UFA - Colin Sylvia

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Re: Colin Sylvia.....

This Colin Sylvia situation really sums up one of the big things that is wrong with Melbourne at the moment.

At other clubs, if a player consistently doesn't perform, no matter how talented he is, he gets the chop. At Melbourne we rarely do that, so when it does happen like this week we suddenly think there is epic disharmony with the player and that he'll be traded.

Sylvia's fine and hopefully this will be the kick up the bum that he needs.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

melbournemartin said:
This Colin Sylvia situation really sums up one of the big things that is wrong with Melbourne at the moment.

At other clubs, if a player consistently doesn't perform, no matter how talented he is, he gets the chop. At Melbourne we rarely do that, so when it does happen like this week we suddenly think there is epic disharmony with the player and that he'll be traded.

Sylvia's fine and hopefully this will be the kick up the bum that he needs.
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I think it's because he was far from your worst player last week. For a forward, he got 14 touches and 8 tackles. He wasn't anywhere close to "great", but when you have someone like Brad Green getting 12 touches and 2 tackles but keeping his spot (captain or not), Sylvia being used as a scapegoat will get people talking.

Plus he was one of your best players against Port and for the first half of the year he was on fire. It's not like he's had a "down" year.
 

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Re: Colin Sylvia.....

High Flying Flag said:
A week later, Sting suggested Shaun McKernan instead if White :eek:
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Definately, not just because he's younger, can take a contested mark and he's a victorian. It's because Sydney have used a first round pick for Tom Mitchell.

Now that's embarrassing, I think the same people that are after me should quit while they are a mile behind.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Being a mate of his I'm miffed he has been dropped as is he, has been offered a 4 year deal and loves the dees, the club knows he has been playing on jabs the last month so it's strange they send him back to the VFL to find some form when a couple weeks off would be better. Not a nice way for the new coach to start with one of his top few players
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

JZTIME! said:
Being a mate of his I'm miffed he has been dropped as is he, has been offered a 4 year deal and loves the dees, the club knows he has been playing on jabs the last month so it's strange they send him back to the VFL to find some form when a couple weeks off would be better. Not a nice way for the new coach to start with one of his top few players
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Maybe so. Thing is with Colin is that I think he could have the makings of a great captain/leader if only he could show his "love" for the Dees on field more often. I personally don't know him but I think he struggles to get himself going if he's having a bad day, the confidence drops. If he can find that something that can fire himself up when he's down he could easily go from being a good player to real great of the club and even lead this club to something awesome.

EDIT: Him and Beamer Moloney are two guys I'd love to see get into an opponent during a game and assert themselves. Show a bit of anger and a bit of mongrel about themselves.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

JZTIME! said:
Being a mate of his I'm miffed he has been dropped as is he, has been offered a 4 year deal and loves the dees, the club knows he has been playing on jabs the last month so it's strange they send him back to the VFL to find some form when a couple weeks off would be better. Not a nice way for the new coach to start with one of his top few players
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Why's he playing on jabs jztime? Didn't know he was injured.

I think him and Jurrah being dropped is a general "all players are on notice regardless of reputation" message.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Demon 16 said:
Good question - if someone offered us pick 7, I think we would say no.

If he told us he wanted to leave and someone offered us pick 7, I think we would say yes.

Just my opinion though.
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Pick 7 I'd take it either way, a could be anything player, been cousins like made others around him look like kids.
Then goes missing does nothing very disapointing, we drafted well that year him an Brock we have seen brillance from both but Brock shone bright early an syvia has showed flashes of brilliance. But not often or consitantly enough so I'd take pick 7 for sure. Wasn't that heppel last year?
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Logger said:
Why's he playing on jabs jztime? Didn't know he was injured.

I think him and Jurrah being dropped is a general "all players are on notice regardless of reputation" message.
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Hurt his knee the game after collingwood, not major but may require a clean Up, contrary to whAt papers say has been settled with his new gf and out of trouble for a couple of seasons, his name has been thrown into a couple of stories where he had no input I was there so scrutiny is unwarranted at times. We can't underestimate the effect of the players not trusting the heirachy after j mac being moved on
 
JZTIME! said:
Hurt his knee the game after collingwood, not major but may require a clean Up, contrary to whAt papers say has been settled with his new gf and out of trouble for a couple of seasons, his name has been thrown into a couple of stories where he had no input I was there so scrutiny is unwarranted at times. We can't underestimate the effect of the players not trusting the heirachy after j mac being moved on
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I still think he is a big chance to be running around at the G this afternoon.... Could be way off the mark though!
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Just trying to determine value. Would Knights and our 2nd Pick have any worth to you guys?
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

If he wants to stay, there shouldn't even be a question of him leaving.

Required player.
 

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Re: Colin Sylvia.....

PyroCrow said:
Just trying to determine value. Would Knights and our 2nd Pick have any worth to you guys?
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Zero, try one of your better players (not best") or add your first rounder

edit to be a bit more productive......

