Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Foxman98]

????
Play Scott then.
I’m complaining that west never same chances.

Chops he played 14 games this year he had his chances

 

[mattwa]

West is going to re sign very soon from all reports. He took a major step forward and his demoting should motivate him to take a mid spot next year and slowly get more mid mins to chop out Libba (or replace Dunks)

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Nothing in Dunks' demeanour, body language or onfield performance that tells me he wants out.

The tears in the rooms after the game suggest, to me, that he wants to stay but is being pressured by "others" to take the offer from the highest bidder. Genuinely conflicted.

Hoping he goes with his own preference, which I believe is to stay. That would be Adz's preference, too...

After Granty knocked back Port's offer in '96, Rick Kennedy said he believed Chris would have "died as a footballer", had he left, that big money doesn't mean you're going to play with passion.

Just my hunch on this, but I believe this could also be the case with Dunks.

 

[bobs head soup]

West had 2 really good games and then a half dozen decent ones and a couple poor ones hows that any different to the 3 you've named?

It should also be remembered that West was selected for 14 straight games this year, that is a pretty good run at it for a young fella.

 

[Chops]

Again Chops he played more full games then all mentioned so can you please explain how they got more chances?

You are joking now and can’t see prior the last 7 games


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[Pocket Terrace]

I wish we had Kretiuk, Croft, Dent and Southern down back now.

Would make Opposition forwards collapse in fear today and would make us damn near unstoppable. Defenders that took no nonsense, weren't pushovers and defended as though their lives depended on it. Far cry from Gardner and seeing Cordy trail five metres behind his opponent, time and time and time again. About as intimidating as a wet lettuce leaf.

Unstoppable is a stretch. Tom Lynch would destroy that backline, like most key forwards did back in the day. Matthew Robran FFS.

 

[Foxman98]

It should also be remembered that West was selected for 14 straight games this year, that is a pretty good run at it for a young fella.

He had a good season and some great games but slowed down, nothing wrong with that at all

 

[Foxman98]

You are joking now and can’t see prior the last 7 games


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How many of the 3 you named played 14 straight games and another 6 whilst only kicking 2 goals?

 

[Chops]

Unstoppable is a stretch. Tom Lynch would destroy that backline, like most key forwards did back in the day. Matthew Robran FFS.

True we struggled against tall forwards but Robran was playing r smith and southern was in the stands

 

[wian]

We finally get a forward who can kick 50 goals in a season and we want to send him back

Either Darcy or Naughton must play back.

Naughton would be better as he's more experienced. We have to stop the continuous leaking of goals. So he has to harden up and take one for the team.

 

[Foxman98]

Either Darcy or Naughton must play back.

Naughton would be better as he's more experienced. We have to stop the continuous leaking of goals. So he has to harden up and take one for the team.

Darcy has played 1 and a half games up forward and has kicked 3 goals, Naughton kicked 51 this season. Our defensive issues isn't due to our defensive personal it's due the pressure up forward, Naugjton is also very good at pressuring. Darcy does however need to play down back as he will learn a lot more down there and can then potentially move up forward once he's got his feet on the ground. Either way you could have Prime Matthew Scarlett and Alex Rance at CHB and FB and we will still concede how we do

 

[Foxman98]

The fact that he thinks Scott is comparable overhead because they both avg 3 marks really says enough doesn’t it - it’s really not worth your time

They both average 3 uncontested marks and 1 mark i50 this year. Does West have the better ability and better jump/marking technique you bet he does, is he a better overall player when on you bet he is however this year statistically he is no better than Scott in this area.

 

[wian]

Darcy has played 1 and a half games up forward and has kicked 3 goals, Naughton kicked 51 this season. Our defensive issues isn't due to our defensive personal it's due the pressure up forward, Naugjton is also very good at pressuring. Darcy does however need to play down back as he will learn a lot more down there and can then potentially move up forward once he's got his feet on the ground. Either way you could have Prime Matthew Scarlett and Alex Rance at CHB and FB and we will still concede how we do

I agree it also has to do with gameplan. I personally hate it when out defenders stand 5-10 metres in front of the forwards and play loose. I would address that nonsense straight away. However we need a #1 key defender as Keith and Gardner aren't #1 defenders

I'd personally play the following up the backline:

Keath, Jones, Gardner / Khamis
Dale, Naughton, Williams/ Duryea

 

[Foxman98]

I agree it also has to do with gameplan. I personally hate it when out defenders stand 5-10 metres in front of the forwards and play loose. I would address that nonsense straight away. However we need a #1 key defender as Keith and Gardner aren't #1 defenders

I'd personally play the following up the backline:

Keath, Jones, Gardner / Khamis
Dale, Naughton, Williams/ Duryea

Jones was that #1 and hopefully still is. A mixture of him Darcy and Gards is fine with Ed/Dale/Duryea/Khmais/Cleary going through but again we need to address the way it comes in

 

[TiAn_]

They both average 3 uncontested marks and 1 mark i50 this year. Does West have the better ability and better jump/marking technique you bet he does, is he a better overall player when on you bet he is however this year statistically he is no better than Scott in this area.

Statistically Caleb Daniel is a “better” mark than Aaron Naughton, but we obviously can’t put any weight in that.

Probably better gauge if you want to use stats is West had 6 contested marks this year, Garcia and Scott combined for 3.

 

[wian]

Jones was that #1 and hopefully still is. A mixture of him Darcy and Gards is fine with Ed/Dale/Duryea/Khmais/Cleary going through but again we need to address the way it comes in

True

I hope Bevvo gets it out of his FN thick head that English is not a ruckman. He's a forward and a pinch hitter ruckman! If we get Lobb, he should play 70% as the main ruck and then interchange with Darcy and English to give him a chop out and rest up forward as Lobb can also play forward. If not Lobb, give Sweet more games..

