Peptides! *The * Dopers: come smell the bull****! ESSENDON FANS NOT WANTED

[Strapping Young Lad]

I had a cuppa with someone (in the know) this morning. TB4 made it's way from China to Dank. That is known (and in the report apparently which is why it will never be made public). What could not be drawn (proved) is the line from Dank and the TB4 to the players apparently. The fact Dank/Alavi/Charter did not have to give evidence means that all this amounts to is an aquittal (not innocence as has been mentioned in previous posts correctly).

I am not sure the appeal process, no matter how high it goes would have increased powers of compellability? Unless they can be compelled, as happens in normal court proceedings, I cannot see this going any further. They have gotten away with it.

See, I think that's bullshit because players told ASADA that they received injections of a substance taken from a bottle that they were told was Thymosin. That's fact.

They also signed consent forms to say they were getting Thymosin.

The pattern of injection mirrored that of TB4 use.

Then there's emails between Dank and Robinson talking about how Thymosin would be the cornerstone of the program.

All along people have wanted to say that it may have been Thymomodulin, yet this was rejected by the tribunal and the advocates for the players didn't even bother to argue for it.

How the tribunal could throw all of those links to TB4 to the side and instead choose to run with "we don't know what it was" is pretty staggering to me, but not at all surprising because as I had feared the "AFL" tribunal got the outcome it desired.

 

[Brishawk]

What i have been wondering is whether this not guilty finding to the players would harm their cause if they decided to sue Essendon at a later stage for health complications arising from their injection program.

Fast forwarding 10 years, for the players, the best result could have actually been a 2 week ban.

They really need to change the burden of proof in these sorts of cases, if you can't prove through record keeping, what was given to your players, then it can only be assumed that it wasn't legal. What's a little perplexing is that Dank swears he kept good records, which i believe because to monitor progress, very strict records would need to be kept. The absence of their records should automatically result in a guilty plea, otherwise you open up a can of worms that WADA/ASADA and sport in general can't afford.

Yep. While the AFL anti-doping policy makes the clubs responsible for record keeping and identifies players must also disclose to the club what substances they have been taking, there appears no penalty for not doing so. Major breaches such as this should result in instant suspensions.If the rules don't change out of this then you know the AFL are happy to let it all slide.

 

[Great 2008]

See, I think that's bullshit because players told ASADA that they received injections of a substance taken from a bottle that they were told was Thymosin. That's fact.

They also signed consent forms to say they were getting Thymosin.

The pattern of injection mirrored that of TB4 use.

Then there's emails between Dank and Robinson talking about how Thymosin would be the cornerstone of the program.

All along people have wanted to say that it may have been Thymomodulin, yet this was rejected by the tribunal and the advocates for the players didn't even bother to argue for it.

How the tribunal could throw all of those links to TB4 to the side and instead choose to run with "we don't know what it was" is pretty staggering to me, but not at all surprising because as I had feared the "AFL" tribunal got the outcome it desired.

You won't get any argument from me. However, if what you state is true the tribunal has erred greatly in their not guilty finding? The whole thing stinks from just about every direction.

(I have a law/including court background and am just trying to make sense of it all - like everyone I think).

 

[MrFujiMoto]

......but not at all surprising because as I had feared the "AFL" tribunal got the outcome it desired.

Of course it did. Part of me thinks the AFL are thinking "Geez, let it be we fined them and kicked them out of the finals, just let it be". They may even be trying to push that case to WADA, in an attempt to satisfy WADA that they are taking the hard line. In the end I don't think the AFL wanted to be the entity that kicked Essendon out of the competition for a year, especially considering the new rights deal is coming up again soon. this will give them time, even if WADA appeal, and i hope they do for all the reasons listed above. This is also more palatable for the AFL brand. They can carry on a mirage of "we didn't do anything, it was WADA". That will help them continue to keep a good PR message.

So in the end they may well expect that Essendon are in the s**t, but this way the season launch kicks off to plan, they get some extra time in the rights deal and they are not the bad guys in all this. WADA are the bad cop, Essendon cops their bans from WADA and not the AFL and the world goes on.

 

[JustKickIt]

So, if I get a gun, and shoot Vlad and a few others, say I did it, but deny that in court, and I didn't think it was wrong. If the gun is never found, then they couldn't convict me. Sounds about right?

You just say they were blanks and shred the receipt for the bullets. Job done

 

[Rhayader]

I have been laughing at how quickly Bombers fans went from "the AFL Tribunal has already made its mind, it just a stitch up and can't be trusted" to "the AFL Tribunal is the absolute purveyor of truth" ...

