WA Footy

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Forward Press said:
West Coast finished 14th and Fremantle finished 16th in a 16 team competition in 2001.
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The second derby that year was probably the most depressing match I've ever watched.* The sheer awfulness and lifelessness of it.



*And as a Freo fan there's a lot of competition for that title.
 
bzparkes said:
That's great.

None of those blokes are responsible for the development system of WA footy though.

Nor does it have anything with both clubs being unable to spend more than other clubs on things under the soft cap.

Perhaps the AFL, being the guardian of the game and all, should invest in development pathways for WA?

Too busy working out the exec bonuses, I reckon.
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All clubs have suffered cutbacks to the Soft Cap and work within the same budget. It's not an WA club issue alone.

The fat cats at your club, like your board and esp Trevor Nesbitt are mostly to blame for the current state of your club.
 
Elmer_Judd said:
All clubs have suffered cutbacks to the Soft Cap and work within the same budget. It's not an WA club issue alone.

The fat cats at your club, like your board and esp Trevor Nesbitt are mostly to blame for the current state of your club.
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Garbage. We had to cut back a insane amount mainly because we were not allowed to negotiate deals down once this poor campaigners cap came in. It didnt impact everyone the same in any way

In all reality, Eagles issues is our terrible training facilities. Paint looks nice, but the ground is shocking. WCE are not alone in it either. The WAFL team who train there also have the same injury mess too as does our WAFL B team. If you got 3 teams training at the same place and all 3 teams regularly have 40% of their team injured with soft tissue injuries, its probably time to think their is something into it

Unfortunately the last part is bang on. Terrible mistakes from Dickbitt and the inability to correct them because he doesnt want to trouble his fragile ego is the reason the fall has been this dramatic
 

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A few issues I think. If you're looking at why the AFL sides are poor:

1. Eagles huge injury list, exacerbated by poor list management which has left aging list that requires a full rebuild. Ended up playing most of their games with a WAFL team (if that).

2. Freo extremely young and inexperienced side, changes in key positions mean most haven't played 20 games together. Also means we get spanked physically by most teams. List is good though so time and player development will fix most of their issues.

3. The soft cap has impacted interstate sides, particularly WA, more than Vic sides in terms of retention and recruitment of quality assistant coaches. Before the soft cap, the Eagles especially could use their financial strength to bridge this gap, though Freo also have strong financials which would allow them to outspend most other teams in this regard.

4. Losing the on-field leadership and quality of players like JJK and Mundy without adequate replacements has hurt.

That's it really. It's cyclical so I'd expect them to be punching their weight again soon enough, especially if the soft cap is removed.


On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
WillHayward said:
Usually their under 18s are more competitive as well.
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WillHayward said:
Not true.

It's the worst year ever for the WA teams in terms of combined ladder positions.
That's a fact

I'm genuinely interest if people in WA have any theories about this.
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Blame it on the academies.non level playing field.W.A. players don't mind going east whereas Vic metro boys are mummies boys and sooks don't want to come west.Big melbourne clubs get all the good talent from Gold Cast and GWS year after year..
 
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chaddy22 said:
Blame it on the academies.non level playing field.W.A. players don't mind going eastwhereas Vic metro boys are mummies boys and sooks don't want to come west.Big melbourne clubs get all the good talent from Gold Cast and GWS year after year..
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I dont know if he actually said anything or whether it was a media beat up so not having a go at harley Reid per se.

But I do get annoyed when/if Vic kids say they don't want to go to WA.

I mean how did they even know they won't like it?

They don't know what they don't know.

It's clearly people around them like parents who create this attitude. I reckon it's just dickhead selfish and small minded parents to blame.
Parents put this thought in the kids head.

Kid might go and love it.

And that's what worries the dickhead parent.
 
WillHayward said:
I dont know if he actually said anything or whether it was a media beat up so not having a go at harley Reid per se.

But I do get annoyed when/if Vic kids say they don't want to go to WA.

I mean how did they even know they won't like it?

They don't know what they don't know.

It's clearly people around them like parents who create this attitude. I reckon it's just dickhead selfish and small minded parents to blame.
Parents put this thought in the kids head.

Kid might go and love it.

