Western Bulldogs and their partnership with Ballarat a success

[Freshwater]

I’m have no interest in F1, but I see they erect plenty of extra grandstands for that event all around the circuit. We could do the same in Ballarat until they get some more permanent stands built. We would have to play on an alternate weekend though and then use some of their stands.
I have just spent the last 2 and half years working at Kardinia Park. That grandstand and stadium in general is great but bloated, over the top with air conditioning, offices, security, management, and especially the roof which delayed the project by a year and cost at least 70% of its overall cost which we estimate to be $50-80 million over budget. Just massive figures for a stadium that is 10,000 less capacity than it's record crowd (49,000 back in the day).
Within the new Joel Selwood stand there is a massive bank for standing room patrons. Within the Ballarat master plan a terrace could be built up, where the terrace is now, at about triple the height, for a comparatively very low cost. The main grandstand needs to continue around the goals to at least the far behind post and then terrace. Eventually main size to wrap around where the tiny grandstands are now. Then the big terrace in between. This would be up to about 25,000 and still have the country feel with views to the beautiful hills and countryside.

 

[geoffjennings79]

While the game was as much of a success as can be expected, one thought is that there doesn't really seem to be any inroads into genuine Ballarat-based Bulldogs supporters. The crowd seemed to be made up entirely by a small minority of Ballarat-based general footy supporters, and Bulldogs supporters driving in from outside Ballarat (whether that be Melbourne-based fans or fans taking a shorter trip than they otherwise would have to in Melbourne, or being country folk like the comfort of a country-style game).

There were plenty of Ballarat-based Bulldogs supporters. Apart from me, I sat next to others, plus saw a few I know on the way in and others sitting in the stand.
If you mean new Ballarat-based supporters since we started playing games there, would be good (and transparent) if the club could release any figures they have. I'm not holding my breath though...
I saw a number of Ballarat-area people I know who are non-Bulldogs at the game as well. They are rusted-on supporters of their own clubs who take the opportunity to see AFL live. I cab guarantee they won't be swapping clubs they support though, and their children and grandchildren are highly unlikely as well.

Ultimately we play in Ballarat for the money, and any new supporters/members generated in the area will be minimal - in both the short and long term.

Club will never admit this though, as it contradicts a main part of the narrative.

 

[Prince Imperial]

This game was held in March and not May like the other two home matches we've had against GC but the attendance was significantly better than the previous 6k crowds we have had which did not compete against the GP.

The sponsorship we get from the state government and the City of Ballarat is of course the principal reason we play home matches there but increasing attendances will also be a factor.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Can I ask how many supporters travelled to Darwin when we sold games up there? 10,000 to 11,000,I don’t think so. A couple of thousand at the most.

Before COVID, members who didn’t go to Ballarat, could get in for free to a couple of away games, this seemed a fair and reasonable outcome. I would like to see that reinstated.

With all respect to Roogals version of events, I believe the fact North Melbourne were selling games to both Tasmania and Ballarat, caused the AFL to intervene, the fact that Ballarat is the West and our territory, not North’s was also the factor that the Bulldogs were given these games, as we withdrew from Darwin.

I love the Ballarat games, it’s a different feel to footy reminiscent of the VFL for the nostalgic ones amongst us. We also saw a function attended by Ballarat Bulldogs which was full.

Geelong has a membership around the 80,000 mark, they can’t all fit in to GMHBA but I don’t hear them all whinging, well actually I do, they want to play all home games there.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

I do think they should have kept replacement games for those who didn’t go to Ballarat as an option. Richmond at the G or Pies at Marvel (although they shouldn’t host us there) would have been a good ones for this year.

At the same time I get why it was removed

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Before COVID, members who didn’t go to Ballarat, could get in for free to a couple of away games, this seemed a fair and reasonable outcome. I would like to see that reinstated.

This is partially offset by the fact that a Dogs GA membership is slightly cheaper to account for the 9 games.

I believe the fact North Melbourne were selling games to both Tasmania and Ballarat, caused the AFL to intervene, the fact that Ballarat is the West and our territory, not North’s was also the factor that the Bulldogs were given these games, as we withdrew from Darwin.

