Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[Lady O]

It was off, so assume it went straight to message bank.

So, how would that tell him she had turned it off? If she was on another call or out of service area, or if there was a lot of "traffic" on the network, wouldn't it also go straight to message bank?

 

[Golden_6]

So, how would that tell him she had turned it off? If she was on another call or out of service area, or if there was a lot of "traffic" on the network, wouldn't it also go straight to message bank?

Well it’s pretty logical to assume he tried more than once over a period of time.

 

[Lady O]

Well it’s pretty logical to assume he tried more than once over a period of time.

Maybe, but I thought the family were onto the Police as soon as they were advised that she was late for the 11am gathering. Assuming he didn't miss her before that, otherwise you would think he would have been out looking earlier. Anyway, unless/until we know the whole story, we are just guessing.

 

[jason_recliner]

So, how would that tell him she had turned it off? If she was on another call or out of service area, or if there was a lot of "traffic" on the network, wouldn't it also go straight to message bank?

A lot of phones have call waiting - i.e. they ring even when the recipient is on another call.

 

[Kurve]

If it was an accident, why bundle her into the car? Why not just drive off? Moving and burying the body makes the crime much worse, and increases the risk of being caught.

They could have come from Redline Raceway which incidentally is in Buninyong, and been up partying all night. I noticed a few tents and campervans around the track.

If they don't know who she is or where she's from, local or tourist, by moving her out of sight they were hoping she wouldn't be found and not be reported missing until the following day?

 

[Percel]

Do we actually know how long police have had the data?
They cannot just acquire it instantly. It requires a court order.
And to get a court order requires evidence that a crime has been committed. They can't just go to a judge on a 'hunch' and request access to what is personal, private, and sometimes confidential information.
They might have got access to SM's phone data in a matter of days, but they would need some evidence linking a third party to a suspected crime to get access to that person's phone records.
Then it's a further step to get access to all tower data in the area over a time period - I don't know what criteria would be involved in getting all this data, but I would presume it is subject to some legal provisions which protect personal, private and confidential information. The judge would weigh up 'public interest' in this case, I assume?

How do we know that VICPOL doesn’t have authorised officers under the telecommunications Act?

It’s not always the case you need evidence that a crime has been committed, particularly when it’s under discovery to potential threat of harm to a person.
I know this and have used this approach.

In my space we have authorised officers unde telco and other Acts, as well as many that work under the Acts that legislate my own work.

It doesn’t take this long.

 

[shorsky]

Pretty good summary. You have more detail than I thought was public/official/verified, but it all sounds right. Is this from verified sources?
Either way, if MM has rung police after (1) searching her running route and finding no trace , and (2) noting the phone being switched off as unusual, and (3) knowing her unexplained lateness is totally out of character, this surely indicates foul play? If she was lost, or had an accident, or otherwise innocently delayed, then not ALL of the above 3 conditions would be true, right?

As I said ‘my thoughts’.

But I recall a friend / neighbour said in last couple of days that Mick tried to call her & phone was off, which it never is.

 

[shorsky]

Did anyone see the current affair show where the reporter talked to the neighbour? He acted like he had no idea Sam was missing although her husband mowed his lawn. Didn’t ask the neighbours if they’d seen her?

Do you have a link to the show please as I can’t find it

 

[shorsky]

So, how would that tell him she had turned it off? If she was on another call or out of service area, or if there was a lot of "traffic" on the network, wouldn't it also go straight to message bank?

I posed that question in my scenario, as per ( How he knew it was off I’m not sure- perhaps it diverted immediately if Switched Off, instead of waiting to be answered via Call Waiting alert )

 

[Iwonder]

Do you have a link to the show please as I can’t find it

Sorry I’m unable to upload the link but you might be able to find it on the current affair Facebook. They’ve done two segments on Samantha’s case. It’s the first one they did 3 days after her disappearance called ‘did something go wrong?’

 

[Iwonder]

They could have come from Redline Raceway which incidentally is in Buninyong, and been up partying all night. I noticed a few tents and campervans around the track.

If they don't know who she is or where she's from, local or tourist, by moving her out of sight they were hoping she wouldn't be found and not be reported missing until the following day?

I have no idea how often these races are on but was there a particular event on the 11th of Feb 23 when Sissy was bashed?

 

[Kurve]

I have no idea how often these races are on but was there a particular event on the 11th of Feb 23 when Sissy was bashed?

They had a meet 4th Feb which was cancelled due to rain and I can't find another until 18th Feb at Redline. The Redline team raced at Portland from what I can see on the 11th Feb.

 

[Iwonder]

They had a meet 4th Feb which was cancelled due to rain and I can't find another until 18th Feb at Redline. The Redline team raced at Portland from what I can see on the 11th Feb.

Thank you. No links to the races and both Samantha and Sissy’s cases then. Could be to Samantha‘s as mentioned though.

