Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[Werewolf]

So IF as I suggest we finish in the bottom 3 next year who thinks that is enough for Macca to go or do people honestly think IF that happens it's all part of the development and plan?

I seriously want to know what people's breaking points are coz I'm honestly stunned people still believe in him(which is fully our right)

If we're that bad next year, then he should definitely walk, but even another 7-8 win season like the last two years would leave me unhappy. Maybe I'm overrating the list but we should be knocking on the door of the finals, subject to list changes & injuries obviously.

 

[inyourfacedunk]

Ok I have heard all the excuses why we haven't drafted KPS and I think they are just that, excuses but that's fine that's what u guys think

So what's the EXCUSE for no speed? And poor skilled players?

C'mon guys when do they excuses end ??

Seriously this isn't a Macca issue this is a club issue and we draft the same thing year after year, inside mids that arnt fast but are tough!

And that isn't due to compromised drafts.

Other than Smith (who I think has decent disposal, it just looks horrendous), who was drafted in the last 3 drafts that has poor disposal? And I'm not talking rookies here. Stringer? Bonts? Macrae? Hunter? Hrovat? All their disposal is quite good most of the time.
Poor speed? The only one in that group would be Macrae, but he is very smooth and doesn't need straight line speed with the way he plays.

It's not the new players who have disposal or speed issues.

You call them excuses. I call them reasons.

Here is what you should do because you do seem to know a lot about drafting.

Come up with a mock draft of what the Dogs should get this year.
To make it easier, wait until just after the draft so you have an idea of who went at what picks so if you aren't happy with what was picked you can chose other players that went at around the same picks directly after.

Then at the end of the season, we revisit your picks and see how well your guys are doing compared to what the Dogs picked (if they are different).
One rule though is you need to pick a few KPP's. Because it's just that easy to pick KPP's. And not just one with the first pick. I'm talking another additional one or two further down the order.

You would have the benefit of hindsight knowing what other teams picked and you won't have to worry about pulling the trigger on anyone too early or leaving players too late.

 

[Super Hans]

Sanderson getting sacked was 100% the players. He was a real hard arse, gave them absolutely nothing. I'd be shocked if we had that problem.

 

[Mattdougie]

Other than Smith (who I think has decent disposal, it just looks horrendous), who was drafted in the last 3 drafts that has poor disposal? And I'm not talking rookies here. Stringer? Bonts? Macrae? Hunter? Hrovat? All their disposal is quite good most of the time.
Poor speed? The only one in that group would be Macrae, but he is very smooth and doesn't need straight line speed with the way he plays.

It's not the new players who have disposal or speed issues.

You call them excuses. I call them reasons.

Here is what you should do because you do seem to know a lot about drafting.

Come up with a mock draft of what the Dogs should get this year.
To make it easier, wait until just after the draft so you have an idea of who went at what picks so if you aren't happy with what was picked you can chose other players that went at around the same picks directly after.

Then at the end of the season, we revisit your picks and see how well your guys are doing compared to what the Dogs picked (if they are different).
One rule though is you need to pick a few KPP's. Because it's just that easy to pick KPP's. And not just one with the first pick. I'm talking another additional one or two further down the order.

You would have the benefit of hindsight knowing what other teams picked and you won't have to worry about pulling the trigger on anyone too early or leaving players too late.

Sorry mate I don't know why team your watching but what players do we have that are fast?

Our mid group are mid paced at best
Libba Wallis McCrae Bonts Hrovat Smith Dahl

Probably only blokes on our list that you could call fast are JJ Wood and Jong

We have all the inside players we need so all I'm saying is now target speed mids. Adding more inside mids is pointless imo

 

[grassman75]

Sorry mate I don't know why team your watching but what players do we have that are fast?

Our mid group are mid paced at best
Libba Wallis McCrae Bonts Hrovat Smith Dahl

Probably only blokes on our list that you could call fast are JJ Wood and Jong

We have all the inside players we need so all I'm saying is now target speed mids. Adding more inside mids is pointless imo

So in the draft, we have to take Laverde with our first regardless. Speed, a Size and Skill.

 

[Dav1d]

Sorry mate I don't know why team your watching but what players do we have that are fast?

Our mid group are mid paced at best
Libba Wallis McCrae Bonts Hrovat Smith Dahl

Probably only blokes on our list that you could call fast are JJ Wood and Jong

We have all the inside players we need so all I'm saying is now target speed mids. Adding more inside mids is pointless imo

I sorta agree, would like to see more pace injected into the team

but that is hardly relevant to the coaching

up to JMac more then BMac

any luck we address some of our deficiencies via trade or through the draft, I'd personally prefer through trade because we'd know what we'd be getting, draft is never a sure thing as we all obviously know too well

 

[threenewpadlocks]

We all talk about developing a list and his development, but you need speed, good ball users and tall players.
Which tall players has McCartney drafted?
Which speedy players has he drafted?
Which classy, good ball users has he drafted?
Players like Bonts, Stringer, Macrae are all x-factor players who are going to be ridiculously good. But none of those are a KPP, can burn a man with ball in hand, or can play-make like a basketball point guard off the half back flank, which are the three things that we are and have been desperately in need of.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

I think this is where people have me wrong

I have never had an issue with the plan we are saying we are going on.

I thinks it's great the club have said they have decided to take that path and if implemented correctly could help us achieve the holy grail we all want.

My issues not with the so called rebuild we are on, they are I don't think we are implementing it correctly because a fundamental list rebuild starts with bigs not smalls as the bigs are much harder to find and smalls are in fact a fine a dozen.

