and later a WA team played off in the Champions of Australia between 1888 - 1976 (of which PAFC won the most of any club). There was no clear distinction in performance between states.

Yes, of coarse the AFL was formed around the VFL when they decided to elevate all VFL clubs to a National brand introducing teams from other states.
The national brand was held back by our state unfortunately, who wouldn't allow clubs such as Noorwood, Port Adelaide & West Adelaide to merge with the VFL clubs to form the AFL. Giving us the pathetic McDonalds franchise in the Crows.

However, VFL, SANFL, WAFL premierships and history are only between state based sides, therefore can't be counted for the history of each respective club in the national competition which roughly started in 1987.. lets be honest its a mess.

Despite all of this, our two great clubs have dominated SANFL & VFL using the same brand and colours, it was always going to become an issue when they both merged into the same competition. I'm not asking for Collingwood to abandon their history and branding, but would ask for the equal and same respect for our history. There needs to be a fair compromise.

Maybe the fair solution would have been for Collingwood to adopt a 3rd colour just as Port had to.

Totally irrelevant. As I said, we all recognise how important your history is to you and we respect that but it makes no difference to the fact that your club, in order to join the AFL agreed that the black and white was a brand owned by Collingwood. I couldn't give a fat rats clacker if your club won 5000 premierships in the SANFL or which competition was stronger. It's relevant to you and your club, nobody else!

 

[Markfs]

I dont have a problem with it at all..... except for one thing. I think they should be required to call themselves the Collingwood Magpies when they use those jumpers. I think it would be a great compromise and I'm sure the Port fans would love to be called the Pies for a day.

 

[Markfs]

Ahhh, now therein lies the issue.

The facts are clear though - The VFL & SANFL = State Based Competition

Now some would debate that the VFL was a stronger State based competition, but the reality is Premiers from SANFL, VFL and later a WA team played off in the Champions of Australia between 1888 - 1976 (of which PAFC won the most of any club). There was no clear distinction in performance between states.

Yes, of coarse the AFL was formed around the VFL when they decided to elevate all VFL clubs to a National brand introducing teams from other states.
The national brand was held back by our state unfortunately, who wouldn't allow clubs such as Noorwood, Port Adelaide & West Adelaide to merge with the VFL clubs to form the AFL. Giving us the pathetic McDonalds franchise in the Crows.

However, VFL, SANFL, WAFL premierships and history are only between state based sides, therefore can't be counted for the history of each respective club in the national competition which roughly started in 1987.. lets be honest its a mess.

Despite all of this, our two great clubs have dominated SANFL & VFL using the same brand and colours, it was always going to become an issue when they both merged into the same competition. I'm not asking for Collingwood to abandon their history and branding, but would ask for the equal and same respect for our history. There needs to be a fair compromise.

Maybe the fair solution would have been for Collingwood to adopt a 3rd colour just as Port had to.

It's good to finally get the facts on the table. I agree with the history that you outlined. I remember all the great players wanted to go to South Australia to play their football. Jezza, who actually came from the ACT, said that he always wanted to play in South Australia. Mark Williams, who captained our club, couldnt wait to get back to the SANFL. Of course, you will point to the great Haydyn Bunton snr who won Brownlows and then said that he wanted to improve his footy and went to Western Australia to win Sandover medals. There are hundreds of footballers who took similar paths. Just think of all those South Australian footballers who were brought to Carlton like Steve Kernahan and Craig Bradley. They couldn't wait to return to SA and demonstrate their prowess in the totally equivalent SANFL.

Of course there are endless examples how the VFL, the SANFL and the WAFL are totally equivalent in skills, strength, toughness and quality of play. Thank you for coming here and pointing it out to some of our younger Magpie supporters who didnt live through that era.

As for your point that the PA Power should be allowed to bypass their original commitment regarding their colours. I totally agree. In fact, I would put it to you that such an act would be totally in accordance with a team that identifies with prison bars.

 

[Markfs]

I just another thought and I think it's an opportunity to lead to a compromise.

People are focusing on the colours being the same. However, it's the prison bars that is the distinguishing feature of the PA jumper. The "Prison Bars" is the thing that gathers the Port Adelaide people around the club. It's a sign of solidarity for most of the members who have one or more family members in prison. Why can't this powerful image be taken Australian wide?

Why not promote PA as the club for drug attics ....murderers and burglars? There are thousands of these people Australian-wide and they dont really have a strong relationship with any club. Now they could have PA.

And rapists and child molesters. Other clubs might be revolted by welcoming these types. However, Port Adelaide could welcome them and make them feel at home. I'm already starting to think of membership packages.

It would be a wonderful association that would extend and embellish the Port Adelaide tradition..... and when they wore their prison bars, the rest of the competition would really know what that club stood for. I think it's a wonderful idea.

 

[dumesny1]

Maybe it should just come down to who had the black and white colours first. Port Adelaide supporters should do a history lesson first.

 

[AdsGoNads]

I just another thought and I think it's an opportunity to lead to a compromise.

People are focusing on the colours being the same. However, it's the prison bars that is the distinguishing feature of the PA jumper. The "Prison Bars" is the thing that gathers the Port Adelaide people around the club. It's a sign of solidarity for most of the members who have one or more family members in prison. Why can't this powerful image be taken Australian wide?

Why not promote PA as the club for drug attics ....murderers and burglars? There are thousands of these people Australian-wide and they dont really have a strong relationship with any club. Now they could have PA.

And rapists and child molesters. Other clubs might be revolted by welcoming these types. However, Port Adelaide could welcome them and make them feel at home. I'm already starting to think of membership packages.

It would be a wonderful association that would extend and embellish the Port Adelaide tradition..... and when they wore their prison bars, the rest of the competition would really know what that club stood for. I think it's a wonderful idea.

Ok, lets throw out a sensible suggestion now.

How about whoever finishes higher on the ladder gets to wear the black and white the following season.

 

[PieNSauce]

Ok, lets throw out a sensible suggestion now.

How about whoever finishes higher on the ladder gets to wear the black and white the following season.

How about you just understand that the condition of your club's entry into the compensation was that it had no rights to the black and white. End of story I reckon.

 

[Cory]

go and get stuffed, eddie will sort you out

 

[Wooljay]

Interesting split of opinion here. For what it's worth I reckon we should only wear it for special occasions. Interesting to see some here just repeat what Eddie has said. Just wondering how exactly it might "devalue your brand"?

Because for once Eddie is actually spot on. How do you guys not understand how it devalues the brand? It's so blindly simple, and as outlined by another poster above, there is a reason companies like McDonalds or Nike trademark the likenesses of their brands - because saturating the market would similar ones would absolutely devalue theirs

Simple.

Maybe the fair solution would have been for Collingwood to adopt a 3rd colour just as Port had to.

I actually tend to agree with this, I would love for the Pies to establish a clash strip and wear it for 3 games or so a season. That being said, I still think the prison bars should be for 'occasion' games, as opposed to being a staple.

 

[Scodog10]

Close this one down. There's enough volatility already on our board we don't need this one adding to it.

That's not to say that the sentiment isn't in the right place more that the current environment isn't condusive to rational discussion. Especially when we have nuffies telling us that the VFL became a new competition in 1987. It boggles the mind...

 

[hitthepost]

PB jumper has nothing to do with the Crows. Heritage occasions (such as 100 years since Champs of Australia vs Carlton).

 

[morgoth]

Had to please the fans!

In my opinion it's good, but not as GREAT as the Prison Bars.

No you signed a deal, its our brand, out colours, your prison bars were in the SANFL, you are not in the minor leagues anymore.

Happy for our club to sue the AFL and bankrupt you if you try it on.