Pies are not at 100% yet; save that for Grand Final day !

[larrikan]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

Didn't they try this last prelim and ended up bombing it long to nobody, and then when that didn't work they tried running the ball out of defence only to see a wall of Pies so they were all doing U-turns? If the Pies play their best they'll beat any team, even an inform Geelong.

this

AND what happens if it rains or conditions are sloggy...oops..there goes the long accurate 'beat the press' plan. Not buying into the Geelong hype!

Go Pies

 

[Nicco_jj]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

This is the key for me. I hadn't seen that much intensity in the team for some time now and figured that they were waiting until finals with a double chance sewn up.

I was certain that on Saturday every player would be hitting the ball that hard that West Coast would be shell shocked as we did to Geelong last year in the prelim. Instead West Coast had the intenisty with a crazy 100 tackles.

We may have done what was needed to win only however the biggest concern I have right now is that we just don't seem to be as hard at it with our press than we did in 2010. I hope this weeks break is what is needed and we are still a very good chance of winning but my confidence is a lot less than what it was in August.

WESY COAST ATE THE NUMBER 1 CLEARANCE TEAM IN THE WHOLE OF THE AFL (COLLINGWOOD ARE 9th!!!!!!). THIS MEANS THAT THEY GET IN AND UNDER CONSTANTLY, ARE VICIOUS IN ATTACKING THE BALL AT STOPPAGES AND ARE REALLY COURAGEOUS.

WE HAD 22 MORE CLEARANCES THAN WEST COAST. JOLLY GIT MORE HIT OUTS TO ADVANTAGE. LUKE BALL, SWAN, PENDLEBURY, MAXWELL, OBRIEN (the list goes on) ACTUALLY EITHER WENT IN HARD AT THE STOPPAGES OR CONTESTED POSSESSION FIERCLY.

And remember... Dale Thomas and Reid to return. Seriously... We are definitely a big chance.

 

[upnsmoke]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

The Cats are sensational when they are ALLOWED to play their brand of football, revisit the WC game and the Sydney game when they were forced away from their groove. I'm happy to let them be the flat track bullies this season. Too many people are getting carried away with a couple of walk over wins they have had.

Anyone can be great when the pressure is off but it takes a champion team to come through with the pressure on. Twice this season they have folded when the pressure came on, I simply don't believe the hype that the press is running with in their desperate search for an alternative for a Collingwood flag. Sure we are no certainties but to say Geelong have our number is a massive overreaction I think.

- Cats do indeed go for LONG QUICK keeps the Pies press from being effective.
The THING that really really worries me, is the Cats Midfield and Half forward line they do a great job "screening" the Pies from getting back to the defensive half back, hence you see one on one situation with Pods, Hawkins etc.... and Pies weakness is one on one situations.... Pies need that extra MAN to negate the Cats tall BUT... as I said, this season the Cats do a good job "screening" Pies help defenders back.

- Only way I see is for the Pies to literally WIN the midfield and limit the long kicks.



In Round 8, they DOUBLED the Inside 50s...
In Round 24, they DOUBLED the Inside 50s...

Any Pies fans who isnt worried about this is in denial...

But hopefully the Pies take care of Preliminary first.... Hawks or Swans...

Swans are a dark horse for the premiership me thinks... they are like Saints BUT... motivated.

 

[lozza63]

I want to say that it appears many observers are calling our performance against the Eagles as concerning or worrying well in effect I feel it was one of our best efforts!

I went to both the Qualifying games on the weekend and believe me the atmosphere and intensity between the 2 games was simply chalk and cheese!

After what appeared to be a solid start the Cats slowly but surely ground the Hawks into the soggy MCG and I can tell you that apart from Hodge/Buddy the Hawks showed precious little fight!

The numbers to support my stance Cats domininated the contested possessions, clearances while the tackle count for a wettish night was only just won by the Hawks. The numbers from that night CPs total 294, tackles 139 turnovers 112 for both sides - quite an average game really for a final!

We similarly ceded a start to the Eagles after which we played 2 of the most solid quarters of footy this year against a strong and motivated opponent.