I think our deal was slightly more palatable for a Vic government that wanted the appeal of some games there. North were waiting for a larger and future development of the stadium, we were willing to play there with much more minor development. North wanted to play 4 games there and then take a similar deal to what Tassie are paying them now (that's not to say that they were unsuccessful in that aim, but it was an election promise before Brumby lost the election and there were two changes of government when we got the deal). We didn't want to sell as many as 4 games, so the sponsorship of us was presumably less than half than what North wanted from Government bodies (in addition to the costlier up front expansion).

I love the Ballarat games, it’s a different feel to footy reminiscent of the VFL for the nostalgic ones amongst us. We also saw a function attended by Ballarat Bulldogs which was full.

Geelong has a membership around the 80,000 mark, they can’t all fit in to GMHBA but I don’t hear them all whinging, well actually I do, they want to play all home games there.

Agreed!

 

[Prince Imperial]

Our 9 game memberships are cheaper than 11 game memberships of similar clubs. We charge $210 for adult GA 9 games memberships and of course there are regular deals like the dirt cheap SEN one ($99) that the club makes available.

St Kilda, North and Melbourne charge $244-$250 for equivalent 11 game memberships. Given most people do not attend all 11, I think our offerings are fair in not providing replacement games and that the club does not have to pay for their admission at these away games.

 

[Prince Imperial]

I think our deal was slightly more palatable for a Vic government that wanted the appeal of some games there. North were waiting for a larger and future development of the stadium, we were willing to play there with much more minor development. North wanted to play 4 games there and then take a similar deal to what Tassie are paying them now. We didn't want to sell as many as 4 games, so the sponsorship of us was presumably less than half than what North wanted from Government bodies (in addition to the costlier up front expansion).

The Roos hitched their skirt to Hobart with all the dollars that were on offer which was understandable in their circumstances. However, having done so, they have no reason to gripe (which I've seen their supporters regularly do) that the State Government and the City of Ballarat sought an alternative partner.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

FWIW, I think there is/was a fair complaint for Docklands reserved seat holders that we went from 10 games in Docklands (with one sold to Cairns) to 9 with Ballarat, without a similar decrease in price.

That being said, I think the mathematical difference is so minor, and the subset of fans who enjoy their football experience only through the lens of their own reserved seat in specifically home games is small. There's enough crossover with those same fans who no longer have to fly to Cairns, but can now drive to Ballarat, even if it is more expensive, allowing for an additional Victorian game in general, which the potential access of such a game outweighs the loss of one specific reserved seat game (price notwithstanding).

 

[King Harold]

Bloody ridiculous playing in Ballarat in March.
Sunburn for both players and fans !

 

[Prince Imperial]

FWIW, I think there is/was a fair complaint for Docklands reserved seat holders that we went from 10 games in Docklands (with one sold to Cairns) to 9 with Ballarat, without a similar decrease in price.

That being said, I think the mathematical difference is so minor, and the subset of fans who enjoy their football experience only through the lens of their own reserved seat in specifically home games is small. There's enough crossover with those same fans who no longer have to fly to Cairns, but can now drive to Ballarat, even if it is more expensive, allowing for an additional Victorian game in general, which the potential access of such a game outweighs the loss of one specific reserved seat game (price notwithstanding).

In our last two home games in Ballarat, I've taken the train rather than drive. Only costs $10.40 using PT to and from my front door. $5.20 for concession holders and free for Seniors. It's less stressful and something I would recommend.

The club has offered 2 game GA standing memberships for just $22 this year, so it can be a very cheap day for many.

 

[Munnez]

Even if that is the aim, will take years to even make a dent in decades of rusted-on allegiance to other clubs. More realistic to aim for achievable foot hold and steadily increase support in Western Vic communities. Ballarat is hard enough, many of the people I know in Ballarat, Golden Plains and out to Creswick, Springbank, etc have generations of supporting a club. Very hard to change that family tradition.

It will have to be a multi generational investment to make inroads but I believe we can over time. And I have no information but all evidence suggests that the club does as well.

 

[BeMoreBont]

While the game was as much of a success as can be expected, one thought is that there doesn't really seem to be any inroads into genuine Ballarat-based Bulldogs supporters. The crowd seemed to be made up entirely by a small minority of Ballarat-based general footy supporters, and Bulldogs supporters driving in from outside Ballarat (whether that be Melbourne-based fans or fans taking a shorter trip than they otherwise would have to in Melbourne, or being country folk like the comfort of a country-style game).

