Mega Thread The Adam Goodes Megathread - Now with Added Poll!

[Monkey King]

Well again, you're arguing semantics. The Aboriginals had the land, the Europeans invaded and colonised it. It's not really in dispute.

That the British colonised land occupied by Indigenous Australians is not up for dispute. Yes. That the British invaded is most definitely. You can call that semantics, but gee, to me that's just you wanting to say what you want without anyone disagreeing. Sorry, too bad. I disagree.

 

[bungwahl]

But it doesn't seem to line up with all the backlash he received and him being viewed as polarising. But I'm sure it was all racists responsible for that impression, not that he hung a kid out to dry -- so you just disregard the "racists" in your mind?

I can only speak to myself and people I know as to the notions most put forth for the backlash... none in my life held racist attitudes. They could not have (with so many different races in my circles it wouldn't fly)

"He put a mirror up to Australia, they didn't like it"

In 1967 the biggest mirror ever was put up to Australians and they voted 90% in favour of aboriginal rights. Such a racist people those voters were though.

Skin colour doth not come into it for mine.

How did Adam Goodes hang the girl out to dry? Or are you referring to the media response?

 

[momentbymoment]

1) So, you are one of those psuedo-intellects under some romantic illusion indigenous tribes were like latter-day hippies? Living off the land does not mean universal harmony to each other. They were still human beings prone to violence and abhorrent acts, just like other peoples in history.

And always in danger of in-fighting, tribal wars, slaughter and worse (rape etc) over that time period

2) Who is outraged over the slur? It was more that he pointed out a little girl who didn't know better and ran with it. Oh and "That community" -- way to reduce them all to the same entity! You clearly understand what it was like back then

It's not a judgement of good or bad, it is simply an observation that their culture survived for 50,000 years.

It was the oldest surviving culture on the planet and yes - I for one have a lot of Respect for that.

 

[B4Bear]

I am not an Adam Goodes fan for many reasons, whether it be his staging, or his sly little snipes on the field, or his whinging, or even his Australia Day speech (which I found to be more divisive than anything else). The fact that he is a protected speicies and if anybody dares to say something bad against him, that person is obviously a racist, probably annoys me the most.
I personally am not a person who boos, if I was then Thomas would get a good go because of his ducking.
That being said, if the point of all the booing was to let Goodes know that he may not be as popular as he may think, than I think he and everybody else gets it.
Whether we like the man or not, with two brownlows around his neck, the man could obviously play football and isn't the reason we are even on this site, is because we all love football. As this may very well be his last year ("we hope so", I hear some of us say), lets let him have his dignity.
Again, the message has been sent and recieved, by know means do we have to cheer his every move but we also don't have to destroy the bloke.

THE FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE ADAM GOODES 2014 AUSTRALIAN OF THE YEAR ACCEPTANCE SPEECH
“It’s an honour to win an award for doing stuff that you love and that you believe in. For me, I chose that life is all about actions and interactions. I believe that our choices and how we interact with each other creates our relationships and this in turn creates the environment that we live in.
Our environment shapes our communities which then shapes the country that we all live in. Growing up as an indigenous Australian I have experienced my fair share of racism. While it has been difficult a lot of the time, it has also taught me a lot and also shaped my values and what I believe in today. I believe racism is a community issue which we all need to address and that’s why racism stops with me.
There are always two ways we can look at a situation. We can choose to get angry. Or not. We can choose to help others. Or not. Or choose to be offended. Or not. We can keep our silence or educate ourselves and others about racism and minority populations.
It is not just about taking responsibility for your own actions but speaking to your mates when they take out their anger on their loved ones, minority groups or make racist remarks. It means treating people the way you want to be treated, whether that’s your manners, the way you talk to people, whether they are your loved ones or the person serving your dinner. It’s about how you choose to give back and make a difference to those around you, your community or your country that goes outside of just yourself.
I believe we are all connected whether we like it or not. We are all equal and the same in so many ways. My hope is that we as a nation can break down the silos between races, break down those stereotypes of minority populations, indigenous populations and all other minority groups. I hope we can be proud of our heritage regardless of the colour of our skin and be proud to be Australian.
I’m not here to tell you what to think, or how to act to raise your children. All I’m here to do is tell you about my experiences and hope you choose to be aware of your actions and interactions so that together we can eliminate racism.
I’m so grateful for this award and this honour, however the real reward is when everyone is talking to their mates, to their families and their children, having those conversations and educating others about racism. What it looks like, how hurtful and how pointless it is and how we can eliminate it.
The ultimate reward is when all Australians see each other as equals and treat each other as equals. To me, everything is about people and the choices we make. I believe it’s the people and the interactions between us that makes this country so special. Thank you so much and have a great Australia Day.”