And that's what worries the dickhead parent.
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Kane cornes and Vic media seem to be pushing the line.It would be hard to believe he is not influenced by their anti West Coast attitude.
 
WillHayward said:
I dont know if he actually said anything or whether it was a media beat up so not having a go at harley Reid per se.

But I do get annoyed when/if Vic kids say they don't want to go to WA.

I mean how did they even know they won't like it?

They don't know what they don't know.

It's clearly people around them like parents who create this attitude. I reckon it's just dickhead selfish and small minded parents to blame.
Parents put this thought in the kids head.

Kid might go and love it.

And that's what worries the dickhead parent.
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Name me the last Vic Kid who has actually publicly said he doesn't want to go to WA ?

The likes of Archie Perkins and Bailey Smlth just said they wanted to stay in Victoria, didn't say anything about not wanting to go home to WA.

In my opinion it's the Northern State expansion clubs, GWS and Suns that have a far bigger problem with wayward/reluctant draftees than the WA Clubs.

Gross list mismanagement (in Eagles case holding on to past 2018 flag champions for too long and for Freo, shocking trade decisions) is the major reason why they are in the pickle they are now.

Nothing more than rolling up their sleeves and do some hard work for a few years couldn't hurt (or in Freo's case maybe a new coach and list manager)

They definitely don't need any handouts or more Academy Access (the draft is compromised as it is)
 
Elmer_Judd said:
Name me the last Vic Kid who has actually publicly said he doesn't want to go to WA ?

The likes of Archie Perkins and Bailey Smlth just said they wanted to stay in Victoria, didn't say anything about not wanting to go home to WA.

In my opinion it's the Northern State expansion clubs, GWS and Suns that have a far bigger problem with wayward/reluctant draftees than the WA Clubs.

Gross list mismanagement (in Eagles case holding on to past 2018 flag champions for too long and for Freo, shocking trade decisions) is the major reason why they are in the pickle they are now.

Nothing more than rolling up their sleeves and do some hard work for a few years couldn't hurt (or in Freo's case maybe a new coach and list manager)

They definitely don't need any handouts or more Academy Access (the draft is compromised as it is)
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Add wardlaw and sheezel.It's just code for we don't want to go interstate.Brisbane were smart they drafted a couple of vic country boys who were mates and boarding in melbourne.Vic metro boys are getting a reputation of mummies boys.
 

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Elmer_Judd said:
Name me the last Vic Kid who has actually publicly said he doesn't want to go to WA ?

The likes of Archie Perkins and Bailey Smlth just said they wanted to stay in Victoria, didn't say anything about not wanting to go home to WA.

In my opinion it's the Northern State expansion clubs, GWS and Suns that have a far bigger problem with wayward/reluctant draftees than the WA Clubs.

Gross list mismanagement (in Eagles case holding on to past 2018 flag champions for too long and for Freo, shocking trade decisions) is the major reason why they are in the pickle they are now.

Nothing more than rolling up their sleeves and do some hard work for a few years couldn't hurt (or in Freo's case maybe a new coach and list manager)

They definitely don't need any handouts or more Academy Access (the draft is compromised as it is)
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I think our trading has improved from downright atrocious to pretty awful. I think we've got a few wins and a few losses here and there. I mean we've made an incredibly competitive team that made finals based on Picks 20-40 in the draft (then turned awful due to experienced players in the midfield going (ie. Acres, Mundy and Brodie laying an egg)

I wouldn't be surprised if we target an experienced midfielder in the trade period. We have a key forward - we just don't have the service to get it to them.
 
JoseMourinho said:
I think our trading has improved from downright atrocious to pretty awful. I think we've got a few wins and a few losses here and there. I mean we've made an incredibly competitive team that made finals based on Picks 20-40 in the draft (then turned awful due to experienced players in the midfield going (ie. Acres, Mundy and Brodie laying an egg)

I wouldn't be surprised if we target an experienced midfielder in the trade period. We have a key forward - we just don't have the service to get it to them.
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It's easy (and fun too) to ridicule Freo's KPF stocks but it's actually okay in my opinion.

