Quirks of the draw

[Scotland]

Have you seen Melbournes 2014 draw?

No. I am guessing you are hosting 11 teams better than you?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Not if you're Melbourne. We have played one home game against each of Essendon and Carlton in the last 5 years. We play an average of 4 home games against Vic clubs over the last few years.

So you play your other 7 home games against the eight interstate clubs?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

No. I am guessing you are hosting 11 teams better than you?

The only home game we play against a "big" drawing club is Collingwood. Maybe Geelong if you count them.

No home games against Carlton, Essendon, Richmond or Hawthorn and have only had 1 home game against each of Carlton or Essendon in the last 5 years. Also have a home game on Easter Sunday against the Suns (last year we played them on Mothers Day).

 

[Scotland]

There is no possible way fixtures can be fair

Agree 100% that 18 teams/22 games is the root of all the problems with the draw (and farcical) but "fair" is a point of view.

If the draw was done by chance then we (WC) might have 12 games in WA while Freo have 11. Is that fair? We might play Hawthorn, Fremantle, Sydney and Geelong twice. Is that fair?

The current fixture tries to satisfy more agendas than is achievable. I'd vote doing it by random chance every day of the week.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

So you play your other 7 home games against the eight interstate clubs?

We have home games this year against WCE, Gold Coast (Easter), Sydney, Port, Fremantle, Brisbane & GWS. So yes.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Also have a home game on Easter Sunday against the Suns (last year we played them on Mothers Day).

Cant complain about that. If youre going to play the Suns at home it may as well be on an unsuitable date. Better than playing somebody you want to see them play!

 

[Scotland]

We have home games this year against WCE, Gold Coast (Easter), Sydney, Port, Fremantle, Brisbane & GWS. So yes.

We have 10 home games against clubs from outside WA.

 

[WWSD]

The Hawks still haven't played Brisbane at the Gabba since Round 7 2008. Don't the AFL look at past games over the years and the venues in which they played in and take it into some consideration?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Cant complain about that. If youre going to play the Suns at home it may as well be on an unsuitable date. Better than playing somebody you want to see them play!

We regularly get dudded playing non-Vic clubs on Easter/Mothers Day etc and then get told it's our fault we don't make money. Yeah we've been s**t the last few years but this has been occurring for some time. Why do we always get drawn to play on those days against teams with no support?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

We have 10 home games against clubs from outside WA.

Apples and oranges. This isn't about you it's about comparing Melbourne's draw to that of the other Vic clubs. You get more home games against high drawing clubs than we do anyway.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We have home games this year against WCE, Gold Coast (Easter), Sydney, Port, Fremantle, Brisbane & GWS. So yes.

Fair enough. Astonishing!. Personally I believe we need a rolling draw to remove anomolies like this....the five teams you play twice this year will not be the same five teams as last year or indeed next year....alll balances out.

Upside of course is home ground advantage. Assume you travel 5 times...so hosting interstate teams seven times .....so theoretically that helps bump you up the ladder and get you a more preferential draw down the track. StKilda managed better scheduling when they were winning.

 

[ANGEL DARK]

Agree 100% that 18 teams/22 games is the root of all the problems with the draw (and farcical) but "fair" is a point of view.

If the draw was done by chance then we (WC) might have 12 games in WA while Freo have 11. Is that fair? We might play Hawthorn, Fremantle, Sydney and Geelong twice. Is that fair?

The current fixture tries to satisfy more agendas than is achievable. I'd vote doing it by random chance every day of the week.

And if you did the draw randomly do you honestly think we will still get a fair draw. There would still be teams that will get the rough end of the stick having to play top sides more than other teams and you will still get continous whinging and moaning about it. 18 into 22 doesnt go but at the end of the day the grand final is usually won by the best team because if your good enough to win enough games youll do well regardless of the draw

 

[Scotland]

And if you did the draw randomly do you honestly think we will still get a fair draw. There would still be teams that will get the rough end of the stick having to play top sides more than other teams and you will still get continous whinging and moaning about it. 18 into 22 doesnt go but at the end of the day the grand final is usually won by the best team because if your good enough to win enough games youll do well regardless of the draw

You missed the point.

It's not about one team's draw being easier or harder than another, it's about how that outcome arose. Deliberately fixturing the wooden spooner to play the top 4 twice would be unfair, but if it happened by chance then stiff s**t.

Even if you play teams twice 22 weeks is along time. We always seem to get Essendon in Melbourne early in the season when they are worldbeaters and in Perth later once they've imploded. It's not fair or unfair, it's just footy.

 

[ANGEL DARK]

You missed the point.

It's not about one team's draw being easier or harder than another, it's about how that outcome arose. Deliberately fixturing the wooden spooner to play the top 4 twice would be unfair, but if it happened by chance then stiff s**t.

Even if you play teams twice 22 weeks is along time. We always seem to get Essendon in Melbourne early in the season when they are worldbeaters and in Perth later once they've imploded. It's not fair or unfair, it's just footy.

Its exactly about a teams draw being harder than another. Have a look back at some posts on this thread with people whinging about why we play so an so twice and they like. So what if you play Essendon early in Melbourne and they are worldbeaters. If your good enough youll beat them end of story. The point i am making is that you cant please everyone when your constructing a fixture with 18 teams and 22 rounds and it doesnt matter whether you do the draw randomly or to satisfy other agendas so why whinge about. It is what it is so clubs and supporters alike need to just get over it

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We have 10 home games against clubs from outside WA.

