The '' Back to Back '' Crows of 1997/98

[ok.crows]

Under the modern system they wouldn't have won the flag in 1998. They finished outside the top four that year, lost a finals game and still got a second bite at the cherry!

If the modern finals system had applied in 1998 the Crows wouldn't have had to play Melbourne at the MCG in round 1 of the finals.

Instead, if the modern finals system had applied in 1998, the Crows would have played Essendon at Footy Park in round 1. This would have been an entirely different game and, even though it would have been an elimination final, it is highly likely that the Crows would not have been eliminated.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

If the modern finals system had applied in 1998 the Crows wouldn't have had to play Melbourne at the MCG in round 1 of the finals.

Instead, if the modern finals system had applied in 1998, the Crows would have played Essendon at Footy Park in round 1. This would have been an entirely different game and, even though it would have been an elimination final, it is highly likely that the Crows would not have been eliminated.

Yeah but the Bombers were very strong back then as well, although in 1998 they were two years away from their peak as a team.

With them having to travel interstate in that scenario, then yes they possibly and probably would have lost.

 

[ok.crows]

Yeah but the Bombers were very strong back then as well, although in 1998 they were two years away from their peak as a team.

With them having to travel interstate in that scenario, then yes they possibly and probably would have lost.

So the "advantage" that the Crows allegedly had in 1998 of a non-elimination match would have been offset under the current system of having a home (elimination) match against a weaker side. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Had the current finals system applied in 1998 it is possible that the Crows would have won in round 1 and then played the same opponents in subsequent rounds of the 1998 finals series. If that had panned out the Crows would have won 8 out of 8 finals matches over the 1997-1998 back-to-back flags. As it was the Crows won 7 out of 8 finals matches, and had to play four away finals (and an away match in the last minor round game) in 1998.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

In my opinion there is very little that separates genius and madness. Always happy Blighty got his much-deserved Premiership wins as coach. Just wish they had've been with us!!!

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

So the "advantage" that the Crows allegedly had in 1998 of a non-elimination match would have been offset under the current system of having a home (elimination) match against a weaker side. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Had the current finals system applied in 1998 it is possible that the Crows would have won in round 1 and then played the same opponents in subsequent rounds of the 1998 finals series. If that had panned out the Crows would have won 8 out of 8 finals matches over the 1997-1998 back-to-back flags. As it was the Crows won 7 out of 8 finals matches, and had to play four away finals (and an away match in the last minor round game) in 1998.

This is all just mere speculation and conjecture at the end of the day. I think the Roos and the Eagles were more consistent teams in the 90's than that 1997/1998 Crows team.

 

[glengowan]

There were some all-time great players (and coach) in those sides.

Blight as coach. That Shane Ellen move.

Jarman at his best was as good as it got. With Modra injured, Jarman would start on ball and drift forward.

McLeod at his best on the ball. Because of his knees - we didn't see him enough on ball, but the impact he had in those games.

Rehn the best ruckman of his era.

Ricciuto, probably the greatest Crow, missed 1997 because of injury.

Hart and Smart - all time greats.

I remember at the time thinking we would go on forever. Goodwin, Johnson and Edwards were young guns. Plenty of time left for most of the good players in the squad. 1997 should've been a rebuilding year after the cleanout of 1996. Instead of the start, it was a full stop to an era in football where we were able to recruit the best South Australians playing for our home teams and build a team around them.

I reckon we were underdogs in both grand finals. Not dominant for as long like Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond or Brisbane. Always exciting to watch and never out of the game.

 

[Randall Stevens]

I reckon we were underdogs in both grand finals. Not dominant for as long like Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond or Brisbane. Always exciting to watch and never out of the game.

Crows were huge underdogs both years by my memory.

Both years they were 13-9 in home and away (albeit with the best % both years).
I believe they are the only club to go 13-9 in a home & away season off 22 games to win the premiership, and they did it two years in a row! They played the minor premiers in the GF both years, with St Kilda and North coming off nine and eleven game winning streaks respectively.

I honestly don't think that other than maybe Crows supporters they would have been looked back upon as under achievers if they hadn't made either GF, let alone won them. Even Bight agreed on 'Open Mike' that they were lucky to be in the Grand Finals ("we were lucky to be anywhere" he said).

But, the fact is that they peaked at exactly the right time two years running and have two flags to show for it as reward.

