Port and Hawthorn success comparison since 1997
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enjoy your afl handouts
- Nov 10, 2022
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Would Fitzroy have gone better than port? Hawks were technically broke in 97.
- Nov 10, 2022
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I’m guessing sarcasm? How the 01-04 team stayed under the salary cap when they poached players from Essendon because they were keeping to their salary cap is another strorystory
No
- Jun 28, 2013
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Just like the other Pies they tend to wobble in the big dance
- Jul 13, 2015
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1991 was the last time we played a GF at our actual home ground.
- Jun 28, 2013
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So which grannies did they lose to a team playing on their home ground?
Hawthorn won a number of grand finals they would have lost if it wasn't played on their home ground
- Jun 28, 2013
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You’re not very good at answering questions
18 times in the last 34 seasons (counted one extra for Super League) teams from outside of Sydney have won the grand final in the NRL and the majority of those instances have been against sides based in Sydney.
Yes league fields all have almost identical dimensions so that makes it a slightly different factor but there’s not much stock in trying to degrade a side’s win based on where their opposition hails from
Yes league fields all have almost identical dimensions so that makes it a slightly different factor but there’s not much stock in trying to degrade a side’s win based on where their opposition hails from
Doesn’t help when your coach for the last 10 years prepares the team for finals by saying things like this.
"But then also I think the nervousness, the anxiety part, starts to build pretty quick that you're coming into a big part of the season, but we look forward to that.
"I'm not frightened of it. I mean, it's a bit scary playing finals but you earnt the right and you have just got to embrace the opportunities."
Great way to motivate them Ken! Have them shaking in their boots from fear and inevitability come out struggling year after year once we hit September.
"But then also I think the nervousness, the anxiety part, starts to build pretty quick that you're coming into a big part of the season, but we look forward to that.
"I'm not frightened of it. I mean, it's a bit scary playing finals but you earnt the right and you have just got to embrace the opportunities."
Great way to motivate them Ken! Have them shaking in their boots from fear and inevitability come out struggling year after year once we hit September.
technically 'clean' of draft assistance
but full of start up concessions and benefited from players like Tredrea and Francou sitting out of the 1996 draft even though they were eligible to be picked up the following year
Also, every Hawthorn flag winning side has been stronger than every Port side since they came into the AFL, as proven by finals performances. 2004 Port might go close to 2008 Hawthorn.
You can make the top 4 without being an outstanding side. It's a finals based comp, that's the real test.
- Jun 17, 2019
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2014 and 2015 didn't have a single priority pick.
Or we could have stuffed up the picks, for example the one we received for Shaun Burgoyne which you guys gave.
To win one you need alot to go your way but to have 3 in a row, it was more than the prioty picks. Your recruitment and drafting were spot on for the type of game plan as well which was so successful.
Just in 2 minds when it comes to Port and the criticism on Ken, i do think we may need a change but o the flip side, I experienced the lows of the 2007-2012 period and it can be worse. If the team was rebuilt at a better time (no GWS/GC) or we had access to the priority pick system, Ken might be looked at in a different light.
Im sure we got various access to players when we came in to the AFL, so cant complain. Its the reason why our team was so good in that early 2000 period.
Thats what it takes to build a really good list, a leg up when it comes to building the list.
Cant agree more with this, to say Ken underachieved in his tenor, when we only won one flag with that team.
Our team/list today pales in comparison to the 2001-2004 team.
- Mar 2, 2015
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Also, I'm not really sure what purpose is served with the 1997-2023 comparison anyway. Some of the raw stats might look comparable, but the two clubs have often been at opposite ends of the rebuilding/contending cycle (with some minor overlap)
Port were admitted to the AFL in 1996/97 with a very strong list.. Not quite an SA state side, but the nucleus was there for a very competitive team from the get-go which built towards a premiership over the ensuing 5,6,7,8 years.
Some pretty handy names on their '97 list... G.Wanganeen, M.Primus, B.Lade, J.Francou, P.Burgoyne, M.Wilson, R.James, A.Kingsley, S.Dew, A.Heuskes, S.Paxman, D.Mead, S.Cummings, S.Bond, N.Eagleton, T.Harley, R.Biglands, S.Breuer, B.Lockwood, F.Francis
Their coach, John Cahill had a lot to work with. They almost made the top 8 in their very first season.
They were much better than Hawthorn. The Hawks were in complete disarray after staving off the AFL-orchestrated takeover attempt by the Melbourne football club in 1996. We had no cash, a multimillion dollar debt and hardly any good players. It was literally rock bottom for my footy club. We were just relieved to survive the AFL cull and try to rebuild from the near ruin.
We had Dunstall in his final season, literally on one leg after 2 ACL ruptures. Paul Salmon in the ruck, a promising young CHF named Nick Holland and our shining light, the effervescent Shane Crawford. We had a skinny 188cm half back flanker Mark Graham trying his best to play as key defender on Lockett, Carey, Loewe, Rocca, etc. That was it... The rest of them were a ragtag bunch of journeymen and rejects.