Well of course you do. Derp. 16 of the 18 clubs are from outside WA. One of the remaining two clubs is your own team...you cant play yourself!

 

[Scotland]

Well of course you do. Derp. 16 of the 18 clubs are from outside WA. One of the remaining two clubs is your own team...you cant play yourself!

Yeah, I know. We also fly across the country for 10 of our away games. So we get dull opponents in dull timeslots at home then travel 10 times, yet we're supposed to feel sorry for Melbourne? Yeah, nah.

Melbourne play 7 out of 11 away games in Melbourne. It's not all bad news.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Its exactly about a teams draw being harder than another. Have a look back at some posts on this thread with people whinging about why we play so an so twice and they like. So what if you play Essendon early in Melbourne and they are worldbeaters. If your good enough youll beat them end of story. The point i am making is that you cant please everyone when your constructing a fixture with 18 teams and 22 rounds and it doesnt matter whether you do the draw randomly or to satisfy other agendas so why whinge about. It is what it is so clubs and supporters alike need to just get over it

The issue is it's manipulated. If there is a transparent way of drafting the fixture (say putting teams in groups based on last years ladder position - not like they have this year where they can still manipulate it but saying teams that finished 1, 4, 7, 10, 13 & 16 play twice for eample - or a rolling draw) then you can't really complain even though it may not strictly be "fair". Everyone is bound by the same rules so you cop it on the chin if you happen to get a worse draw either financially or competitively. But when the fixture is manipulated and you receive a poor financial draw year in, year out it is grossly unfair.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yeah, I know. We also fly across the country for 10 of our away games. So we get dull opponents in dull timeslots at home then travel 10 times, yet we're supposed to feel sorry for Melbourne? Yeah, nah.

Melbourne play 7 out of 11 away games in Melbourne. It's not all bad news.

Financially it is a death sentence. Again, you're comapring apples with oranges. Not everything relates to the West Coast Eagles. When you compare Melbourne, North or Footscray's fixtures with Essendon, Carlton or Richmond's we are significantly disadvantaged financially and it happens every single year.

 

[Scotland]

Financially it is a death sentence. Again, you're comapring apples with oranges. Not everything relates to the West Coast Eagles. When you compare Melbourne, North or Footscray's fixtures with Essendon, Carlton or Richmond's we are significantly disadvantaged financially and it happens every single year.

Why are we only allowed to compare some clubs? It's an 18 team competition.

 

[Riccardo11]

Not if you're Melbourne. We have played one home game against each of Essendon and Carlton in the last 5 years. We play an average of 4 home games against Vic clubs over the last few years.

It's a bit hard to argue you are hard done by when you get to host the guaranteed sell out Queens Birthday every year, regardless of form or position.

Certain other teams have invented and popularized blockbusters, only to see them taken off them for higher profile sides.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Why are we only allowed to compare some clubs? It's an 18 team competition.

Now you're either being purposefully obtuse or incredibly stupid. Different clubs have different circumstances. When comparing Melbourne's fixture to a club like Essendon for example when Essendon receive home games against Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond and one of Geelong or Hawthorn every single year and Melbourne have to host 7 of the 8 non-Vic clubs as well as the other smaller Vic clubs like North & Footscray of course we are being financially disadvantaged compared to a club like Essendon or Carlton.

I'm not saying Melbourne should get special consideration, I'm saying the draw should be fair and transparent. I don't understand why anyone would be opposed to that unless they benefit from having a lopsided fixture every single season.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It's a bit hard to argue you are hard done by when you get to host the guaranteed sell out Queens Birthday every year, regardless of form or position.

Certain other teams have invented and popularized blockbusters, only to see them taken off them for higher profile sides.

If it means having a fair draw I'd happily give that game up. When we get that game at the expense of hosting either Carlton or Essendon every single year it's not that much of an advantage overall.

 

[LeverPuller]

If it means having a fair draw I'd happily give that game up. When we get that game at the expense of hosting either Carlton or Essendon every single year it's not that much of an advantage overall.

I love when you argue my point for me.

QBD is irrelevant when last year we had to play at 1.10 on Easter Sunday, 4.40 on Mother's Day and have no home night games in Melbourne. It is in fact something of an equaliser in that circumstance.

 

[Scotland]

Now you're either being purposefully obtuse or incredibly stupid. Different clubs have different circumstances.

Yeah, I know...

Why is this passed off as an excuse for certain non-Victorian clubs to be treated as afterthoughts?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yeah, I know. We also fly across the country for 10 of our away games. So we get dull opponents in dull timeslots at home then travel 10 times, yet we're supposed to feel sorry for Melbourne? Yeah, nah.

Melbourne play 7 out of 11 away games in Melbourne. It's not all bad news.

The dull timeslots whinge is a furphy. There were two games last Easter Sunday....North v Collingwood at Etihad drew 41,000 in the twilight game....an alleged worse timeslot.
As is the travel issue. What the Eagles lose in travel they gain in home ground advantage. It nets to nil.

But who you play twice is important. Getting minimal drawcard opponents compared to other sides is a reasonable complaint. That said I agree its not all bad news, it gives them a net home ground advantage because they host more travelling opponents than they travel away to.