History Russian Revolution

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chargers 09

chargers 09

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Hey everyone, though we could have an intelligent discussion on the Russian Revolution arguably one of the most impportant events of the 20th century.

- What are your thoughts on Lenin and his ideas?
- Was Tsar Nicholas a hopeless leader?
- Comments on Rasputin, the "mad monk"
- Comments on the civil war...
 
chargers 09 said:
Hey everyone, though we could have an intelligent discussion on the Russian Revolution arguably one of the most impportant events of the 20th century.

- What are your thoughts on Lenin and his ideas?
- Was Tsar Nicholas a hopeless leader?
- Comments on Rasputin, the "mad monk"
- Comments on the civil war...
Click to expand...

Got a paper to write by any chance?
 

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Lenin: A good organiser who managed to gain a following of other revolutionaries. In the pre war years he and the Bolsheviks engaged in terror and bank robberies so the Okhrana should of just executed them all when they had the chance IMO. Their undermining of the war effort also cost Russia dearly.

Tsar Nicholas II: I am not going to say he was hopeless but he wasn't the best leader they had. His decision to lead from the front during the war was the single biggest mistake that he could make. That meant he could be blamed for the setbacks and his German wife technically led the country which was not very popular.

Rasputin: Managed to get the royal families trust on a fluke and he milked the situation for all it was worth. He had enormous influence over the Tsarina and this made her even more unpopular and so it resulted in his eventual and legendary death. They should of removed him before they did however.

Civil War: The Bolsheviks were much more organised than the Whites were, who even fought eachother at times. The whites should of tried to gain the trust of the population who were not happy with the war communism economy they had to deal with.
 
Dagger5 said:
Lenin: A good organiser who managed to gain a following of other revolutionaries. In the pre war years he and the Bolsheviks engaged in terror and bank robberies so the Okhrana should of just executed them all when they had the chance IMO. Their undermining of the war effort also cost Russia dearly.

Tsar Nicholas II: I am not going to say he was hopeless but he wasn't the best leader they had. His decision to lead from the front during the war was the single biggest mistake that he could make. That meant he could be blamed for the setbacks and his German wife technically led the country which was not very popular.

Rasputin: Managed to get the royal families trust on a fluke and he milked the situation for all it was worth. He had enormous influence over the Tsarina and this made her even more unpopular and so it resulted in his eventual and legendary death. They should of removed him before they did however.

Civil War: The Bolsheviks were much more organised than the Whites were, who even fought eachother at times. The whites should of tried to gain the trust of the population who were not happy with the war communism economy they had to deal with.
Click to expand...

Wasn't Stalin the bank robber? Wasn't Lenin exiled for much of the time betwenn 1900 to the revolution?
 
chargers 09 said:
Wasn't Stalin the bank robber? Wasn't Lenin exiled for much of the time betwenn 1900 to the revolution?
Click to expand...
Yes but Lenin would of been involved in the planning no doubt. All of the larger denominations of Roubles had to be taken abroad anyway as they could not be cashed in Russia.
 
Dry Rot said:
Yes the questions in his OP give it away. Hope we can all do some really good creative writing of bullshit facts for his assignment.
Click to expand...

Nah I enjoy talking history.

Little known fact though is the effect that Yuri Onovich had on the pairing of Stalin and Lenin.

I get annoyed at all of the attention Rasputin gets.

Sure Rasputin was the lover of the Russian Queen and some may even say Russia's greatest love machine - though Yuri's 'War - Was Is It Good For?' speech still swung the crimson tide in the favour of Lenin.
 
Moo said:
So are you in year 11 or year 12?
Click to expand...
Germany and Japan are covered in year 11, Russia and Australia (which is quite boring in comparison) are covered in year 12.
 
It threatened privileged people throughout the world, and still does.

That world has never been the same since.

I find it unconscionable that they embraced one of the most boring writers in history (Marx) as their impetus. This has caused subsequent generations to endure the ill-thought mumblings of mindless followers of crass determinism.

That's hardly thinking at all.
 
One of the most interesting parts I always think, is that Lenin had been exiled from Russia to Switzerland. The only way back to Russia was via Germany - who were at war with Russia. But the germans put him on a train and sent him back to Russia in the hope he could stir things up a bit.

Of course, that was after the February 1917 revolts that caused Nicholas to abdicate. So Lenin was not present at the first part - getting rid of the Tsar. After that it just became a political struggle between the factions (of whom the Bolsheviks were just one group, albeit a very powerful one) - the Bolsheviks eventually seized power in November 1917 (illegally), which led to a civil war.

But everybody believes 'The Bolsheviks overthrew the Romanov Dynasty' - not true.