Hawks had hodge but then they went and got Franklin and Roughy

Saints Kosi and Rooey

You can have all the inside tough mids you want but that ain't gonna win you a flag

And I'm prepared to bet my balls we will draft more small mids this year again and sprout "best available blah blah"

But as I've said 1000 times no matter what plan you have if yheb. Like running it isn't up to it the plan will fail

So add a plan not being implemented properly and someone running it that doesn't have the skill set to do so and that TO ME means many more years of sh!t


After having the bigs it then becomes a lot easier to entice mids to come to te club.

I know exactly what you're saying. The only thing is that the club has taken an inside out rather than outside in approach and that's fine - it's also the hand your dealt with regards to who's available at your pick. I have no doubt if we'd had pick 1 when Patton or Boyd were in it, we would have taken them, so it's not a hard and fast rule, it's just taking the player who best helps your list at the pick you've got. In that regard I think we've done really well with the picks. There are times when the player you take doesn't work out, but that's the case for every player and every club, not just us. If Franklin had turned out like Tambling, we'd all still be laughing. The fact that those two worked out perfectly was great drafting but also good luck. Kosy turned out just ok, not a star. I think our drafting will prove to be a master stroke in 4 years time, but, yes, we need people to kick the goals and stop them. That will come, there's no screaming hurry, as long as it's done well, we'll all be laughing in 5 years

 

[Pannalstaroz]

the bigger issue is 3rd and 4th round picks. All picks in this range are risks. Why did we pick up fuller given our list structure and not Brown for example.

1st and 2nd round best available, after that needs as the risk on a player not making it is identical. Just remember where we drafted Brian Lake for example

Ben Brown is hugely overrated. He's not our answer. But I agree with the sentiment, just not the example.

 

[Dav1d]

We all talk about developing a list and his development, but you need speed, good ball users and tall players.
Which tall players has McCartney drafted?
Which speedy players has he drafted?
Which classy, good ball users has he drafted?
Players like Bonts, Stringer, Macrae are all x-factor players who are going to be ridiculously good. But none of those are a KPP, can burn a man with ball in hand, or can play-make like a basketball point guard off the half back flank, which are the three things that we are and have been desperately in need of.

The coaches are not in charge of the drafting, I believe they trust the recruitment guys to do their jobs

It has been said before, we had the worst timing ever to bottom out
with the expansion sides coming in, scooping up all the best young talent (some which have played on a handful of games)
now they've had all the ridiculous compromised drafts we have to be on the money with every player we're bringing onto the list

:/

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Also, my view on speed is that it gets you out of trouble, but if you have good skills and structure, speed is less important. I often use this clip as an example

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Also, my view on speed is that it gets you out of trouble, but if you have good skills and structure, speed is less important. I often use this clip as an example

Different sport
But the importance of speed has been exemplified by Port's and North's wins on the weekend. Both were teams that theoretically are worse but won the games because of their hard running and pace.

 

[dogzrule]

Ben Brown is hugely overrated. He's not our answer. But I agree with the sentiment, just not the example.

Young Ben is playing in a prelim we are not

 

[lachy]

Ben Brown is hugely overrated. He's not our answer. But I agree with the sentiment, just not the example.

He is not Norths answer either, but being a big player in a big game only needed 2 quarters to win a final. It's what competent not great KPP's do.
What will fuller ever provide that is not already on our list?

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Different sport
But the importance of speed has been exemplified by Port's and North's wins on the weekend. Both were teams that theoretically are worse but won the games because of their hard running and pace.

Far too simplistic. They won because their structure and ball movement was excellent, their ferocity at the ball was terrific and they were confident. Their speed didn't help Port when they were down by 30 points, no did it help Geelong when they were down by 32 with 12 mins to go

 

[Pannalstaroz]

He is not Norths answer either, but being a big player in a big game only needed 2 quarters to win a final. It's what competent not great KPP's do.
What will fuller ever provide that is not already on our list?

No of course not, obviously. I said I agreed with the sentiment, just that Ben Brown is copping the 3rd defender and doing pretty much bugger all. He's had some ok moments, but no good games IMO. But I appreciate he's not there to dominate.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Young Ben is playing in a prelim we are not

Bugger me I didn't realise he was the reason. You're right, we should have drafted him, then we'd be in a Prelim.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Young Ben is playing in a prelim we are not

So what?

Ryan Griffen is on holidays and Ryan Bastinac is set to play in a preliminary final. Plenty of average players go along for the ride.

 

[Dav1d]

So what?

Ryan Griffen is on holidays and Ryan Bastinac is set to play in a preliminary final. Plenty of average players go along for the ride.

Spanner to

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Spanner to

Don't get me started

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

His vision, not he's vision.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

We all talk about developing a list and his development, but you need speed, good ball users and tall players.
Which tall players has McCartney drafted?
Which speedy players has he drafted?
Which classy, good ball users has he drafted?
Players like Bonts, Stringer, Macrae are all x-factor players who are going to be ridiculously good. But none of those are a KPP, can burn a man with ball in hand, or can play-make like a basketball point guard off the half back flank, which are the three things that we are and have been desperately in need of.

look at GWS

 

[Norm De Guerre]

So what?

Ryan Griffen is on holidays and Ryan Bastinac is set to play in a preliminary final. Plenty of average players go along for the ride.

Reminds me of BigFooty fantasy trades where the value of a player is automatically increased once they become a "Premiership player." Its an idea that is akin to Ben Brown being the panacea for our KPF woes, total bunk.

 

[Dav1d]

Reminds me of BigFooty fantasy trades where the value of a player is automatically increased once they become a "Premiership player." Its an idea that is akin to Ben Brown being the panacea for our KPF woes, total bunk.

Sir, you have my vote for POTY

Always something funny and/or amusing to read

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Sir, you have my vote for POTY

Always something funny and/or amusing to read

Ahem! bewildering/Insightful.