Players of value to me would be Walker and Mckernan....but i wouldnt straight swap for them, i do rate Sylvia more than many on these boards though it seems :)

Maybe plus your 2nd round pick for Sylvia and our 3rd?
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Dangerfield, Walker, Tippett or Sloane is the only way this deal would get done if the Crows wanted Col IMO.

Something like :

Walker & and an early second rounder.

Sloane & and an early second rounder.

Dangerfield and your third rounder for Sylvia and our second rounder.

Tippett (is exactly what we need, his beefy contract may put us off though) and your 2nd rounder for Sylvia and Jared Rivers (he's SA and a tall back you may need after the Davis and Bock exits)

Scott Thompson would be off limits im assuming after his outstanding season.

The crows list is really of very little interest to Melbourne apart from the above four. McKernan seems to have stalled in his progress. We are lacking height up forward and Tippett would fill a huge need.

Just out of interest what is Tippett on? Isnt it around 600k per year?

Sylvia is right now our most talented player, easily. He is still only in his mid 20's as well. Has all the tools to become elite (similar skill set to Mark Ricciuto). Knights and your second rounder simply wouldnt be enough.

Tippett would interest Melbourne the most, especially if we could negotiate a part contract payment on Adelaide's behalf.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Mentor said:
Zero, try one of your better players (not best") or add your first rounder

edit to be a bit more productive......

Players of value to me would be Walker and Mckernan....but i wouldnt straight swap for them, i do rate Sylvia more than many on these boards though it seems :)

Maybe plus your 2nd round pick for Sylvia and our 3rd?
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AFC really rates Mckernan and views him as a big part of our future but he would be just the sort of player that you need ATM. He could be the power forward that your "up and coming" team needs. Note that like Sylvia, he hasn't reached his full potential (which is relatively high). Players of Mckernan's size and skill are relatively rare in the AFL and big men tend to take longer to develop. Unfortunately for you guys, one of the golden rules when trading is that you try to avoid going big for small so any Mckernan deal would probably mean that you would have to give up more than you would like (the same goes for any other Sylvia big man deal). How confident are you that Sylvia will reach his potential with you guys and won't just suck up cap space on you roster? If you guys aren't confident that he will resign (I'm not sure how you feel about this) then you should try and make the best deal possible to bring a big man, but you might need to be prepared to lose out in the short term to reap the long term benefits. I think that Mckernan's value will be inflated in a market that will be short of trades (especially big men) this year so AFC would probably demand Sylvia + 2nd Round for Mckernan + 3rd Round. I personally don't feel that is a fair deal for you guys but that is the sort of rate he will be going at (if we trade him). Without getting overly emotional and ripping my head off how reasonable is that deal? BTW if you were looking at trading the Sylvia, who else around the league would you be interested in?
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Rudeurrection said:
Dangerfield, Walker, Tippett or Sloane is the only way this deal would get done if the Crows wanted Col IMO.

Something like :

Walker & and an early second rounder.

Sloane & and an early second rounder.

Dangerfield and your third rounder for Sylvia and our second rounder.

Tippett (is exactly what we need, his beefy contract may put us off though) and your 2nd rounder for Sylvia and Jared Rivers (he's SA and a tall back you may need after the Davis and Bock exits)

Scott Thompson would be off limits im assuming after his outstanding season.

The crows list is really of very little interest to Melbourne apart from the above four. McKernan seems to have stalled in his progress. We are lacking height up forward and Tippett would fill a huge need.

Just out of interest what is Tippett on? Isnt it around 600k per year?

Sylvia is right now our most talented player, easily. He is still only in his mid 20's as well. Has all the tools to become elite (similar skill set to Mark Ricciuto). Knights and your second rounder simply wouldnt be enough.

Tippett would interest Melbourne the most, especially if we could negotiate a part contract payment on Adelaide's behalf.
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Most of what you have listed are untouchables from our point of view. Walker wouldn't help you anyway ATM (not really known as being a good contested mark).

Tippett is on about 600k a year yes. He is being paid for what he could be rather than what he is worth ATM (not really the best policy).

BTW how good is Rivers (though I doubt you'll be objective)? It's just that I don't see many Melbourne games so I haven't really seen him play much. Probably wouldn't be interested in trading for him at this stage I'm just curious.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Rudeurrection said:
Tippett (is exactly what we need, his beefy contract may put us off though) and your 2nd rounder for Sylvia and Jared Rivers (he's SA and a tall back you may need after the Davis and Bock exits).

Just out of interest what is Tippett on? Isnt it around 600k per year?

Tippett would interest Melbourne the most, especially if we could negotiate a part contract payment on Adelaide's behalf.
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Interesting musings. I'm not 100% convinced on Tippet, I can't really put my finger on it, but he appears to lack a real competitive spirit and we have too many players with that flaw already.

Having said that, the player that he has the potential to be would be a great addition to our list, and he is still young.

Would we do Tippet + 3rd rounder for Sylvia and Rivers with Adelaide paying a percentage of Tippets salary?
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

stretcharmstrong said:
Interesting musings. I'm not 100% convinced on Tippet, I can't really put my finger on it, but he appears to lack a real competitive spirit and we have too many players with that flaw already.