People need to remember the Hawks had been a perennial premiership contender from 1974-1978 and again from 1982-1993...
We had been Top 4 regulars for 17 of 20 years when the league head honchos turned the competition upside down with the biggest rule changes in history.
The AFL/VFL not only admitted new teams from Perth and Brisbane, but they also scrapped the Under 19's and development zones. They brought in a salary cap and the national draft. These had far reaching effects which clubs weren't fully equipped to deal with... List management (contracts, cap space, and recruiting via trades & draft) has become a science in the modern game. Back in it's infancy, most clubs didn't know what the hell they were doing.
These changes came at the worst time possible for Hawthorn. Let's face it: they were basically aimed at us. Without wanting to sound like a tinfoil-hat-wearing, Tiges fan, it was pretty obvious the VFL and most fans were sick of Hawthorn dominating every year, crowds were down, and so they brought in measures to artificially equalise the comp.
We had been sailing along under the old rules. The team which had made 7 consecutive Grand Finals through the 80's, won the flag again in 1991 and made finals in 1992,93,94 and '96 wasn't able to replenish its talent. Most of our Hall of famers got old and retired. As things started to fall apart, our All Australian midfielders Darren Jarman and Ben Allan (plus young CHF prospect, Matthew Robran) received big offers to go home. We were f**ked.
The Hawks sort of rebuilt from 1996 to 1999 under Ken Judge and they played finals in Peter Schwab's first 2 seasons as coach. But the reality was, the Hawks were a bit of a basket case through that era. Things only started to take shape when Clarkson arrived in 2004/05 and took charge of a list with young players: L.Hodge, S.Mitchell, J.Lewis, B.Sewell, C.Brown, L.Franklin, J.Roughead, M.Williams, T.Croad, C.Bateman, R.Ladson, R.Campbell, etc...
The Hawks enjoyed a glorious run under Clarko. However, similar to the mid 90's, our list got old; gun premiership players retired; and we didn't have the talent to replace them and stay up in contention... We bottomed out again.
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- May 23, 2016
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People forget Port have been a pretty successful club overall if you consider every metric except grand final appearances/premierships. Would be ahead of the Crows in most metrics too.
It bugs me we've only got 3 minor premierships and they've got 4 though.
It bugs me we've only got 3 minor premierships and they've got 4 though.
- Nov 10, 2022
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Only cos the rest of you voted to sell Waverley for steak knives
- Mar 2, 2015
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The records say that Roughead and Ellis were "priority picks", but it's falsely labelled by the AFL
The reality is they were our first picks (and the AFL assistance came immediately afterwards)
2004
1. Rich: Brett Deledio
2. Haw: Jarryd Roughead
3. W.B : Ryan Griffen
4. Rich: Richard Tambling <-- extra pick for being shite
5. Haw: Lance Franklin <------ extra pick for being shite
6. W.B : Tom Williams <------- extra pick for being shite
2005
1. Carl: Marc Murphy
2. Coll: Dale Thomas
3. Haw: Xavier Ellis
4. Carl: Josh Kennedy <------ extra pick for being shite
2. Coll: Scott Pendlebury <--- extra pick for being shite
3. Haw: Beau Dowler <-------- extra pick for being shite
The draft picks we used to select Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Birchall came from trading Trent Croad, Luke McPharlin, Nathan Thompson and Johnny Hay. Hawthorn's premiership teams had no other players who were selected in the top 10 of the Draft (apart from Shaun Burgoyne who was taken by Port Adelaide with pick 8)
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- Mar 2, 2015
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Port Adelaide was able to construct the nucleus of their premiership team thanks to the AFL's generous start-up rules.
Not that I'm whining about it... It wasn't as generous as West Coast's virtual state side in the early 90's, but it was still way more than Hawthorn ever got from a pair of priority picks.
The AFL gave Hawthorn a couple of freebie draft picks (used on Buddy Franklin and Beau Dowler) but this doesn't compare to Port poaching Wanganeen, Primus, Paxman, Cummings, Bond, Bond, Heaver and Breuer from other clubs as their uncontracted player signings and then locking away their young SANFL talent before anyone could draft them: Tredrea, Lade, Francou, Burgoyne, Wilson, James, Dew, Heuskes, Kingsley, Mead, Eagleton, Harley, Lockwood, Francis
Don't get me wrong. I liked Port's list build and development to the 2004 flag. I wish every expansion team had followed a similar path. The AFL and Port got it just right. Not too little... not too much... and competitive from day 1.
But it's worth noting that Port have never won a flag since (with a playing list assembled under the same rules as everyone else)
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Taper
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- Jun 9, 2023
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Port were tipped to go winless in 1997 and 1998 by Leigh Matthews.
John Cahill got the absolute best out of that side and Port made a mistake by moving him on at the end of 1998.
Port would have won another flag or two in the early 2000s with Cahill as coach.
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