History Russian Revolution

[evo]

I find no political 'system' to be practical. It is impossible for any of them to ever be implemented in actuality. None of which will prevent people pretending that it is practical and possible.

very true

 

[Clay Davis]

His advisers where like the Memphis Mafia to Elvis "prescription drugs are OK E"! - they kept telling him that he had a God Given right to Govern that could not be restricted by commoners - and this was in the 20th Century for God's sake!

those with the most to lose are always the toadies.

 

[skilts]

very true

It seems we will never escape the influence of Aristotle's bullshit.

 

[Moo]

I can not recall who said this ...

Socialism is man exploiting man, captialism is the absolute reverese of this.

 

[djrossie16]

Fascinating subject.

Just recently saw a couple of Russian movies that renewed my interest in this period in History.

One called the Admiral about the rise and fall of Naval commander Aleksandr Vasiliyevich Kolchak and later the head of counter revolutionary or white forces.

Also a unique movie called Morphine about a doctor's descent into morphine addiction during this time.

 

[chargers 09]

Gough nbaman1
Here's a thread for some discussion!

 

[chargers 09]

I think it would have been interesting to see what would have happened to the country had Karensky not handed the Bolsheviks so much military power, country would have been better off with him rather than Lenin and Stalin after him.
Trotsky is a man whose influence is underrated in the revolution, he may have also been a option than Stalin.

 

[PP34]

Only briefly went over it at the end of last year so I'll be able to answer things better in a few months.

One thing is for certain though. Tsar Nicholas was a terrible leader. Was never ready for the job though and unlike other terrible leaders who had advisors to help them out, the Tsar was always right so anything he said was unlikely to be met with challenges by his "advisors".

He was thrown amongst the wolves though. Russia was like a ticking time bomb. It was only a matter of time before the people were enlightened as to the ways of Western societies.

 

[little graham]

If only the Rockefellers didn't want oil to not be controlled by socialist nations, otherwise it's price would been to low for a capitalist company to operate a profit and pay for all those bribes.Russia would be a very different place, so would be the world.

WW2 probably wouldn't of happened, a treaty would of been struck long before 1918 as well.Possibly ww1 may not of started and the Ukranians and Austrians would of worked a few things out.

Then there's the English who wanted to make dollahs, big Dollahs out of Persia, while denying as many in Europe as possible to the industrial steroid, Oil.

Lot of money in fiddling with Russia back then

 

[Pie eyed]

I find no political 'system' to be practical. It is impossible for any of them to ever be implemented in actuality. None of which will prevent people pretending that it is practical and possible.

You have not tried my political system yet.
It relies heavily on a relaxation based economy driven by inexpensive but abundant exotic foods and liqueurs, state supplied ales and nibbles at 3-5 every arvo and late night bingo.
This economy is funded by a heavy tax on weight loss programs and a heavy duty on all "reality television" programming on a stupidity based sliding scale, which would see "Customs" attract a 30% duty on all production costs as well as a mandatory 50% tax on sales and "Rat Bastards" an 80% production duty, 65% tax on income from sales and the standard flat rate weekly $100.000.00 Offensive American Drawl and Grammatical Perversion Tariff (OADGP) attracted by all US productions featuring inbred morons as their main "talent".

 

[skilts]

You have not tried my political system yet.
It relies heavily on a relaxation based economy driven by inexpensive but abundant exotic foods and liqueurs, state supplied ales and nibbles at 3-5 every arvo and late night bingo.
This economy is funded by a heavy tax on weight loss programs and a heavy duty on all "reality television" programming on a stupidity based sliding scale, which would see "Customs" attract a 30% duty on all production costs as well as a mandatory 50% tax on sales and "Rat Bastards" an 80% production duty, 65% tax on income from sales and the standard flat rate weekly $100.000.00 Offensive American Drawl and Grammatical Perversion Tariff (OADGP) attracted by all US productions featuring inbred morons as their main "talent".

Rarely have I guffawed so much (that's 'LOL' to the rest of you). You have a plan.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

No.

1/ It requires a totalitarian government to implement it
2/Its successful implementation relies on a highly efficient bureaucracy (a contradiction in terms)
3/ It requires humans to transcend their self-interested nature.

4/ Computers didn't exist which is in the long term going to revolutionize market efficiency. Especially if/ when we master quantum computing.

Karl Marx didn't believe Communism would be achievable without capitalism creating truly efficient markets, something it still can't do today.

 

[clogged]

Trotsky is a man whose influence is underrated in the revolution, he may have also been a option than Stalin.

I reckon Trotsky got lauded far too much because he was the loser and never had power. Every communist could claim they were followers of Trotsky so as to absolve themselves of Stalin's crimes. There was no guarantee that Trotsky would have been any less vicious had he won.