This English "Ruck Fantasy" is a primary reason we leak so many goals as we don't get first use of the ball

 

[Foxman98]

Statistically Caleb Daniel is a “better” mark than Aaron Naughton, but we obviously can’t put any weight in that.

Probably better gauge if you want to use stats is West had 6 contested marks this year, Garcia and Scott combined for 3.

6 in 14 games means it isn't a strong point for him either which was the point.

 

[Bald]

Don't know if this has posted anywhere, but interesting Steve called it a boys club, you would think he had a fair idea what he was talking about.

Reads to me that he’s said boys club because he’s referring to the mens team. Happy to be corrected though.

 

[Northernsoul74]

True

I hope Bevvo gets it out of his FN thick head that English is not a ruckman. He's a forward and a pinch hitter ruckman! If we get Lobb, he should play 70% ruck and interchange with Darcy and English to give him a chop out and rest up forward as Lobb can play forward. If not Lobb, give Sweet more games..

I’m not sure there’s much evidence that English is an out and out forward. If you see it that way then I don’t think Lobb is a great partner. Lobb is a very reluctant ruck and not particularly good at it. English is a better ruck than Lobb.

 

[wian]

E

I’m not sure there’s much evidence that English is an out and out forward. If you see it that way then I don’t think Lobb is a great partner. Lobb is a very reluctant ruck and not particularly good at it. English is a better ruck than Lobb.

English isn't a ruck and never will be.

But he has a unique skillset.

So either use him up forward or trade him for something we need.

 

[Foxman98]

I’m not sure there’s much evidence that English is an out and out forward. If you see it that way then I don’t think Lobb is a great partner. Lobb is a very reluctant ruck and not particularly good at it. English is a better ruck than Lobb.

Funnily enough English isn't that good as an out and out forward. If you look at his games at the end of last year when he was playing predominately there he wasn't very good. He actually gets most of his goals and marks inside 50 pushing forward after a stoppage and out working his ruck opponent

 

[Libbaaaa]

True

I hope Bevvo gets it out of his FN thick head that English is not a ruckman. He's a forward and a pinch hitter ruckman! If we get Lobb, he should play 70% as the main ruck and then interchange with Darcy and English to give him a chop out and rest up forward as Lobb can also play forward. If not Lobb, give Sweet more games..

This English "Ruck Fantasy" is a primary reason we leak so many goals as we don't get first use of the ball

No chance Lobb is going to play as the #1 ruck, he'll move into the middle when Tim rests on the bench. If Tim is out injured then he'll take step into the #1 temporarily.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Any need for you to play the man instead of the argument?
I’ve heard very little of people complaining Dunkley should play fwd.if so it’s obviously wrong. we have a stacked midfield who was he taking out, Libba?



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Just a slight joke Chops. Apologies if offended.

I think you mean Dunkley playing midfield don’t you? No ones pushed for him to play fwd, that’s not what was being discussed so I thought.

 

[Chalky White]

Unstoppable is a stretch. Tom Lynch would destroy that backline, like most key forwards did back in the day. Matthew Robran FFS.

Matthew Robran was on Rohan Smith that day in 98

 

[Mahama]

(TLDR: our forward structure against Freo was designed entirely to protect our defence. Just a few key personnel changes in our backline next year would increase trust in our defence to hold up under pressure, and give us more freedom to implement a forward structure designed to kick goals.)


It was interesting hearing Bevo mention multiple times in his presser after the final that we planned to avoid kicking inside 50 'across the face of goal', and the players went away from that in the second half. The idea no doubt being that it's much easier to defend a turnover near the boundary line than in the middle of the ground. But setting your attacking structure purely to protect your backline is an extremely defensive mindset that might go some way to explaining our forward line's struggles on Saturday (and perhaps at other times during the season?).

If you go back and watch the first quarter, every single one of our scores did indeed come from an entry from one of the flanks, and aside from a couple of times where we were close enough to kick it to the top of the square, the kicks went to the pockets. It makes sense – the possible outcomes to a deep kick to the pocket are:

1. We take a mark or get the crumbs and get a shot at goal - happened lots in the first quarter.
2. We force a stoppage and use our superiority there to manufacture a shot.
3. Freo get the ball back deep in their defensive pocket and we can press up and defend a much smaller section of the ground and trap it there.

There are obviously problems too though. First, any shots you get from a pocket are going to be tougher – probably explains some of our poor accuracy. Second, there's not much room for effective leading or any kind of forward structure when the tactic is to bomb the ball to a pocket. Not surprised at all JUH in particular struggled given that.

And you can't really blame the coaches for implementing this strategy when our backline has consistently been so vulnerable when defending on the turnover. Perfect example: Freo's first goal came when Rourke gave away a free on our forward 50 line, close to the centre - Freo rebounded quickly, found Walters and Richards in a 1v1 where Richards panicked and gave away a free.

More broadly, in almost all of our highest scoring games this year, the opposition have also kicked big scores. We've been incapable all year of playing attacking footy without leaking goals badly. All of our backline players have had issues defending 1v1 at different times, and none are anywhere near the elite interceptors that other clubs have.

Which is all to say, I wonder if it might only take 2 or 3 personnel changes in defence for us to come out a very different team in 2023. We need a number 1 key defender we can rely on when exposed against the best key forwards - Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

was the best 1v1 defender in the league the last 2 seasons he played. We need an elite interceptor - or Keath playing 3rd tall at his best form and fitness. And we need a small defender who we can trust to defend against the Walters and Camerons and Boltons of the league - a Duryea with less injuries.

It's quite the shopping list, but if we get that in place we can actually trust our defence to withstand a lot more pressure, and can therefore start thinking about an attacking structure that isn't designed purely to protect our backline.