Give it time. My kids are currently in primary school in Ballarat, Bulldogs have been the most supported team in each of their classrooms the last couple of years. Including some kids who's families support other teams but they have latched onto the Dogs.

Stark contrast to when I was going through school, was rare to have another fellow Bulldog.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Kids don’t follow the parents clubs so stringently anymore, they make up their own minds. (Look at Hawkin’s daughter with her Bont doll)

Seriously, don’t underestimate the influence of meeting a real life footy star has on a kid.

I know Schache’s niece is stubbornly still supporting the Bulldogs and not Melbourne.

 

[Cadillac]

Been to a handful of games in Ballarat and thoroughly enjoy the day out. But I have to say, Sunday at Ballarat was the most enjoyable experience I’ve had at a Bulldogs game since 2016.

The weather was absolutely perfect and the country feel and atmosphere that a country game has was such an excellent day. The missus loved it too. I love going to Ballarat to watch the dogs play.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Maybe not our literal first home game if possible, but a game early in the season as possible. Apart from GC not dealing with the wind very well on a few occasions, conditions were excellent, and the general quality of play and skills for both teams were far higher than the mid-year games that have been played in recent years.

As many have pointed out, to get 10k when previous games vs. Gold Coast were 6-7k in that dead time of year was fantastic.

 

[doggies ftw]

Maybe not our literal first home game if possible, but a game early in the season as possible. Apart from GC not dealing with the wind very well on a few occasions, conditions were excellent, and the general quality of play and skills for both teams were far higher than the mid-year games that have been played in recent years.

As many have pointed out, to get 10k when previous games vs. Gold Coast were 6-7k in that dead time of year was fantastic.

I’d be happy with asking the AFL if they could basically lock it in for our 2nd home game every year, so round 2 is fine if we get a home game first in round 1 (doesn’t look like that’ll ever happen again…) or if not round 3 after a home game at Marvel.

Don’t really like starting our season there but agree it needs to be as early as possible. Was a great turnout and brilliant conditions

 

[mackem]

I have been to every Ballarat game and except for the first game (when my wife came with me) I travel by V Line.

I have loved the country atmosphere at the game.

I have a n add on Ballarat membership. It only costs me an extra $77 with an excellent seat.

 

[LondonBulldog]

Our 9 game memberships are cheaper than 11 game memberships of similar clubs. We charge $210 for adult GA 9 games memberships and of course there are regular deals like the dirt cheap SEN one ($99) that the club makes available.

St Kilda, North and Melbourne charge $244-$250 for equivalent 11 game memberships. Given most people do not attend all 11, I think our offerings are fair in not providing replacement games and that the club does not have to pay for their admission at these away games.

Your really missing the point here. Pre-covid we got two replacements games, essentially an 11 game melbourne membership. I am ground level reserve seat. After covid my 9 game membership stayed the same price (actually small increase) yet I lost 2 away games. It was poor management by the club, after people like me still paying multiple reserve seat memberships knowing we couldn't go to any games during covid to then take 2 games away from us. Considering my reserve seat price stayed the same when I lost 2 games to ballarat years earlier. Other clubs still have replacement games such as Hawthorn which has 5 games. So unless our membership is $60 cheaper we are getting ripped off.
Now I love the club and will pay whatever, yet you should never treat fans with content, and they never published the fact that we would be losing our 2 away games, just slipped it in.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Your really missing the point here. Pre-covid we got two replacements games, essentially an 11 game melbourne membership. I am ground level reserve seat. After covid my 9 game membership stayed the same price (actually small increase) yet I lost 2 away games. It was poor management by the club, after people like me still paying multiple reserve seat memberships knowing we couldn't go to any games during covid to then take 2 games away from us. Considering my reserve seat price stayed the same when I lost 2 games to ballarat years earlier. Other clubs still have replacement games such as Hawthorn which has 5 games. So unless our membership is $60 cheaper we are getting ripped off.
Now I love the club and will pay whatever, yet you should never treat fans with content, and they never published the fact that we would be losing our 2 away games, just slipped it in.

I am also a Level 1 fixed reserved seat member.

I agree that the club should probably have been more upfront with fixed reserved seat holders. It removed the two replacement games for 2021 (when only cheaper flex seating was available due to Covid) and this continued when fixed reserved seating returned in 2022. They did send me and other Silver members an email in October 2020 explaining the changes for the following year and of their decision to remove the replacement games or Ballarat access using the cheaper flex seating prices as a justification. The cheaper flex options are still available.

