Tertiary and Continuing The Law Thread

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Shoei said:
Well since i start clerking on the 5th of Jan i would like to know whats expected of me? I'm worried i'm going to be asked to do something i have no idea of and end up looking like a right tit.
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I'm not sure, but I'd think they wouldn't expect too much at the start because you just came out of uni and even people who have been in law for years would still have more to learn. It's not like you could know it all from your course.

At the same time they might throw you in the deep end a bit so you learn. As a patent attorney it was a pretty steep learning curve.

I haven't been a clerk, so maybe other people who have graduated from undergrad law could give better advice on this part.
 
eaglespremiers said:
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What I would do to that woman....

Shoei said:
Well since i start clerking on the 5th of Jan i would like to know whats expected of me? I'm worried i'm going to be asked to do something i have no idea of and end up looking like a right tit.
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Same as any workplace - don't presume to know everything, shut up and listen, don't backtalk rah rah rah.
I started at a small country firm in the back half of last year (just graduated) and have basically been subject to a number of different areas (Wills and Estates, Conveyancing, Family Law, Contract disputes). Although you may be loaded up with a heap of work, i've found the main expectation is to give it a red hot crack, AND THEN ask questions as to how to proceed. If you're asking questions before you've even attempted to work it out yourself, you'll be out the door in two seconds flat.

And congratulations though, IP Law would be unreal
 

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Catch me if you can! :D
Wow Donners, actually really found that interesting. I'll never be a lawyer (or claim to be one) but enthralling reading nonetheless. I suppose there is always a credit average student somewhere purporting to have gained superior results to their actual achievements / work experience etc.
 
DirtyHeardy said:
What I would do to that woman....



Same as any workplace - don't presume to know everything, shut up and listen, don't backtalk rah rah rah.
I started at a small country firm in the back half of last year (just graduated) and have basically been subject to a number of different areas (Wills and Estates, Conveyancing, Family Law, Contract disputes). Although you may be loaded up with a heap of work, i've found the main expectation is to give it a red hot crack, AND THEN ask questions as to how to proceed. If you're asking questions before you've even attempted to work it out yourself, you'll be out the door in two seconds flat.

And congratulations though, IP Law would be unreal
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Best place to learn - thrown in the deep end. The big end of town is nice from a technical point of view (two years pointless memos on esoteric points) but you want even do a directions hearing until your a Senior Associate - if that. You specialise too early as well
 
Contra Mundum said:
Best place to learn - thrown in the deep end. The big end of town is nice from a technical point of view (two years pointless memos on esoteric points) but you want even do a directions hearing until your a Senior Associate - if that. You specialise too early as well
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Depends where you work and the practice area though. For some of the top firms (especially overseas), plenty of senior and mid level associates bail around bonus time. Leaving the juniors with a baptism by fire.
 
TheMightyEagles said:
Depends where you work and the practice area though. For some of the top firms (especially overseas), plenty of senior and mid level associates bail around bonus time. Leaving the juniors with a baptism by fire.
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Might be old fart factor - did my articles last century!
 
DirtyHeardy said:
What I would do to that woman....



Same as any workplace - don't presume to know everything, shut up and listen, don't backtalk rah rah rah.
I started at a small country firm in the back half of last year (just graduated) and have basically been subject to a number of different areas (Wills and Estates, Conveyancing, Family Law, Contract disputes). Although you may be loaded up with a heap of work, i've found the main expectation is to give it a red hot crack, AND THEN ask questions as to how to proceed. If you're asking questions before you've even attempted to work it out yourself, you'll be out the door in two seconds flat.

And congratulations though, IP Law would be unreal
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Geez that's the opposite of the advice I would give.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions, indeed it shows that you have turned your mind/shown some initiative to research what might be expected of you for a particular task. The last thing your employer wants is for you to timidly be going around in circles, when a simple answer to a question might be all you need to point you in the right direction.

The main mistake, in my opinion, is frequently asking the same questions.
 

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Hey guys noticed that La Trobe the ability to apply to study Law for 2015, I have wanted to study Law since I was 20. The issue is I have not completed year 12, nor have I studied at Tafe, had any work experiences in the field. I understand that it is not easy, but I feel I am smart enough and motivated enough to succeed in the field.

Am I able to apply if not, what pathway do I need to take to study Law, I am 24, 25 in April. Any help would be so very great.
 
freddy mercury said:
Hey guys noticed that La Trobe the ability to apply to study Law for 2015, I have wanted to study Law since I was 20. The issue is I have not completed year 12, nor have I studied at Tafe, had any work experiences in the field. I understand that it is not easy, but I feel I am smart enough and motivated enough to succeed in the field.

