Why isn't there a player revolt?

[mxett]

What I have always believed mxett, and you know it well, is that the burden of responsibility is different for a doping case and a civil case. In the doping case the players are ultimately responsible, unaware or not, and will be banned. In a work place H&S case, let's just say your club is up the s**t creek without a paddle.

that aside, do you believe the players were in on doping or just innocent victims?

 

[andrewb]

Hird was involved in the meeting with Dank and Robinson, Hird was involved in the meeting with the convicted Drug dealer, Hird was involved in the approval process of each supplement and Thymosin was allowed even though it had not received the agreed approval process. Hird also wanted to push the boundaries.

The fact those boundaries were breached falls on him.People can say that he was not in the chain of command for Dank & Robinson but anyone who believes that does not have a brain in their head.

Benita Lalor was researching on behalf of heard and HE got his way when she did not play along and REID addressed his letter to Hird.

Hird was the man and he should have been sacked 2 years ago

Can't comment on Lalor but Hird and Reid wrote that letter together and maintain a good relationship both professionally and privately.

 

[peppy la pew]

So 34 players were complicit in a doping scheme. 6 of them are at other clubs. 11 are retired, some forced in acrimonious circumstances.

NOT ONE HAS TURNED AGAINST HIRD.

THAT MUST MEAN THEY ARE CLEARED YEAH

 

[andrewb]

What I have always believed mxett, and you know it well, is that the burden of responsibility is different for a doping case and a civil case. In the doping case the players are ultimately responsible, unaware or not, and will be banned. In a work place H&S case, let's just say your club is up the s**t creek without a paddle.

So... IF the tribunal decides that the evidence doesn't meet balance of probabilities, let alone comfortable satisfaction, will you shut up?

 

[chelseacarlton]

I know it isn't happening behind the scenes.

Now, answer the question.

Because they're all cheats!.
Birds of a feather and all that!

 

[BlueWorld]

When? Is BigFooty both a fan forum and a reputable source now?

Which are you?

 

[Percel]

I think Hird has told some white lies, but no more than androuska, demetriou, clothier, Lundy or Gil.

Certainly no where near as many as Alavi, charter, dank and robinson.

Its an interesting one for sure, especially with his connection to Charters, which is most likely innocent, but has no doubt appeared in different Intell holdings in different places.

Thats a pretty motley crew you outlined there.

 

[DrEvil_]

that aside, do you believe the players were in on doping or just innocent victims?

I believe they were misled. But you are not innocent of doping even if you are misled. That's just the way sports works. You earn millions of dollars? You better look out for illegal drugs entering your body.

 

[mxett]

Because they're all cheats!.
Birds of a feather and all that!

so thats going to save the club 10's of millions in player law suits

 

[Armchair Critic]

so you obviously think the players are innocent victims, were unaware the substances were banned, and had no intention of cheating

You are looking at it the wrong way though Mxett. OH&S cases are not going to be based on the fact substances were prohibited and they knew they were cheating. Even if a player admits that but was not fully informed about the substances they were injected with then they still may have a case.

Were players told AOD9604 had no therapeutic approval , were they informed of side effects of drugs etc etc

 

[BlueWorld]

So 34 players were complicit in a doping scheme. 6 of them are at other clubs. 11 are retired, some forced in acrimonious circumstances.

NOT ONE HAS TURNED AGAINST HIRD.

Why would anyone turn against Sir Saint golden haired angel who never did and never will do anything wrong.

 

[mxett]

I believe they were misled. But you are not innocent of doping even if you are misled. That's just the way sports works. You earn millions of dollars? You better look out for illegal drugs entering your body.

of course not, they deserve to be punished even if they were given TB4 instead of thymomodulin or thymosin alpha 1. Thats not my point

 

[DrEvil_]

So... IF the tribunal decides that the evidence doesn't meet balance of probabilities, let alone comfortable satisfaction, will you shut up?

No, I'll do a Jimmy and appeal to the high courts.

 

[master bate]

Consider the following about Essendon in 2012:

Tim Watson gets involved in the process to tip out Knights and hire Hird.
Hird's captain is Jobe Watson
Dustin Fletcher played with Hird
Mark McVeigh and David Hille were the vice captains, both would likely be pretty loyal to Hird
Stanton and Winderlich were probably the next most experienced players and after that things dropped away pretty quickly to what really was an inexperienced playing group
Danny Concoran was Hird's choice as right hand man
Thompson, Wellman were the most senior assistant coaches
Bruce Reid obviously had a close relationship with Hird being club doctor for so long
Dean Wallis was in the footy department

You can see a dynamic at play here whereby Hird is incredibly well trusted by almost his entire senior staff (including players). Once Dank won over Hird and several other of the higher ups he wasn't going to be doubted. That's the case against player revolt in 2012.

