Roast The opposition piling on goals

[catempire]

R2 Q2 Sydney 7.0
R3 Q3 Collingwood 9.1
R5 Q4 Hawthorn 4.4 (to 0.4)
R6 Q4 North 5.2
R7 Q3 Freo 4.1 (to 1.2)
R8 Q3 St Kilda 7.4

Houston, we have a problem.

 

[iameviljez]

R2 Q2 Sydney 7.0
R3 Q3 Collingwood 9.1
R5 Q4 Hawthorn 4.4 (to 0.4)
R6 Q4 North 5.2
R7 Q3 Freo 4.1 (to 1.2)
R8 Q3 St Kilda 7.4

Houston, we have a problem.

Part of me thinks it's gravity kicking in a little. We've been so good for so long, we've forgotten what being on the receiving end of this, like a normal team, feels like.

I do also think that our defence is a bit lacking in balance, though. Particularly in terms of being overly dependent on Tom Stewart for rebound.

 

[catempire]

Part of me thinks it's gravity kicking in a little. We've been so good for so long, we've forgotten what being on the receiving end of this, like a normal team, feels like.

I do also think that our defence is a bit lacking in balance, though. Particularly in terms of being overly dependent on Tom Stewart for rebound.

Gut feel is it’s more a midfield issue. I think we lose control from the centre during these periods and can’t find a way to arrest it back. We lose clearances, CPs and UPs during these periods.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

R2 Q2 Sydney 7.0
R3 Q3 Collingwood 9.1
R5 Q4 Hawthorn 4.4 (to 0.4)
R6 Q4 North 5.2
R7 Q3 Freo 4.1 (to 1.2)
R8 Q3 St Kilda 7.4

Houston, we have a problem.

I think it's a reflection of our level of investment in the backline over years.

We've played a game style that has allowed us to draft and trade for other positions. Now we're trying to open up the ball movement they're having to defend with a lot less midfield support. We don't have the 2016-17 backline that will just soak up abuse over and over again.

But also worth mentioning that this isn't specific to us, the shift is just more glaring because of the change in strategy.

Some fans have now got their wish for exciting losses over boring wins, so I'm happy for them

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Did we accidentally recruit David Teague

David Teague

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42

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186cm

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90kg

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3.1

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2.4

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5.0

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2.2

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1.0

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as an assistant coach because that looks like the contagious disease Teagueitis.

 

[iameviljez]

Some fans have now got their wish for exciting losses over boring wins, so I'm happy for them

I don't think that it's a choice between the two alternatives, though. We tried boring football, it didn't quite do the job.

 

[catempire]

Some fans have now got their wish for exciting losses over boring wins, so I'm happy for them

 

[Seeds]

R2 Q2 Sydney 7.0
R3 Q3 Collingwood 9.1
R5 Q4 Hawthorn 4.4 (to 0.4)
R6 Q4 North 5.2
R7 Q3 Freo 4.1 (to 1.2)
R8 Q3 St Kilda 7.4

Houston, we have a problem.

Its been a problem for years.

ever since we decided good tap ruckman werent important nor centre clearances a priority and focused more on wining turnovers Instead.

if you are a great centre clearance side you only need 5 minutes of domination to win a match. Likewise if you are not good at it you can lose a game in 5 mins.

#hitoutsmatter

 

[Footy Smarts]

R2 Q2 Sydney 7.0
R3 Q3 Collingwood 9.1
R5 Q4 Hawthorn 4.4 (to 0.4)
R6 Q4 North 5.2
R7 Q3 Freo 4.1 (to 1.2)
R8 Q3 St Kilda 7.4

Houston, we have a problem.

This has been a major problem for years. It was really only 2020 from memory where we were able to be outplayed and not spanked on the scoreboard. It's hard to watch how easily the ball comes out of midfield against us when we're getting beaten in there.

 

[Seeds]

I think it's a reflection of our level of investment in the backline over years.

We've played a game style that has allowed us to draft and trade for other positions. Now we're trying to open up the ball movement they're having to defend with a lot less midfield support. We don't have the 2016-17 backline that will just soak up abuse over and over again.