Now would you care to point out what is divisive about that and why you are so offended?

 

[Monkey King]

Mate stay in LA you have singlehandedly done more for raising the Australian IQ level than more than a century of universal education.

LOL. One surely wonders why the righteous and self proclaimed superior intellect struggles so with processing opinion different to their own.

 

[bungwahl]

That the British colonised land occupied by Indigenous Australians is not up for dispute. Yes. That the British invaded is most definitely. You can call that semantics, but gee, to me that's just you wanting to say what you want without anyone disagreeing. Sorry, too bad. I disagree.

The land had occupants already. If it was an empty island you can claim there was no invasion because there was no one to invade.

Again, we're off on silly tangents that detract from the real issue.

 

[Monkey King]

Mate post-modernism in education has a lot to answer for. Country has varies meanings. Its not meant what you mean by it. Its what the word means. You just make stuff up don't you?

Explain to me how this continent was one country prior to 1901.

 

[subaru]

Sorry, but that's nonsense. Goodes met with the young girl and they talked things through. Goodes then went to her defence, in public: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...to-blame-for-racial-taunt-20130525-2n3bx.html

Miranda Devine and fellow media numpties labelled her the "face of racism".

No
It's not
You are wrong - again
I've seen the video of his presser the next day (9am) where he " invites" her to apologize
So he did not make first contact
as you would expect in an adult child type situation
It was at that presser shown and broadcast nationally that he came up with face of racism comment - ridiculous and foolish to blame Devine

Too full of "hurt" feelings to clearly think his way through the whole situation

Claimed he was" shattered"- from comment by a child ....


Jesus Wept

 

[kfc1]

Sorry, but that's nonsense. Goodes met with the young girl and they talked things through. Goodes then went to her defence, in public: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...to-blame-for-racial-taunt-20130525-2n3bx.html

Miranda Devine and fellow media numpties labelled her the "face of racism".

Incorrect. Goodes did label her the face of racism
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...y-called-ape-escorted-stand-racist-abuse.html

Goodes told the Melbourne Herald Sunafterwards that, 'Racism had a face...and it was a 13-year-old girl - but it's not her fault,' said Goodes.

 

[connolly]

Imagine if Goodes was gay. And ran at the crowd miming fellatio.

Alan Jones would jump the fence.

 

[momentbymoment]

This tired old trick. Verify the unverifiable (we are on an online forum). Who's scoring more points! We don't have to be doing as much as Adam to criticise his behaviour. Absurd logic.

It comes down to the person and the way they chose to deal with society around them, not just the accomplishments. No different with Goodes. And many white and indigenous people I know feel the same ill feelings about him since his playing issues in the 2000's, and then his activism efforts since. While most agree bringing this country together is the way forward.

Long, McLeod, Winmar, Wirrpunda. Just some examples of footballers who have all done more body of works than Adam by far, done it better, and are better people in my view to be held up and lead us further down the path of solutions for the first Australians. They are a diverse people and those "social justice" activists like Goodes want to boil it down to a sound bite like everyone is in lockstep.

So many better examples dead and alive we have already to look to from the indigenous peoples. Ones who have spent their life doing it too. Not just their spare time.