 

[Mat Mann]

1997 - very lucky in the prelim and the Saints were the best team that year, it was the Spider Everitt injury that cost the Saints the flag.

not just Spida, Winmars father passed the night before as well as Lowe's family tragedy in the lead up, Heatley battling an ankle injury, which reduced our dominant forward line quite a lot, Jarman was sensational, and the difference but another of the bloody Stkilda's what-ifs

 

[Mofra]

not just Spida, Winmars father passed the night before as well as Lowe's family tragedy in the lead up, Heatley battling an ankle injury, which reduced our dominant forward line quite a lot, Jarman was sensational, and the difference but another of the bloody Stkilda's what-ifs

Cheers, I wasn't aware. It really was just rotten luck that cost the Saints the flag in 97.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

not just Spida, Winmars father passed the night before as well as Lowe's family tragedy in the lead up, Heatley battling an ankle injury, which reduced our dominant forward line quite a lot, Jarman was sensational, and the difference but another of the bloody Stkilda's what-ifs

Crows had no Modra or Ricciuto either, so it's not like we were at full strength.

 

[crows dude]

18.45 Blight on Pitmann

 

[crows dude]

Cheers, I wasn't aware. It really was just rotten luck that cost the Saints the flag in 97.

HAHAHA

No Modra
No Riccuito
No Vardy
Jameson Hammy Injured in first qtr losing our full back for Heatley forcing Hart to play on Heatley.
Yet it was St Kildas bad luck

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Cheers, I wasn't aware. It really was just rotten luck that cost the Saints the flag in 97.

And Milney getting that 'bad bounce' in 2010. 2009, well...

 

[The King!]

Criminally underrated side. Yes had some role players but had quite a few superstars of the game . Outstanding coach too.

Don't forget Modra missed both

 

[SBYM]

Jamie Shanahan dislikes this thread.

 

[crows dude]

Jamie Shanahan dislikes this thread.

Cant blame him.

Alves stuffed up. He had Thompson tagging Jarman who was doing a good job. Yet when Blight made the trick off starting Jarman at the centre bounce only to dissapear to full forward Alves had Shanahan take Jarman on the way through. He should have just let Thompson stay on Jarman wherever he went. Shanahan was a goo full back on big gorillas. He never stood a chance alongside Jarman.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

That 4th quarter remains the best I've seen any side play in a Grand Final.

The game was on the line. It was close at three quarter time. Up for grabs. D-J went berserk and it was Game Over.

 

[davos44]

The finals system was poor. They finished 5th one year and got hammered by 10 goals in the first final and didn’t get eliminated.

Good team, not great.

Malcolm blight denies it but winning the first final in Melbourne put Adelaide on the North Melbourne (easily the best side in 98) prelim track.

Losing to Melbourne had Adelaide on possibly scarred, perhaps stage frightened Western Bulldogs track (assuming they beat West Coast at the MCG)

North beat Essendon on the Friday night so Adelaide couldn't be knocked out and North were guaranteed a prelim finishing first and winning their QF.

 

[Cursed Cat]

The '98 half time score would have been even uglier for the Crows if not for Ben Hart.

Don't forget though that by full time both teams had the same number of scoring shots - 15.15 to 8.22

Clicked on this thread to see if anyone had acknowledged this - Hart’s ability to absorb pressure and either nullify a North F50 entry and even win the ball back stymied the Kangaroos early ascendancy - amazing composure under extreme pressure.

 

[Apsaalooke]

The finals system was poor. They finished 5th one year and got hammered by 10 goals in the first final and didn’t get eliminated.

Good team, not great.

Poor system yes, but the Crows lost what was for them a dead rubber, so there wasn't much incentive in it for them.

 

[Randall Stevens]

Poor system yes, but the Crows lost what was for them a dead rubber, so there wasn't much incentive in it for them.

The Crows didn’t know it was a dead rubber at the time though did they? The Melb v Adel game was the second final played. If I remember the system correctly, had both Sydney and the Bulldogs lost later games the Crows would have been eliminated.
Obviously didnt’t happen and would be unlucky if it did, but enough of a possibility not to treat the game as a dead rubber,

 

[Macca180]

Jarman's last quarter in 97.

Insane.

 

[Back One Out]

... their back to back seasons get discounted. They weren't dominant in either season...