But also worth mentioning that this isn't specific to us, the shift is just more glaring because of the change in strategy.

Some fans have now got their wish for exciting losses over boring wins, so I'm happy for them

i think you analysis and conclusion are incorrect.

if the opposition were kicking lots of goals on turnovers you would be correct. But they are not.

we are continually losing the clearances and this is where the opposition is piling on goals from. I.e. what we are struggling with now is exactly the same thing we struggled with last finals series when we played boring footbal. Our midfield just aint good enough when the pressure lifts and its even older and slower now.

We would be even more exciting if we could win the clearances.

 

[catempire]

i think you analysis and conclusion are incorrect.

if the opposition were kicking lots of goals on turnovers you would be correct. But they are not.

we are continually losing the clearances and this is where the opposition is piling on goals from. I.e. what we are struggling with now is exactly the same thing we struggled with last finals series when we played boring footbal. Our midfield just aint good enough when the pressure lifts and its even older and slower now.

We would be even more exciting if we could win the clearances.

I’m more interested in why there are periods where we lose the clearances and CPs. Because across the season we are roughly breaking even in these stats. That means there are periods where we are up too. What goes wrong?

 

[Willo_]

I just think our midfield aren't capable physically and/or ability wise to play at their best for an entire game... And our backline has a few players I'd describe as skittish under pressure... So when oppo sides start to capitalise on a down period we also aren't capable of plugging the dam wall.
I don't think there is anything too in depth too it, and to be completely honest our midfield worries I think only get worse as the year will go on as the older players tire.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I’m more interested in why there are periods where we lose the clearances and CPs. Because across the season we are roughly breaking even in these stats. That means there are periods where we are up too. What goes wrong?

Could be as simple as the inverse. The opposition wonder the same thing when we're on top and make an adjustment.
We could just also be old and unable to sustain 4 quarters.

 

[Partridge]

I just think our midfield aren't capable physically and/or ability wise to play at their best for an entire game... And our backline has a few players I'd describe as skittish under pressure... So when oppo sides start to capitalise on a down period we also aren't capable of plugging the dam wall.
I don't think there is anything too in depth too it, and to be completely honest our midfield worries I think only get worse as the year will go on as the older players tire.

The entire team looked to get tired pretty quickly in the third quarter tonight.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

i think you analysis and conclusion are incorrect.

if the opposition were kicking lots of goals on turnovers you would be correct. But they are not.

we are continually losing the clearances and this is where the opposition is piling on goals from. I.e. what we are struggling with now is exactly the same thing we struggled with last finals series when we played boring footbal. Our midfield just aint good enough when the pressure lifts and its even older and slower now.

We would be even more exciting if we could win the clearances.

Couldn't find any stats on it but last year we were the #1 ranked team for scores conceded from turnover and I'm pretty sure number 2 wasn't close. This year we would not be anywhere near that surely

 

[Micksy]

There was a stat a couple of years back, regarding teams who have had 5 goals in a row kicked against them. There was something like 20 occurrences in X amount of time, but more than half were against Geelong.

I guess this is the counter to the most games decided after the siren stat.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I don't think that it's a choice between the two alternatives, though. We tried boring football, it didn't quite do the job.

It is a bit simplistic yes.

Perhaps it's better to say that in previous years we've had a coherent strategy based on a defined weakness.

This year we have walked away from that and are still searching for a new brand.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Gut feel is it’s more a midfield issue. I think we lose control from the centre during these periods and can’t find a way to arrest it back. We lose clearances, CPs and UPs during these periods.

Yeah there's more to it but I do like to simplify.

I didn't get a chance to watch the saints game but sounds like the coalface was not a great highlight for us

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The entire team looked to get tired pretty quickly in the third quarter tonight.

Which is what you would expect. It's a list in transition

 

[iameviljez]

It is a bit simplistic yes.

Perhaps it's better to say that in previous years we've had a coherent strategy based on a defined weakness.

This year we have walked away from that and are still searching for a new brand.

I think it is a question of: do you play to cover your weaknesses, or to amplify your strengths?