The history has been tainted by much Soviet propoganda - a re-enactment they made in the 1920's still gets shown today as 'actual footage'. All the push for violence came from the Bolsheviks - Lenin in particular. He was convinced the revolution had to be violent if it was to succeed.

On the actual day of the 'Storming of the Winter Palace' a grand total of 2 people were killed. The Bolshevik takeover was not recognised in the rest of the country - hence a degeneration into civil war.
 

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chargers 09 said:
Hey everyone, though we could have an intelligent discussion on the Russian Revolution arguably one of the most impportant events of the 20th century.

- What are your thoughts on Lenin and his ideas?
- Was Tsar Nicholas a hopeless leader?
- Comments on Rasputin, the "mad monk"
- Comments on the civil war...
Click to expand...

Go to your nearest Dymock's (or decently stocked bookstore), and look for "A People's Tragedy" by Orlando Figes. It'll answer all your questions and more.
 
Wallaby said:
But everybody believes 'The Bolsheviks overthrew the Romanov Dynasty' - not true.

The history has been tainted by much Soviet propoganda - a re-enactment they made in the 1920's still gets shown today as 'actual footage'. All the push for violence came from the Bolsheviks - Lenin in particular. He was convinced the revolution had to be violent if it was to succeed.

On the actual day of the 'Storming of the Winter Palace' a grand total of 2 people were killed. The Bolshevik takeover was not recognised in the rest of the country - hence a degeneration into civil war.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's remarkable that Lenin was hailed at any point as a champion of the masses. Having spent so long in exile his knowledge of the day-to-day existence of Russian peasants was precisely nil.

It's a little like the rise of Nazi Germany too, it could have gone in many different directions at a few points along the way. It was far from inevitable.
 
skilts said:
It threatened privileged people throughout the world, and still does.

That world has never been the same since.

I find it unconscionable that they embraced one of the most boring writers in history (Marx) as their impetus. This has caused subsequent generations to endure the ill-thought mumblings of mindless followers of crass determinism.

That's hardly thinking at all.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Marxism, Do you think it is a practical system? Do you think it will ever be able to be properly implemented?
 
chargers 09 said:
On the topic of Marxism, Do you think it is a practical system? Do you think it will ever be able to be properly implemented?
Click to expand...

I swear that was a question I had to answer in year 12 history.

Rasputins death is one epic story, lol.

Also, it's such bullshit the history you get stuck with in year 12. When I took it I was stuck with the French and Russian. I'd much rather have continued on with Nazi Germany.
 
Karensky should have triumphed. Russia would have been a parliamentary democracy for one hundred years by now and Tsar Nicholas's kids would have grown old.

Nicholas was a weak idiot with terrible advisers. He should have given in to the demand for a constitutional monarchy
 
chargers 09 said:
On the topic of Marxism, Do you think it is a practical system? Do you think it will ever be able to be properly implemented?
Click to expand...

The analysis and critique of Capitalism is OK but the millenarian project needed work - his outline after the proletarian revolution is not enough to base a system of government on
 
Contra Mundum said:
Karensky should have triumphed. Russia would have been a parliamentary democracy for one hundred years by now and Tsar Nicholas's kids would have grown old.

Nicholas was a weak idiot with terrible advisers. He should have given in to the demand for a constitutional monarchy
Click to expand...

Yep. Reminds me a lot of Charles I of England. Could not accept that their way or rule was obsolete. Ended up pretty similar too.
 
chargers 09 said:
On the topic of Marxism, Do you think it is a practical system?
Click to expand...
No.

1/ It requires a totalitarian government to implement it
2/Its successful implementation relies on a highly efficient bureaucracy (a contradiction in terms)
3/ It requires humans to transcend their self-interested nature.

Do you think it will ever be able to be properly implemented?
Click to expand...

It has already been implemented in the way Marx intended:

-1950s China - The 'great leap forward'. The result was the starvation of 20 million peasants through bureaucratic bungling. And the 'cultural revolution', whereby most intellectuals, religious leaders and sundry 'traitors' were tortured and killed.

- current day North Korea
 
chargers 09 said:
On the topic of Marxism, Do you think it is a practical system? Do you think it will ever be able to be properly implemented?
Click to expand...

I find no political 'system' to be practical. It is impossible for any of them to ever be implemented in actuality. None of which will prevent people pretending that it is practical and possible.
 
Partridge said:
Yep. Reminds me a lot of Charles I of England. Could not accept that their way or rule was obsolete. Ended up pretty similar too.
Click to expand...

His advisers where like the Memphis Mafia to Elvis "prescription drugs are OK E"! - they kept telling him that he had a God Given right to Govern that could not be restricted by commoners - and this was in the 20th Century for God's sake!
 
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