 

[31550]

How do we know that VICPOL doesn’t have authorised officers under the telecommunications Act?

It’s not always the case you need evidence that a crime has been committed, particularly when it’s under discovery to potential threat of harm to a person.
I know this and have used this approach.

In my space we have authorised officers unde telco and other Acts, as well as many that work under the Acts that legislate my own work.

It doesn’t take this long.

Great that it can be done quickly when it needs to.
I didn't know there were 'authorised officers' under the Telco Act. I would hope that there are proper legal processes in place and being followed which protect personal, private and confidential information according to all the relevant laws of the country.
How is 'potential threat of harm to a person' determined, and by whom?
It can be quite a leap from someone reporting a threat to releasing thousands of digital records which do not necessarily relate to either party. Civil liberties need to be balanced against the need to solve individual cases quickly.

 

[Percel]

Great that it can be done quickly when it needs to.
I didn't know there were 'authorised officers' under the Telco Act. I would hope that there are proper legal processes in place and being followed which protect personal, private and confidential information according to all the relevant laws of the country.
How is 'potential threat of harm to a person' determined, and by whom?
It can be quite a leap from someone reporting a threat to releasing thousands of digital records which do not necessarily relate to either party. Civil liberties need to be balanced against the need to solve individual cases quickly.

in some of the bigger agencies there is a delegate at a very high position to deal with these decisions, particularly with telco data. As you rightly pointed out, it has to be considered across many factors when pulling the trigger. And you're not necessarily getting all eh data, you only get what you need with personal identifiers removed until such time that you are shore up your analysis.

 

[faible]

Maybe, but I thought the family were onto the Police as soon as they were advised that she was late for the 11am gathering. Assuming he didn't miss her before that, otherwise you would think he would have been out looking earlier. Anyway, unless/until we know the whole story, we are just guessing.

This is one of those situations where a distinct lack of detail has meant that shoddy media reporting or slightly inaccurate use of words has meant people have jumped to definitive conclusions.

Police saying 'they reported her missing as soon as they realised she wasn't at brunch' doesn't mean there wasn't some level of attempt to contact and/or look for her.

Even if you'd ordered a hit, you'd have to be really dumb not to at least pretend to log some calls to her mobile as cover.

 

[jason_recliner]

How is 'potential threat of harm to a person' determined, and by whom?

If it's not in the Act, and it's challenged for some reason, it's determined on a case-by-case basis in the courts.

 

[Lady O]

This is one of those situations where a distinct lack of detail has meant that shoddy media reporting or slightly inaccurate use of words has meant people have jumped to definitive conclusions.

Police saying 'they reported her missing as soon as they realised she wasn't at brunch' doesn't mean there wasn't some level of attempt to contact and/or look for her.

Even if you'd ordered a hit, you'd have to be really dumb not to at least pretend to log some calls to her mobile as cover.

No, I agree it doesn't make sense.

If we ever get the correct information from the sources it might become clearer. In the meantime, we are reliant on inaccurate/inconsistent reporting.

 

[31550]

If it's not in the Act, and it's challenged for some reason, it's determined on a case-by-case basis in the courts.

That's not good enough. Who is going to know about it to challenge it until after the fact, when privacy provisions have already been breached? We may never know this has happened.

Even if it is "in the Act", someone needs to make a subjective decision that the provisions of the Act have been followed. Is the decision-maker an independent, suitably qualified and authorised person, or is it someone with a possible vested interest, or conflict of interest?

I am concerned about the release of personal/private/confidential data to third parties and agencies without a court order, and without evidence of a crime being committed.

 

[jason_recliner]

That's not good enough. Who is going to know about it to challenge it until after the fact, when privacy provisions have already been breached? We may never know this has happened.

Even if it is "in the Act", someone needs to make a subjective decision that the provisions of the Act have been followed. Is the decision-maker an independent, suitably qualified and authorised person, or is it someone with a possible vested interest, or conflict of interest?

I am concerned about the release of personal/private/confidential data to third parties and agencies without a court order, and without evidence of a crime being committed.

There's a lot of legislation, law and regulation in my field I suspect you'd consider "not good enough", and then the Minister can veto most anything regardless of advice and decisions made by others. I assume it's the same for all the areas of legislation/law I don't work within

 

[Percel]

When I first joined my current role way back when, I was informed i was an authorised officer under the Lighthouses Act...

 

[rdhopkins2]

A 22yo man has been arrested over Samantha’s disappearance! No charges laid yet.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/man-arrested-over-disappearance-of-samantha-murphy/news-story/ff3bfc5a3fc3c310a2c164c6d372d618?amp

 

[moncon]

A man has been arrested over Samantha’s disappearance!

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/man-arrested-over-disappearance-of-samantha-murphy/news-story/ff3bfc5a3fc3c310a2c164c6d372d618?amp

What does it say?!?!

 

[maskmcgee]

A 22 year old man, so it's not the husband.

 

[BFew]