 

[Turbocat]

We have very little tolerance between our best and falling away, and our best is becoming less sustainable. Its like the load is spread thinner, and the shoulders to carry the load are not as strong as they once were. Once a side gets a run on us our confidence is fragile as most have now seen we struggle to turn the other side off.

Its just a sign our best are not the best, and our side has too many that are passed their best , or their best is not good enough. So be it. No shame in it but we just have to realise where we are. If we are brave the next three years will hurt. It will sting and probably reinvigorate. Its not all bad..its just the circle of life in a socialistic comp.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

We don't seem to have a midfield group (that includes ruck) to be able to take that hit and push back.
Selwood still tries but he's 15,000 years old and can't do it himself (10 clearances yesterday), Danger simply isn't the same bloke, he's a support cast/B grader now.
Nobody else has it in them, Duncan and Guthrie can't do it, Parfitt doesn't get enough of the ball to be that player, nor do I think he ever will be, the others are too young (and who knows if they can in time either), and Stanley isn't that kind of ruck.
On top of that we now have a weaker defence that can't hold out opposition for long periods like the old Scarlett/Enright/Taylor teams could.
We just aren't that good anymore.

 

[Lana]

I think it is a physicality problem, In all of the games we played, it felt that there has been places where we've been absolutely dominant, but we can't keep it up all game, which is why slow football (and the shortened quarters of 2020) kept us in the game.

Unfortunately our midfield can't pull momentum back our way once the other side gains momentum. The usual suspects who we had relied on to do it just can't anymore. The current rules makes it even harder.

It is up to Scott to manufacture what he can with out list, despite our deficiencies we aren't too far off, a slight improvement in finishing would have had a huge change in our ladder position.

I feel as if we need to add more players to the inside midfield rotation after half time, after thinking what do we have left to throw in there, Tom Atkins

30

Tom Atkins

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28

Ht

180cm

Wt

86kg

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11.5

3star

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5.0

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6.5

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4.3

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MG

123.5

2star

D

6.5

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.5

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0.8

1star

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1.5

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100.0

2star

D

11.6

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.8

5star

MG

130.0

3star

?

 

[cats_09]

I think it is a physicality problem, In all of the games we played, it felt that there has been places where we've been absolutely dominant, but we can't keep it up all game, which is why slow football (and the shortened quarters of 2020) kept us in the game.

Unfortunately our midfield can't pull momentum back our way once the other side gains momentum. The usual suspects who we had relied on to do it just can't anymore. The current rules makes it even harder.

It is up to Scott to manufacture what he can with out list, despite our deficiencies we aren't too far off, a slight improvement in finishing would have had a huge change in our ladder position.

I feel as if we need to add more players to the inside midfield rotation after half time, after thinking what do we have left to throw in there, Tom Atkins?

Regarding the bold - how many matches this year have we been the dominant team, yet but been able to put the score on the board to reflect our domination?

We showed a free scoring ability against Essendon in round 1 & then again in the last quarter against Collingwood in our come from behind win - but for all our domination in our other matches we really haven't been able to break games open

Last night St Kilda turned their period off domination into a 7 goal 3rd quarter - if we were able to do similar in the second quarter than we may have broken the game open, and rather than hovering around a 20pt lead, we've pushed it out to a 40pt lead and it's a different game

 

[Cursed Cat]

Regarding the bold - how many matches this year have we been the dominant team, yet but been able to put the score on the board to reflect our domination?

We showed a free scoring ability against Essendon in round 1 & then again in the last quarter against Collingwood in our come from behind win - but for all our domination in our other matches we really haven't been able to break games open

Last night St Kilda turned their period off domination into a 7 goal 3rd quarter - if we were able to do similar in the second quarter than we may have broken the game open, and rather than hovering around a 20pt lead, we've pushed it out to a 40pt lead and it's a different game

It feels as though we've experienced these issues before.

The Hawkins-led forward line has ran reasonably smoothly for the most part in recent years, but there was a time a few seasons ago where it seemed we just were not getting bang for our F50 buck; often seemed as though in an attempt to lock the ball into our F50 we were actually clogging up the zone and making it tough to score, despite our dominance.
Scott should know how to remedy the current inefficiency, it is an issue he has encountered before.