Taberner is getting old but there are far more crabs in the competition and he can do the job for the next year or two. Amiss looks a genuine talent but still young and raw - however will be in Freo's window which I suspect you guys are confident of opening up from next year (with maybe a new coach or gameplan). The real hurt is from finishing bottom 4/5 and not having a top draft pick this year which could be used to nab a potential superstar or traded away for that experienced star midfielder.
 
I was referring to Amiss, not tabs. Tabs has a lack of 2nd effort when we need it most.

Darcy is an absolute gun at this and has done so much better to make the effort but not to bulldoze the player when he goes to ground and give a free kick away.
 
WillHayward said:
Well you are allowed.

Simmo
NicNat
Gaff
McGovern
Yeo
Kelly
Sheed


Are all living proof of that.

None of them are crying poor.

Just counting the $$$.
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Well I can go on both the eagles and dockers sides problems ...

Eagles 1st...

You look at the Eagles list. Most people would agree with me that the team is Ageing list that is also beaten up too.

Yes there are some eagles players on the list that are aged 30 years and over that are injury prone. Yet... this is 2022 and 2023. No one complained about it in 2019-21 when the eagle were contending for finals and making finals.

But then 2022 came around. Eagles can Blame injuries all they want. Even dockers fans saw it coming as they saw the dockers go 0-10 and get 4 wins and 18 losses in 2016 when that side was ageing and crippled with injury to older players too.

But then you mentioned those blokes on your posts about Nic Nat, Gaff, Yeo, Kelly, Sheed, Hurn etc.


I look at the Eagles management in the last 2-4 years.

This is a reason Why the Salary Floor should go down to 90 percent or even down to 92.5 percent.

most people bemoan the restrictions on the coaching and footy departments, especially in the pandemic era of 2020-21.

Salary Cap for the playing squad is $13,000,000. 95% of 13 mil is $12,350,000. Thats $650,000 to move around. Thats not a lot.

If it went down to 90%. the salary floor is $11,700,000. That means $1.3 million to wriggle around. To either free up to get a massive free agent or 2 or help retain some younger players.

People will talk about the eagles Ageing and injured squad. But you are not gonna get rid of the old vets in one off season. You aint gonna get rid of 6-8 blokes aged 30 years or over in one hit. It will be done over 2-4 seasons.


As an example. Dockers had an ageing list in 2016... Those old blokes were gone over a 2-4 year period...

Pavlich Retired in 2016.

Zac Dawson, Garrick Ibbotson and Jono Griffin were gone in 2017. Ibbotsons retirement shocked me as he was only 29 while dawson and griffin were both 31.

Danyle Pearce, Lee Spurr and Michael Johnson reitred in 2018. All 3 were 32 years old.

Sandilands and Ballantyne retired in 2019. Ballantyne was 31, Sandilands was 36 or 37 years old.
 
Now for the dockers.....

The dockers have Problems on the opposite of the eagles.


Everyone is Gonna talk about the dockers trading and drafting in the off season.

In 2022, the dockers had 15 wins, 1 draw and 6 losses. got 5th on the ladder. Won a final for the 1st time since 2015. I savoured that final, after tolerating the dockers playing no finals from 2016-21.


If you want to know how sigificant that 2022 home elim finals win was. Only 2 blokes in 2015 Qualifying final vs the swans, our last finals win under Ross Lyon, hanged around until 2022 for that elim final win. That was a 31 year old michael walters and a 37 year old David mundy. That showed you how ageing the dockers squad were under ross lyon in 2015.

Of the 23 dockers blokes that played in that 2022 elim final, 19 of them had their 1st finals win in their careers. 7 of them blokes were aged 21 or younger.

Hell, if you wanna even go further back. Before Ross Lyons last dockers finals win in 2015, our last finals win before Ross Lyon was in 2010 under Mark Harvey. Fyfe, Walters and Mundy played in that 2010 elim finals win vs the hawks.


So we have the 2022 drafting and trading... About those players that left.

David mundy retires at 37 years old. That had to happen.

People will talk about Rory Lobb... He was contracted until 2023. We could of kept him for another year. Dockers caved in. Dockers got a pick or 2. Lobb got a big 3 year deal at the dogs. Had Lobb stayed for one more year, no AFL club would of handed him a big 3 year deal for a bloke that turns 30 in feburary in 2023 or 31 in 2024. So we traded in heavily for a 21 year old Luke Jackson to fill lobbs spot.