I think though that the decision needs to be seen in the light that the club has likely kept prices increases below the rate of inflation over the last 5 or so years. I can't recall exactly what I was paying for my Silver Level 1 membership in 2019, but checking ABS data, CPI has increased 21% from the December quarter of 2018 to the December quarter of 2023 and I'd be pretty certain the price increases have been less than that. I may be wrong about this of course, so if anyone has a record of what they paid, I'd be happy to know and adjust my view if I'm wrong.

I think it's also reasonable to compare our prices with clubs in the same situation. North don't have the same equivalent of a Silver Level 1 (their only similar option includes social club and GF (lol) access) but the Saints do and they charge $527 for 11 game, reserved seat Level 1 memberships. Per game, this is a bit better value than our $460 for 9 but all businesses, including footy clubs, usually charge less per unit when more units of a product are bought.

Have your raised the issue with the club and if so, what was their response?

 

[LondonBulldog]

I am also a Level 1 fixed reserved seat member.

I agree that the club should probably have been more upfront with fixed reserved seat holders. It removed the two replacement games for 2021 (when only cheaper flex seating was available due to Covid) and this continued when fixed reserved seating returned in 2022. They did send me and other Silver members an email in October 2020 explaining the changes for the following year and of their decision to remove the replacement games or Ballarat access using the cheaper flex seating prices as a justification. The cheaper flex options are still available.

I think though that the decision needs to be seen in the light that the club has likely kept prices increases below the rate of inflation over the last 5 or so years. I can't recall exactly what I was paying for my Silver Level 1 membership in 2019, but checking ABS data, CPI has increased 21% from the December quarter of 2018 to the December quarter of 2023 and I'd be pretty certain the price increases have been less than that. I may be wrong about this of course, so if anyone has a record of what they paid, I'd be happy to know and adjust my view if I'm wrong.

I think it's also reasonable to compare our prices with clubs in the same situation. North don't have the same equivalent of a Silver Level 1 (their only similar option includes social club and GF (lol) access) but the Saints do and they charge $527 for 11 game, reserved seat Level 1 memberships. Per game, this is a bit better value than our $460 for 9 but all businesses, including footy clubs, usually charge less per unit when more units of a product are bought.

Have your raised the issue with the club and if so, what was their response?

Hi Prince, that's a good comparison with St. Kilda. I'm going to pay for our seats each year no matter what, so they have got me. I may have missed the email from the club, sometimes goes to junk folder.

I called the club when we lost the "two away" games as I think it was a mistake for a few reasons. 1. Having two away games encourages more bulldogs fans to games (I go most away anyhow). 2. Make it a marque game like Dees at the G round 1 or another Marvel tenant and we could sell out the place. These sorts of things are a positive for the club. So to me its a missed opportunity to create something special with a rival.

All I got from the guy on the phone was its 9 games and its always been 9 since Ballarat. Had to argue with him that it was not true. They are just AFL employee's those not specific to the bulldogs and generally don't know much.

Its the only way Hawthorn keep their crowd numbers up. Play the small clubs in Tassie, replacement games against the big clubs at the "G", inflates their crowd numbers. I would argue they are one of the lowest supporter bases in the AFL, yet they play the crowd numbers game.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Hi Prince, that's a good comparison with St. Kilda. I'm going to pay for our seats each year no matter what, so they have got me. I may have missed the email from the club, sometimes goes to junk folder.

I called the club when we lost the "two away" games as I think it was a mistake for a few reasons. 1. Having two away games encourages more bulldogs fans to games (I go most away anyhow). 2. Make it a marque game like Dees at the G round 1 or another Marvel tenant and we could sell out the place. These sorts of things are a positive for the club. So to me its a missed opportunity to create something special with a rival.

All I got from the guy on the phone was its 9 games and its always been 9 since Ballarat. Had to argue with him that it was not true. They are just AFL employee's those not specific to the bulldogs and generally don't know much.

Its the only way Hawthorn keep their crowd numbers up. Play the small clubs in Tassie, replacement games against the big clubs at the "G", inflates their crowd numbers. I would argue they are one of the lowest supporter bases in the AFL, yet they play the crowd numbers game.