Spoiler

"Mandawuy Djarrtjuntjun Yunupingu On 26 January 1993 Yunupingu was named Australian of the Year for 1992 by the National Australia Day Council.[21][36] In April 1998 he was awarded an honorary doctorate by the Queensland University of Technology, "in recognition of his significant contribution to the education of Aboriginal children, and to greater understanding between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians".[2] Yothu Yindi were inducted into the ARIA Hall of Fame in December 2012"​

I remember as a kid thinking how amazing it was. It was then, as a primary school kid I realised that there was a difference in peoples minds as to colour. Here I was just befriending whoever nationality and race I felt drawn to for the person they were.

But I could tell from the adults in my life and the words on TV this man was a significant seismic shift in recognition of indigenous people in our national culture. One of the first "celebrated" figures.

"Sir Douglas Ralph "Doug" Nicholls, KCVO, OBE (9 December 1906 – 4 June 1988)[1] was a prominent Aboriginal Australian from the Yorta Yorta people. He was a professional athlete, Churches of Christ pastor and church planter, ceremonial officer and a pioneering campaigner for reconciliation.
Nicholls was the first Aboriginal person to be knighted and also the first appointed to vice-regal office, serving as Governor of South Australia from 1 December 1976 until his resignation on 30 April 1977 due to poor health."​

Read up on him. Was the first aboriginal Governor of a state, first to be knighted. He was good enough to be an VFL player but could not play due to racist attitudes. I feel for him immensely, but what a life he carved after that adversity of rejection from playing at the elite level.

He started reconciliation, was a pioneer of it. Definitely one to be held up. Look at this quote from him -- "You can play a tune on black keys, you can play a tune on white keys, but both are needed for perfect harmony." -- Sir Douglas Nicholls

Isn't that just the antithesis of Adam Goodes style of "reconciliation"

"Marion Scrymgour was the first Indigenous woman to become a minister and has to date been the highest ranked Indigenous woman in a government, when she became Deputy Chief Minister of the Northern Territory from 2007 until 2009"
​

Politicians, lawyers, people on the ground, these are how changes get done. Like the 1967 referendum which then saw aboriginal politicians accepted into office. Small steps. A lot of them every year. No one grandstanding credit, just workerbee like changes, happening for decades now.

"Jeffrey Lee is the last surviving member of the Djok clan, and therefore the sole traditional owner of land known as Koongarra, in the Northern Territory. The area is rich in uranium and despite the potential to earn millions from a sale, Lee consistently said “no” to mining on his land. Last year the Australian of the Year award recognised his work protecting land that is “home to sacred burial sites and other special places that Jeffrey feels a sense of responsibility to look after”. In 2013 the land was incorporated into the World Heritage-listed Kakadu National Park, for which Jeffrey works as a ranger, and is thus permanently protected from uranium mining.
​

After decades of fighting, and with literally millions of dollars offered to him, that he would have been in trust of as land owner/caretaker, he said no. Pretty bold proud Australian choosing to live his way. -- Koongarra has been included in the World Heritage listed Kakadu National Park in Australia's Northern Territory - and permanently protected from mining.

This notion that one highly visible role model should be the championed path to furthering reconciliation is both insulting to the hard-working people who invested their lives in it for 100 years, and also a dumb strategy. It's a recipe for a divisive outcome. And the person chosen to be held up has fulfilled that outcome, unfortunately.

I see.
So Adam should sit and do nothing because others have done more?

You are concerned about the girl in the crowd and you are not the only one. Most people were concerned for her welfare, including Adam.

Do you also have concerns for aboriginal mothers who bring up their children knowing that they are 15x more likely to end up in prison than white kids?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This whole thread is a great example of the Muhammed Ali effect, where given the choice, people will laud their moral superiority over others but will not claim they are smarter.

People who are on their moral high horse are sad little panda's.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of people championing Goodes' stand have never done anything to further or contribute to Indigenous culture.

You'd lose your bet on me alone, and I'm sure there are many others here who would blow apart your hypothesis.