I agreed with everything else you wrote. It was a good post. I just don't like the sentiment you've expressed in the line I've quoted.

It's true, the Crows surprised many people by snaffling back-to-back flags from 4th and 5th positions on the ladder. Maybe they weren't a dominant team across those seasons. They also came from nowhere (11th, 11th, 12th from 1994-96) and they sank without a trace (13th in 1999, 11th in 2000)

But the whole purpose is to win the flag. We honour the team who hoists the premiership cup. Nobody cares about the who was supposedly the "best team" prior to Grand Final day. Nobody cares about stupid pissing contests on Big Footy where one-eyed nuffs argue endlessly about which team enjoyed the "greatest dynasty"... Nobody cares where they rate on Dan26's annual rankings of every premiership team. All that bullshit gives us something to argue about and pass the time.... But it's irrelevant.

The Crows 1997 and 1998 premierships aren't discounted. They are worth the same as every other premiership.
If anything, the premierships won by underrated, unfancied underdog teams are more celebrated.



Collingwood 1990.... "bunch of hacks... worst premiership team ever"... Pfft! tell that to the Magpie Army who invaded Hoddle Street and Victoria Park that night and celebrated their first flag in 32 years.

Essendon 1993... "Fluke!" Yeah, maybe it was a flukey flag, but what a glorious fluke it was. I reckon Bombers fans enjoyed that one more than 1985 or 2000 when they were an unstoppable juggernaut.



Adelaide 1997, 1998

Sydney 2005

Hawthorn 2008

Bulldogs 2017

West Coast 2018


None of these teams would make anyone's list of greatest premiership teams of all time. But I reckon they would all be ranked inside the top 10 for how much joy they brought to the winning clubs and how fondly they are remembered.

The footy world should join in and celebrate these teams instead of sneering how they weren't the best team and how they got lucky, etc, etc... It's kind of weird the way we disrespect these premiership teams who played "above themselves" and won against the odds.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Andrew Eccles

Andrew Eccles

Age

44

Ht

187cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.5

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.4

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

Now that's a blast from the past. Did he kick 5 on debut vs West Coast 1998? Or did he play before that game. BTW How ******* Good was Andrew McLeod

Andrew Mcleod

Age

47

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.8

5star

K

13.1

5star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.6

4star

?

B2B Norm Smith. Gun. What about those 7 goals in the 1998 Prelim? On another planet that fella.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

I agreed with everything else you wrote. It was a good post. I just don't like the sentiment you've expressed in the line I've quoted.

It's true, the Crows surprised many people by snaffling back-to-back flags from 4th and 5th positions on the ladder. Maybe they weren't a dominant team across those seasons. They also came from nowhere (11th, 11th, 12th from 1994-96) and they sank without a trace (13th in 1999, 11th in 2000)

But the whole purpose is to win the flag. We honour the team who hoists the premiership cup. Nobody cares about the who was supposedly the "best team" prior to Grand Final day. Nobody cares about stupid pissing contests on Big Footy where one-eyed nuffs argue endlessly about which team enjoyed the "greatest dynasty"... Nobody cares where they rate on Dan26's annual rankings of every premiership team. All that bullshit gives us something to argue about and pass the time.... But it's irrelevant.

The Crows 1997 and 1998 premierships aren't discounted. They are worth the same as every other premiership.
If anything, the premierships won by underrated, unfancied underdog teams are more celebrated.



Collingwood 1990.... "bunch of hacks... worst premiership team ever"... Pfft! tell that to the Magpie Army who invaded Hoddle Street and Victoria Park that night and celebrated their first flag in 32 years.

Essendon 1993... "Fluke!" Yeah, maybe it was a flukey flag, but what a glorious fluke it was. I reckon Bombers fans enjoyed that one more than 1985 or 2000 when they were an unstoppable juggernaut.



Adelaide 1997, 1998

Sydney 2005

Hawthorn 2008

Bulldogs 2017

West Coast 2018


None of these teams would make anyone's list of greatest premiership teams of all time. But I reckon they would all be ranked inside the top 10 for how much joy they brought to the winning clubs and how fondly they are remembered.

The footy world should join in and celebrate these teams instead of sneering how they weren't the best team and how they got lucky, etc, etc... It's kind of weird the way we disrespect these premiership teams who played "above themselves" and won against the odds.

Nail on the *en head