Acres was a solid outside mid. Good on him for going to carlton. was he solid at freo? Yeah he was, but he isnt gonna win a brownlow medal or get AA honours. Could of kept him for a couple of more years.

Meek was a solid back up ruckman at Freo. He was still contracted. he was part of the Jaeger O meara trade. I personally would of kept JOM for one more year. He would be playing over all our other rucks if Sean Darcy is injured.

Darcy Tucker I would of Kept for another season. He would of been a free agent in 2023. He didnt play in freos 2 finals in 2022.

Griffen Logue... well thats on the Freo Board. He wanted a 2 year deal at the end of 2021. We should of done that to keep him until 2024 as he would of been a free agent.




Again.... Fremantles Problems are the opposite of west coast....

West coast has been crippled with injuries all season. Dockers cant even blame injuries, they acutally cant. Yeah Darcy and Fyfe are having season ending injuries with 4-6 games to go. Yeah some fringe players like Martin Frederick and Karl Worner, Nathan O driscoll and Heath Chapman have been injured. But they are young and fringe/rotation players that are replaceable.

Eagles have an Ageing squad. Dockers have a young list.

We Dockers have been saying the dockers have got a Young list since either the end of 2017 or 2018.

Dont get me wrong, that 2016 season was hard. I tolerated the 2017-9 seasons as we were winning 7-9 games a season and not going 0-10.

But when you spend 5 at least 5 seasons in a row not playing finals, you should some how slowly improve your list. Those 18-21 year olds you get in the 1st year od a rebuild are 23-26 year olds 5 years later.

I dont think Alex Pearce was the right choice as captain. Brayshaw should of got it in my opinion.

Another problem is the Coach Justin Longmuir. Even after a heavy defeat, he doesnt axe the squad, he only does 2-3 changes. Some players have gone backwards this season. That worries me a lot. We traded out 4 or 5 best 23 players and hoped for organic growth from our 2017-2020 draftees.


Saying that, the Luke Jackson trade is good for the demons. Dockers wont have a 1st rounder. Demons will get pick 4 this season sadly. So that sucks.

Dockers have Norths 2nd and 3rd this year though.

The sad thing is I tolerated a 6 year rebuild from 2016-21. Made finals in 2022. I seriously though this was gonna be a start of a finals run just like 2012-15 under Ross Lyon.

But as a freo fan, I always knew that nothing is certain and a chance of the worse case scenario would happen. The dockers 2023 season proves that.
 
Also.... Dockers have had decent quality players wanting to leave Like Lachie Neale, Brad Hill etc. At least freo got some compo back.

I have posted about Free Agency should go down to 6 years. That should sound fair. Again a double edged sword on a good and bad side to it.

You have a rebuild you get a few 18-21 year olds. You invest 6 years and those 18-21 year olds are 24-27 year olds.

My biggest concern in any rebuild is having a good crop of 24-27 year olds spending 6 years at the club, then leave Freo and spend their prime years at other clubs.
 
WillHayward said:
Officially the worst season ever for WA footy since the AFL expansion.

Fremantle Dockers and West Coast Eagles set to combine for worst WA footy season since AFL expansion

Under 18s also rubbish in 2023 National Champs.

Lost to Allies by 88 and Vic Metro by 81.

What is happening?

Footy culture and all the financial resources under the sun.
Click to expand...

2001 was a worst season than this one. The Eagles won five games to finish 14th and Fremantle won two to take the wooden spoon.
 
West coast has a heavy defeat, they make a few changes. Callu Jameson, Elliot Yeo, Greg Clark, Josh Rotham and Luke Edwards in.


So Dockers get belted by the swans at home, Only have 1 or 2 changes.... Amazing...

Fyfe, Darcy and Walker have season ending injuries. Fair enough.

From rounds 1 to until the bye, the dockers have the fewest injuries and are plain garbage.

Sure Injuries to the occasional kid or fringe or rotation player is expected. But the lack of fight is very worrying.

Hell, I would throw Nathan wilson and Travis Coyler in the bloody side. Dont care if they are C grade plodders, at least they bring in effort.
 
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