As for the case now I think someone said it earlier: if you aren't going to leave and move clubs then you may as well stick with Hird now and see if you get off the charges. Otherwise you hope the captain goes down with the ship and someone comes in and saves you.

 

[mxett]

You are looking at it the wrong way though Mxett. OH&S cases are not going to be based on the fact substances were prohibited and they knew they were cheating. Even if a player admits that but was not fully informed about the substances they were injected with then they still may have a case.

Were players told AOD9604 had no therapeutic approval , were they informed of side effects of drugs etc etc

Why would they base any OH&S law suit on the tribunal's outcome? Theyve known for 3 years that they received AOD and other off label drugs. Why wait til now to sue?

Also, I still cannot see how they can sue without any damages claim, whether it is financial or health wise

 

[spenze]

Will the players revolt?

After a guilty verdict and suspension, players arrive en masse at James Alberts house

James Albert peers through a window in his Toorak mansion :" Tania, the players are revolting"

Tania, seated in her chair, taking notes of Studio 10: "Well of course they are darling, that is why we spend our winters in France"

 

[Armchair Critic]

Can't comment on Lalor but Hird and Reid wrote that letter together and maintain a good relationship both professionally and privately.

Can't comment on Lalor but Hird and Reid wrote that letter together and maintain a good relationship both professionally and privately.

All I am going to say is I find it very hard to believe. NLM was telling us Hirdy was telling him everything was hunky dory(Legal & Safe) even when Dr Reid was telling him there were no medical reasons for the injections he was getting.

Hirdy also did not take it well when Reid stopped the program

 

[DrEvil_]

of course not, they deserve to be punished even if they were given TB4 instead of thymomodulin or thymosin alpha 1. Thats not my point

So what is your point? The players are not innocent no matter if they were in on doping or not. That may seem tough but the players can then seek compensation in court against EFC.

 

[Kwality]

The entire playing list has now, via their lawyers, been exposed to the entire body of ASADA evidence (as opposed to the doctored version printed by the AFL).

Where is the player revolt against Hird?

Watson, a born leader.

 

[teknodeejay]

The entire playing list has now, via their lawyers, been exposed to the entire body of ASADA evidence (as opposed to the doctored version printed by the AFL).

Where is the player revolt against Hird?

Why isn't there a member revolt?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hird was involved in the meeting with Dank and Robinson, Hird was involved in the meeting with the convicted Drug dealer, Hird was involved in the approval process of each supplement and Thymosin was allowed even though it had not received the agreed approval process. Hird also wanted to push the boundaries.

The fact those boundaries were breached falls on him.People can say that he was not in the chain of command for Dank & Robinson but anyone who believes that does not have a brain in their head.

Benita Lalor was researching on behalf of heard and HE got his way when she did not play along and REID addressed his letter to Hird.

Hird was the man and he should have been sacked 2 years ago

Bloody Charter, eh. He's the mate you have when you don't need a mate.

Essendon put out a press release at the start of all this, if you can remember, stating that Hird and Charter had only 'ran into' each other, trying desperately to distance their coach from the convicted drug trafficker.

Problem was, every time Charter opened his mouth to the media from that point on, he'd talk about how he discussed the program with Hird personally, and how Hird told him everything had to be safe. Immediately rendering Hird and the EFC's story of a coincidental one-off meeting void, and subsequently confirming that Hird knew of Charter's involvement in the supply chain.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Why would they base any OH&S law suit on the tribunal's outcome? Theyve known for 3 years that they received AOD and other off label drugs. Why wait til now to sue?

Also, I still cannot see how they can sue without any damages claim, whether it is financial or health wise

A negative result at a tribunal could impact how a player feels about the club and get pissed off.

 

[mxett]

So what is your point? The players are not innocent no matter if they were in on doping or not. That may seem tough but the players can then seek compensation in court against EFC.

my point is those claiming the players were in on doping are actually painting the most positive outcome if players are found guilty. It would save the club many millions of dollars

 

[mxett]

A negative result at a tribunal could impact how a player feels about the club and get pissed off.

so what of the 16 players with IN's that are no longer at Essendon? What's stopping them from suing the club over the use of AOD for example?

 

[Chameleon75]

Will the players revolt?

After a guilty verdict and suspension, players arrive en masse at James Alberts house

James Albert peers through a window in his Toorak mansion :" Tania, the players are revolting"

Tania, seated in her chair, taking notes of Studio 10: "Well of course they are darling, that is why we spend our winters in France"

let them eat cake