 

[Slax]

If only the Rockefellers didn't want oil to not be controlled by socialist nations, otherwise it's price would been to low for a capitalist company to operate a profit and pay for all those bribes.Russia would be a very different place, so would be the world.

WW2 probably wouldn't of happened, a treaty would of been struck long before 1918 as well.Possibly ww1 may not of started and the Ukranians and Austrians would of worked a few things out.

WWII was purely a continuation of WWI which ended purely because of a lack of resources and the fact neither side could survive another cold winter. WWI would still of happened, but how it finished may of been very different. The simmering tensions had been there for some time and were only waiting for the spark to ignite them, but a more effective truce may of been able to of been achieved.

The USA would definitely not of developed into the power it did post WWI. WWI would've ended with fewer casualties and less damage, making rebuilding much faster. Also the reparations to be paid by Germany wouldn't of happened, this would of meant the Nazi party would never of come to power.

Russia still needed change, how radical it would've been is what can be debated. They had a disorganised ruling class who were not trusted by the people.

 

[blackcat]

Hey everyone, though we could have an intelligent discussion on the Russian Revolution arguably one of the most impportant events of the 20th century.

- What are your thoughts on Lenin and his ideas?
- Was Tsar Nicholas a hopeless leader?
- Comments on Rasputin, the "mad monk"
- Comments on the civil war...

 

[medusala]

It brought to worldwide attention the worlds most outstanding hats.

Astrakhan fur FTW

 

[blackcat]

It brought to worldwide attention the worlds most outstanding hats.

Astrakhan fur FTW

we'''lll just call you Philip Treacy then. could use an extra "l" in your name, but you prolly went the Rugby then on to St Martins

 

[medusala]

I doubt Dr Zhivago wore one of his.

 

[Roylion]

Germany and Japan are covered in year 11, Russia and Australia (which is quite boring in comparison) are covered in year 12.

In Victoria, there are three histories a year 12 student can take. Revolutions (students study two of four available revolutions - Russian, French, American, Chinese), Australian History and Renaissance Italy.

 

[Power Raid]

Was the revolution worth it? I appreciate times were tough under the Tsar but the last 90 odd years has not been rosy either.

 

[Mofra]

Was the revolution worth it? I appreciate times were tough under the Tsar but the last 90 odd years has not been rosy either.

The Tsar's refusal to hand over significant legislative power to the Duma ("We will not follow the British!") meant that revolution was largely inevitable in some form or another - some argue that if Alexei was not a haemophiliac then Rasuptin would not have been given so much latitude and the spark of revolution during Nicholas II's reign may have not ignited but personally I think that would have been delay not avoidance.

Communism was a growing force in Europe pre- and during WW1 (noting the failed 1905 revolution sowed seeds in Russia earlier) and the Communist party only narrowly lost to the Facists in post-WW1 Germany.

 

[Power Raid]

The Tsar's refusal to hand over significant legislative power to the Duma ("We will not follow the British!") meant that revolution was largely inevitable in some form or another - some argue that if Alexei was not a haemophiliac then Rasuptin would not have been given so much latitude and the spark of revolution during Nicholas II's reign may have not ignited but personally I think that would have been delay not avoidance.

Communism was a growing force in Europe pre- and during WW1 (noting the failed 1905 revolution sowed seeds in Russia earlier) and the Communist party only narrowly lost to the Facists in post-WW1 Germany.

It was certainly very interesting times with the battle of ideologies, the thirst for colonial rule and expanding borders.

What makes me smile is the irony regarding the outcome. Russia supposedly won WW2, ending the 30 years of conflict and tension, whilst Japan and Germany supposedly lost.

 

[blackcat]

things fall apart, the centre cannot hold
mere anarchy is loosed upon the world

 

[blackcat]

3/ It requires humans to transcend their self-interested nature.

but what about those who have grown up in said system. Who sublimate statist and national tendencies as part of their identity. I would not be the same person if i grew up in hanoi.

It has already been implemented in the way Marx intended:

-1950s China - The 'great leap forward'. The result was the starvation of 20 million peasants through bureaucratic bungling. And the 'cultural revolution', whereby most intellectuals, religious leaders and sundry 'traitors' were tortured and killed.

see: Stalin and Ukraine famine. There was a protest at Fed Squard just after Christmas, apparently the Ukraines have finally got access to the records on this. Millions died in Ukraine famine too, because of the bungling in the dept of Agriculture.

- current day North Korea

Dennis Rodman takes exception to this post.

 

[blackcat]

think The Second Coming recent studied opinion put Yeats' genesis as 1917 not the original conjecture on it being the Great War.
placebo may have better info