 

[hawker11]

I now debate whether the "not guilty" decision has actually aided the reputation of the sport. The way Essendon has reacted to the verdict is staggering given they continue to suppress details. Pertinent questions are being drowned out by the noise from a mixture of celebration and anger toward ASADA (who were simply doing their best to keep the sport clean).

I don't believe there is a club that matches Essendon as far as media influence is concerned - it takes me back to the Lloyd/Sewell incident, somehow the media narrative had Hawthorn as the perpetrators and bad guys out of that gutless act.

Go ahead and pop the champagne and slam ASADA all you like, but until there is some transparency I will continue to suspect what went on crossed the line.

Discouraging ASADA to appeal due to the cost to the taxpayer is yet another PR move that tells me that there is something to hide.

 

[Blaze Storm]

I now debate whether the "not guilty" decision has actually aided the reputation of the sport. The way Essendon has reacted to the verdict is staggering given they continue to suppress details. Pertinent questions are being drowned out by the noise from a mixture of celebration and anger toward ASADA (who were simply doing their best to keep the sport clean).

I don't believe there is a club that matches Essendon as far as media influence is concerned - it takes me back to the Lloyd/Sewell incident, somehow the media narrative had Hawthorn as the perpetrators and bad guys out of that gutless act.

Go ahead and pop the champagne and slam ASADA all you like, but until there is some transparency I will continue to suspect what went on crossed the line.

Discouraging ASADA to appeal due to the cost to the taxpayer is yet another PR move that tells me that there is something to hide.

I love hearing Lloyd's recount of the story, he's the dashing hero, putting his career on the line to take his team into the finals. And then the evil king Clarkson tried to yell at him. Of course, if he'd tried anything Lloyd would have "put him on his arse" but he's such an "angry little man".

hecktard. My brothers are * supporters, and even they hate the prick.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Workcover now poking their head in.

You don't know what you injected your players with? How about we investigate this as negligence?

 

[2Sewell4School]

The Melbourne Airport training base will be built in partnership with the Australian Paralympic Committee, guaranteeing $6 million in federal funding. Further funds will be sought from the AFL and State Government

They were more than happy to take money from the tax payer to help fund their new training ground. What a crock.

 

[rdhopkins2]

They were more than happy to take money from the tax payer to help fund their new training ground. What a crock.

How much did Hawthorn receive from the Feds to relocate to Waverley? $0?

We should be extending the arm if we move again haha.

 

[rdhopkins2]

See, I think that's bullshit because players told ASADA that they received injections of a substance taken from a bottle that they were told was Thymosin. That's fact.

They also signed consent forms to say they were getting Thymosin.

The pattern of injection mirrored that of TB4 use.

Then there's emails between Dank and Robinson talking about how Thymosin would be the cornerstone of the program.

All along people have wanted to say that it may have been Thymomodulin, yet this was rejected by the tribunal and the advocates for the players didn't even bother to argue for it.

How the tribunal could throw all of those links to TB4 to the side and instead choose to run with "we don't know what it was" is pretty staggering to me, but not at all surprising because as I had feared the "AFL" tribunal got the outcome it desired.

If it stinks like produce from a bull's bunghole, it probably is

 

[Argy]

Workcover now poking their head in.

You don't know what you injected your players with? How about we investigate this as negligence?

I sent an email to ASADA today (not really expecting a response) asking if the players can be prosecuted for injecting S0 substances. Under the WADA code S0 basically means any substance that has not received approval for therapeutic use.

Reasoning behind my question: The players admitted to injecting "unknown" substances. No "unknown" substance has ever been approved for therapeutic use. By definition the EFC players have been injected multiple times with unknown/S0 substance(s) and should receive appropriate penalties.

An argument along these lines would very effectively overcome the "dog ate my homework" defence the EFC players appear to have put up. It would meant that you must be penalised unless you can demonstrate that what you injected is acceptable.

 

[rdhopkins2]

I sent an email to ASADA today (not really expecting a response) asking if the players can be prosecuted for injecting S0 substances. Under the WADA code S0 basically means any substance that has not received approval for therapeutic use.

Reasoning behind my question: The players admitted to injecting "unknown" substances. No "unknown" substance has ever been approved for therapeutic use. By definition the EFC players have been injected multiple times with unknown/S0 substance(s) and should receive appropriate penalties.

An argument along these lines would very effectively overcome the "dog ate my homework" defence the EFC players appear to have put up. It would meant that you must be penalised unless you can demonstrate that what you injected is acceptable.

That's actually both funny and smart. Let us know how ASADA respond.