 

[carloss]

Why would the HUN print something like this, other than to be divisive.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...goodes-with-eggs/story-fni0fit3-1227463995262

This crap offers nothing to the debate other than to create a bigger divide. Jesus, its Friday, the footy starts today. Stop printing this crap, and start talking about what maybe be the game of the round

Poor form from the HUN. What if Adelaide fans going to the game read that? What steps will they take?

 

[subaru]

The land had occupants already. If it was an empty island you can claim there was no invasion because there was no one to invade.

Again, we're off on silly tangents that detract from the real issue.

Then hand what bit you own back

Easy fixed

 

[magic.merkin]

um, yeah it is pretty close champ.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

sorry we covered it after that post in other posts, i confused the belief and the actions. Carry on!

 

[ManWithNoName]

No I wasn't you peanut.. I couldn't give a rats arse about what people do in general. Where did I complain and isolate indigenous people? You're a goose

And now you're resorting to toys-out-of-pram style personal attacks. Childish and boring.

 

[Suma Magic]

Prove it. And not anonymous big footy posters who claim to be one eighth or something

Prove that I'm not sure?

Think you misread my post mate.

 

[awaremind]

Yes. Australia is an example. A small colony was settled in one part of a vast land. There was no defending force to overcome; they simply unpacked the ships and set up shop. Then another colony was settled somewhere else independently and another and then another. Eventually they federated into a nation. There was no invasion of a state or territory. Land was settled, local populations subdued and control was established. This is not an invasion. If only some who claim it was could have stood on the beaches of Normandy to get some perspective on the term.

The American colonies are another. A number of different colonies settled by different parties.

Clearly you don't know much about how white people broke trearties with the indigenous Americans in the USA time after time until they only had control of the pitiful reservations they have now. Whole nations moved across the continent, then moved again.

 

[subaru]

Poor form from the HUN. What if Adelaide fans going to the game read that? What steps will they take?

In fairness they do say they'll only throw eggs at people booing at Goodes

However there will be booing at Tippet and I would dare say - knowing our supporters - we are entitled to do that and if an egg is thrown that particular thrower will have their arse sued

 

[kfc1]

Gillon McLachlan seems to agree with those of us who said the booing is not racist:

“It’s very disappointing to see Adam booed as a general comment. I am not sure that booing has a place in our game,’’ he said.
“...I have been wrestling with why people have been booing Adam. I don’t think anyone really likes it.” ...
“People fear that [it is driven by racism]. I am not sure [the racist angle] is there. If you take the Hawthorn game, Cyril Rioli and Shaun Burgoyne have been the most loved and revered players in the Hawthorn playing group...”

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/..._gets_it_the_booing_of_goodes_was_not_racist/

 

[Monkey King]

The land had occupants already. If it was an empty island you can claim there was no invasion because there was no one to invade.

Yes. The land was occupied. And Homo Sapiens are suspected to have migrated to lands occupied by Neanderthals. Did they now invade those lands too? Is this the defining condition for what constitutes an invasion? I think you'll find it's not actually.

Anyway. This low-IQ, naive and deluded douche is going to leave you all to it for a while. Have fun beating yourselves up

 

[kfc1]

That's your opinion. Having been to all Swans home games and 3 away games this year, I can tell you it's totally different.

Does Ballantyne play for the Swans?

 

[Nikita Blue]

Garbage...
No one has condoned that

This is the problem
Those defending Goodes take everything to the extreme

Accept a mistake was made and move the **** on
But no
- now Sydney cheer squad are listing up with eggs to physically assault anyone who dares boo him


For Gods sake

They were booing not lynching him !

Plenty of people in this thread have argued it is not racist - go back and have a read.

 

[subaru]

What is with your weird obsession with AG not hugging the girl? You've raised it a few times now

Hug
Shake her hand
Pat her on the head
Smile at her and accept her apology

It was an example FFS of a way he could demonstrate forgiveness

Typically you bounce on that rather than the fact that he wanted her to front him after he called her Face Of Racism


Give me a break

 

[Lockyer24]

The bleeding hearts want it to be about racism, how else can they feel good about themselves being such heroic activists from their twitter accounts