Having said that, the player that he has the potential to be would be a great addition to our list, and he is still young.

Would we do Tippet + 3rd rounder for Sylvia and Rivers with Adelaide paying a percentage of Tippets salary?
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LOL:D, no offense but that trade gave me a chuckle.

Tippett is an effort player with a very high work-rate (at least compared to the rest on our team) but is hampered by poor delivery into the forward line (why I suggesting Sylvia). Has the ability to be very special and is improving every year, now is probably the best marking forward in the AFL with vastly improved set shot accuracy. While Sylvia has the ability to be elite he hasn't shown nearly as much over his career and has struggled with injuries over his career (not to mention is older and smaller). As said in the post above I don't know enough about Rivers to objectively ascertain his value in a trade situation.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

PyroCrow said:
LOL:D, no offense but that trade gave me a chuckle.

Tippett is an effort player with a very high work-rate (at least compared to the rest on our team) but is hampered by poor delivery into the forward line (why I suggesting Sylvia). Has the ability to be very special and is improving every year, now is probably the best marking forward in the AFL with vastly improved set shot accuracy. While Sylvia has the ability to be elite he hasn't shown nearly as much over his career and has struggled with injuries over his career (not to mention is older and smaller). As said in the post above I don't know enough about Rivers to objectively ascertain his value in a trade situation.
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Fair enough. I don't see enough Adelaide games to speak confidently, but it seems to me that Tippet has a habit of drifting in and out of games, a mental application issue. But if you say that is not the case I'll take your word for it.

As for being the (current) best marking forward in the AFL, Cloke, Buddy, Pods, JBrown and numerous others would have to be ahead of him still - but I understand how easy it is to get carried away with your own players!

On Rivers, he's not that good. Simple as that. He's not a s**t player, but just a bit of an awkward size and doesn't have a great skill set. Reads the play very well and plays best as 3rd man up. Any trade that involved him would likely have some element of the MFC pulling the wool over the eyes of the club that we sent him to (as in the TJ and McClean trades).
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

stretcharmstrong said:
Fair enough. I don't see enough Adelaide games to speak confidently, but it seems to me that Tippet has a habit of drifting in and out of games, a mental application issue. But if you say that is not the case I'll take your word for it.

As for being the (current) best marking forward in the AFL, Cloke, Buddy, Pods, JBrown and numerous others would have to be ahead of him still - but I understand how easy it is to get carried away with your own players!

On Rivers, he's not that good. Simple as that. He's not a s**t player, but just a bit of an awkward size and doesn't have a great skill set. Reads the play very well and plays best as 3rd man up. Any trade that involved him would likely have some element of the MFC pulling the wool over the eyes of the club that we sent him to (as in the TJ and McClean trades).
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Tippett is a better contested mark than all of those players bar Brown (I must pay my respect to a legend). All the others have their jobs made considerably easier by having exceptional midfield delivery, Tippett doesn't have this luxury. I'm not over-hyping the guy, he talent speaks for itself, its just incredibly hard to get near the ball when you are the only target in the forward line with 3 players hanging off you. When Mel get a good power forward you will understand what I'm talking about (no offense).

At least you seem fairly honest about Rivers which is nice to see, kudos. Doesn't sound like the sort of player we would be interested in.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

PyroCrow said:
Tippett is a better contested mark than all of those players bar Brown (I must pay my respect to a legend). All the others have their jobs made considerably easier by having exceptional midfield delivery, Tippett doesn't have this luxury. I'm not over-hyping the guy, he talent speaks for itself, its just incredibly hard to get near the ball when you are the only target in the forward line with 3 players hanging off you. When Mel get a good power forward you will understand what I'm talking about (no offense).

At least you seem fairly honest about Rivers which is nice to see, kudos. Doesn't sound like the sort of player we would be interested in.
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I know he plays in a brilliant team- but it's hard to argue that anyone is a better contested mark at the moment than Travis Cloke when he's on pace to set a league record for them...
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Demon 86 said:
I know he plays in a brilliant team- but it's hard to argue that anyone is a better contested mark at the moment than Travis Cloke when he's on pace to set a league record for them...
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Put him in Port and see how he goes. Highly over-rated player. Its significantly easier to look good when your in a good team with an exceptional midfield.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

Contested marking is definitely something that doesn't rely on a team being good. Cloke is the best in the comp.
 
Re: Colin Sylvia.....

ThePuppetMaster said:
Contested marking is definitely something that doesn't rely on a team being good. Cloke is the best in the comp.
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Cloke's perceived status as the best contested mark has been inflated. The guy is a good forward with decent marking skills but his ability has been grossly exaggerated by the Victorian media. Its the mainly result of good F50 opportunities which are weighted exceptionally well and isn't hurt by having Leigh Brown as another decent target to draw pressure away. Brown and Tippett don't have these benefits in their respective teams. If you put either of those two players instead of Cloke into Collingwood they become even better (if that is possible). Unfortunately there is no way to resolve this argument as it is subjective so well just agree to disagree shall we?
 
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