 

[rdhopkins2]

I sent an email to ASADA today (not really expecting a response) asking if the players can be prosecuted for injecting S0 substances. Under the WADA code S0 basically means any substance that has not received approval for therapeutic use.

Reasoning behind my question: The players admitted to injecting "unknown" substances. No "unknown" substance has ever been approved for therapeutic use. By definition the EFC players have been injected multiple times with unknown/S0 substance(s) and should receive appropriate penalties.

An argument along these lines would very effectively overcome the "dog ate my homework" defence the EFC players appear to have put up. It would meant that you must be penalised unless you can demonstrate that what you injected is acceptable.

That's actually both funny and smart. Let us know how ASADA respond.

 

[Argy]

That's actually both funny and smart. Let us know how ASADA respond.

Flattery will get you everywhere. If I get a response I'll let you know!

 

[realhawk]

At the end of the day this was the result that was always going to happen. Pure brand protection and stage management from the AFL. As soon as we learned that it would be an AFL tribunal hearing this sorry saga the result was " a feint a compliat "

 

[Whistling Hawk]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the minute the ball is bounced at 16:35 on Saturday the bombers will lose any possibility of backdated suspensions?
I realise either ASADA or WADA have to appeal and win but I would dearly love to make bomber fans feel a sense of doom about that moment.

 

[Off The Couch]

http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/prime...al-was-overblown/story-fnhnv0wb-1227288837754

This is just so wrong on so many levels. I can't believe he has used this to take a swipe at the opposition. Whether they did or didn't is irrelevant, it still happened and needed addressing, not swept under the carpet. I cannot believe this guy is my representative on the world stage

 

[B0SK]

Sadly, this is true. I stuffed my back in a work incident in June last year. I didn't miss any work, I was placed on light duties and attended rehabilitation sessions. All they gave a s**t about was seeing to be doing something, and they couldn't wait to sign off on my case. Here I am, 9 months later, still disabled with back complaints, struggling to do my job, struggling to get out of bed some mornings, but at least Workcover doesn't have to worry about me anymore. I'm no longer on their books. I don't know what I expected from Workcover, but it hasn't done me any good whatsoever.

Hey mate, just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear about your back and I hope it gradually improves as you continue to work on it.

Back injuries can be really tricky as you know and its often a case of managing rather than solving them, but things like upping your general health & fitness levels and improving your diet or even taking time off to let things settle down instead of trying to push through the pain (which can often inflame things further) can really help. I've had back issues myself and know how restrictive and unpredictable they can be, but massage, physio, water therapy, acupuncture and even good old fashioned narcotics can help make things bearable.

I'm not surprised to hear your experience with Workcover hasn't been positive. They don't have a great reputation. Which is quite tragic when you consider how many thousands of Victorians out there desperately need the assistance.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/prime...al-was-overblown/story-fnhnv0wb-1227288837754

This is just so wrong on so many levels. I can't believe he has used this to take a swipe at the opposition. Whether they did or didn't is irrelevant, it still happened and needed addressing, not swept under the carpet. I cannot believe this guy is my representative on the world stage

They didn't interview any of the key people, or the players, and yet they are totally satisfied with their findings ... what a sham.

 

[B0SK]

How the tribunal could throw all of those links to TB4 to the side and instead choose to run with "we don't know what it was" is pretty staggering to me, but not at all surprising because as I had feared the "AFL" tribunal got the outcome it desired.

Forcible misinterpretation of comfortable satisfaction at Gilligan's behest would be my guess.


"Remember David, you need to be sure about this. Like, really really sure. I mean it."
....."I know Gill, you rang me ten minutes ago and told me the same thing."
"No problem David, just making sure there's no crossed wires. Give my regards to John & Wayne. Talk soon."

5 minutes later.
"David its me again. Do you have time to talk?"

 

[CD Xbow]

Hirds lawyer is going on the attack http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/hir...nd-afl-ceo-to-stand-down-20150402-1mdufy.html

Why is he doing this? They won didn't they?
He did lose Hird case so he may feel he should do something for million bucks or so. Other than that why would he keep at?

This follows the PM sticking his crooked nose in. Saw a comment from a green senator somewhere that it should be done and dusted. The evil ones have more planned.

 

[Thaihawk]

http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/prime...al-was-overblown/story-fnhnv0wb-1227288837754

This is just so wrong on so many levels. I can't believe he has used this to take a swipe at the opposition. Whether they did or didn't is irrelevant, it still happened and needed addressing, not swept under the carpet. I cannot believe this guy is my representative on the world stage

But, we all know that man knows nothing about anything.

 

[Garf]

There's rather a big lump in the carpet at AFL House.