Am I able to apply if not, what pathway do I need to take to study Law, I am 24, 25 in April. Any help would be so very great.
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I will only hazard a guess, but I imagine completion of Year 12 would be a minimum requirement.
 
Does anyone recommend any tips to get work experience. I need to get some in order to graduate, I've tried emailing, calling law firms but all said they are not offering any at this stage.
 
davo99 said:
Ah sorry miss typed that. Just need to find some work experience before I graduate. I can still graduate without it, but I think It will be better.
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Agree with Reep. If you are unable to score a vacation clerkship, you should try to leverage any personal connections you have. If that doesn't work, try to think laterally. People do all kinds of things - even like clerking for firms interstate or overseas (where your English skills might be enough to get you a gig). Whatever helps you to get your foot in the door.
 
TheMightyEagles said:
Agree with Reep. If you are unable to score a vacation clerkship, you should try to leverage any personal connections you have. If that doesn't work, try to think laterally. People do all kinds of things - even like clerking for firms interstate or overseas (where your English skills might be enough to get you a gig). Whatever helps you to get your foot in the door.
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100% this.

Unless you know someone (and even this means a lot less than it did 10 years ago), the only way you are going to get a grad gig at a big firm is by having vac clerked there (and done well on your clerkship).
 
SonOfReep - I am hearing an increasing amount of talk about good grads shunning the bigger firms for mid-tiers to have some variety etc. Funnily enough one of my colleagues who recently left our business to return to practice (according to he) decided against a role at one of the big firms in favour of something less robotic at a mid-tier. Is this what you've seen happening from your side of the fence?
 
QS said:
SonOfReep - I am hearing an increasing amount of talk about good grads shunning the bigger firms for mid-tiers to have some variety etc. Funnily enough one of my colleagues who recently left our business to return to practice (according to he) decided against a role at one of the big firms in favour of something less robotic at a mid-tier. Is this what you've seen happening from your side of the fence?
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Not really, the only first choice grads we've lost have been to other top tiers, though I guess if you choose Clifford Chance or A&O in Perth you're in reality going "boutique" given how small they are in Perth.

We're losing 3-5 yr PA lawyers to London again, but it's hard to get too cross about it when 80% of us did that at some stage.

Also not sure what's "robotic" about a top tier? PS I wish we could employ robots, Gen Y lawyers are whiny as *.
 
SonOfReep said:
Not really, the only first choice grads we've lost have been to other top tiers, though I guess if you choose Clifford Chance or A&O in Perth you're in reality going "boutique" given how small they are in Perth.

We're losing 3-5 yr PA lawyers to London again, but it's hard to get too cross about it when 80% of us did that at some stage.

Also not sure what's "robotic" about a top tier? PS I wish we could employ robots, Gen Y lawyers are whiny as ****.
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I couldn't understand it either tbh. I've seen plenty of the 'lawyers times' s**t that pumps up the mid-tiers. I think you get a lot of that rhetoric "I don't do anything, I just do the basic stuff, I wanna be Harvey Specter in my first month PA".
TBH I think whilst you might get some of that 'hands-on' prac stuff at a mid-tier or boutique or suburban firm, you won't get the level of complexity that bigger clients require on a regular basis there.

Re: your PS. I also hear that from some pals in the industry, that grads or otherwise are all "I will do whatever it takes, I'm such an obedient little Priddis" but then end up all self-entitled.
 
SonOfReep said:
Not really, the only first choice grads we've lost have been to other top tiers, though I guess if you choose Clifford Chance or A&O in Perth you're in reality going "boutique" given how small they are in Perth.

We're losing 3-5 yr PA lawyers to London again, but it's hard to get too cross about it when 80% of us did that at some stage.

Also not sure what's "robotic" about a top tier? PS I wish we could employ robots, Gen Y lawyers are whiny as ****.
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Reep while you are in a question answering mood, what's your impression of Australian qualified lawyers who spend decent periods of time in the London office of either Magic Circle or US firms? Would you consider them to be more or less employable than say a lawyer of similar PQE level whose spent all his/her time working in Perth top-tier firms?

I've been hearing on the grapevine from a couple of London trained colleagues that they were asked to take PQE discounts when applying for Australian jobs. This is despite the two year training program and College of Law course required to get admitted in the UK, which made me think that Aussie firms may be less interested in lawyers who have worked in London than before (presumably due to over-specialisation and lack of local knowledge).
 
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