Good post LB. I certainly appreciate that cost and value for members in your position who pay for multiple seats is a much greater concern than for people like me who just pay for one.

Your point about trying to create a marquee game against a rival club using a replacement game is a good one. I probably wouldn't select it to be Melbourne as their largely MCC members won't show up in big numbers at Marvel which is what we would want. I'd like us to get one home game at the MCG every year against a big club (which St Kilda are now getting) but I doubt the AFL will go for it.

Perhaps send your thoughts by email/letter to the CEO. By all reports, he does answer them.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Good post LB. I certainly appreciate that cost and value for members in your position who pay for multiple seats is a much greater concern than for people like me who just pay for one.

Your point about trying to create a marquee game against a rival club using a replacement game is a good one. I probably wouldn't select it to be Melbourne as their largely MCC members won't show up in big numbers at Marvel which is what we would want. I'd like us to get one home game at the MCG every year against a big club (which St Kilda are now getting) but I doubt the AFL will go for it.

Perhaps send your thoughts by email/letter to the CEO. By all reports, he does answer them.

The only way this will get some traction is by a mass number of members saying the same thing. He may need this to take to the AFL as a proposal.

 

[Roogal]

The Roos hitched their skirt to Hobart with all the dollars that were on offer which was understandable in their circumstances. However, having done so, they have no reason to gripe (which I've seen their supporters regularly do) that the State Government and the City of Ballarat sought an alternative partner.

The truth is that back in 2014 the Tasmanian Government weren't offering North Melbourne anything and assumed that North would continue playing in Tassie. That is until the re-development of Eureka Stadium came back into play during the 2014 Victorian State Election. At that stage North were still committed to Ballarat and its Reserves playing with North Ballarat FC in the VFL and had publicly expressed their desire and preference to play 3 senior H&A games per-season there if the Victorian government would sponsor the redevelopment of Eureka Stadium. At that time North were not prepared to re-commit to Tassie (pendinf a Vic Govt decision) and the Tasmanian government were getting very nervous about North Melbourne. North didn't finally commit to extending their contract in Hobart which was due to expire at the end of 2015 until the Victorian Government finally confirmed in early 2015 that they were sponsoring the Western Bulldogs to play in Ballarat. The Ballarat City Council didn't renew their $300,000 per-year sponsorship with North and that's when North Melbourne finally read the tea leaves that there was no future for them with Ballarat and they then committed to Hobart for four years at the time. So in truth it was forced upon them and not their preference. Let's keep the history behind this accurate.

 

[Roogal]

Mars Stadium upgrades update. It seems that Development Victoria are committed to a timeline for development to commence from July this year. The State Budget is in May, and this is when we are anticipating an announcement for funding of stadiums and sports facilities in Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong, Latrobe Valley and Shepparton. Until these upgrades are funded in a Budget then they cannot announce anything. That said, the Premier was in Bendigo yesterday outlining the scale and some details of upgrades that will occur in Bendigo at venues that had been earmarked to host Commonwealth Games events.

My understanding is that the designs for Mars Stadium's redevelopment have been completed and that some advance tenders have already been released despite there being no public announcements yet. Last week a government tender was released requesting 5000 seats for Mars Stadium and another calling for a demolition company to "remove buildings, fencing, road and pathways (at the old show grounds) associated with future development within the Eureka Sports Precinct in Ballarat". Development Victoria have emphatically told the Ballarat Agricultural and Pastoral Society that they are to vacate the Showgrounds by the 30th June and that they cannot hold any other activities at the site after that date, forcing them to cancel this year's Ballarat Show because the city's new showgrounds 4 km to the North that are currently under construction won't be ready by this November.

Demolition at the showgrounds are scheduled to commence July - September and construction works on the new regional athletics centre and Mars Stadium from the first quarter of 2025. All works are to be completed by the first half of 2026. Partly letting the cat out of the bag, the council recently announced that there will be no significant impact on Mars Stadium's capacity during the redevelopment which I would interpret as meaning that the new construction will mostly occur in the vicinity of the old scoreboard hill and the flat standing area in front of the video scoreboard where those parts of the ground presently have the least spectator capacity. An article in last Saturday's Ballarat Courier provided some insight to the Showgrounds closure and a government spokes-person stating "We've been working closely with local community stakeholders to plan out the next steps for this exciting upgrade and will have more to announce in the coming weeks,".