The last quarter completely surprised me - just how tenacious the Eagles were. Look at the numbers 320 contested, 173 tackles and only 88 turnovers. I certainly do not subscribe to us being near down and out - the Eagles are good - watch that 4th quarter again - they were tough!

I expect a few of the lads - Dawes, Cloke, Dids (if he retains a spot) will really be out to prove their worth next outing. On the positive note Maxy and Heater looked as if they barely missed a beat - straight into finals type form for them!

Our game was by far the most compelling, skilful and intense game of the 4! I mean Saints just rolled over and the Bombers were worse - i fell asleep after half time!

This game was just what we needed, the break was just what we needed, we will hopefully have all 24 top liners to choose from. The return of a fit Reid and Daisy raring to go - nice!

Just putting it out there that the Cats now face probably a much tougher Prelim than we do - it is hardly a given that they will smash either Eagles or Carlton. Both have good reason to fancy their chances against them.

 

[jonbe54]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

- Cats do indeed go for LONG QUICK keeps the Pies press from being effective.
The THING that really really worries me, is the Cats Midfield and Half forward line they do a great job "screening" the Pies from getting back to the defensive half back, hence you see one on one situation with Pods, Hawkins etc.... and Pies weakness is one on one situations.... Pies need that extra MAN to negate the Cats tall BUT... as I said, this season the Cats do a good job "screening" Pies help defenders back.

- Only way I see is for the Pies to literally WIN the midfield and limit the long kicks.



In Round 8, they DOUBLED the Inside 50s...
In Round 24, they DOUBLED the Inside 50s...

Any Pies fans who isnt worried about this is in denial...

But hopefully the Pies take care of Preliminary first.... Hawks or Swans...

Swans are a dark horse for the premiership me thinks... they are like Saints BUT... motivated.

Thank you for that but I'd rather be in 'denial' that chasing my tail in trying to 'remedy' all the 'deficiencies' the football world suddenly see in us.

Seriously some people are far to credulous when it comes to popular football 'wisdom'.

The cats are a great team and in top form and have a shot at the flag the same as any of the top 4 but to say they have worked us out is far far too credulous for mine.

 

[Ed D]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

- Cats do indeed go for LONG QUICK keeps the Pies press from being effective.
The THING that really really worries me, is the Cats Midfield and Half forward line they do a great job "screening" the Pies from getting back to the defensive half back, hence you see one on one situation with Pods, Hawkins etc.... and Pies weakness is one on one situations.... Pies need that extra MAN to negate the Cats tall BUT... as I said, this season the Cats do a good job "screening" Pies help defenders back.

- Only way I see is for the Pies to literally WIN the midfield and limit the long kicks.



In Round 8, they DOUBLED the Inside 50s...
In Round 24, they DOUBLED the Inside 50s...

Any Pies fans who isnt worried about this is in denial...

But hopefully the Pies take care of Preliminary first.... Hawks or Swans...

Swans are a dark horse for the premiership me thinks... they are like Saints BUT... motivated.

I don't know, 1st game against them we were coming off the bye, had Wood ruck and Ottens and Geelong's midfield dominated. Plus we had other players missing & injured during the game. It was obvious Collingwood weren't playing anywhere near their best that game, we should have lost by more than 3 points. 2nd game was pretty obvious the team didn't try and the press was non existent, plus a lot of players were out.

So while having the inside 50s doubled is concerning, I don't think those 2 games are a reflection of how Collingwood would play if we met Geelong in the GF.

 

[Raymond Rougeau]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

It's a strange thing exposed form... That's what's scaring many of us. to the optimistic I thank you and I hope your all proven spot on...

 

[jonbe54]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

It's a strange thing exposed form... That's what's scaring many of us. to the optimistic I thank you and I hope your all proven spot on...

The thing that is very interesting this year is that the press has hardly been used all year. Will be interesting to see what happens when its implemented fully

 

[Raymond Rougeau]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

Question is are we "sitting on it" tactically or can we just not snap the handcuffs of the press on this year...

 

[jonbe54]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

Question is are we "sitting on it" tactically or can we just not snap the handcuffs of the press on this year...

Mick has been very outspoken about not playing September football in July and such.

Both he and Butters have been open in saying they were deliberately managing players programs so that some of them peaked at different times in the year and the bulk at the pointy end of the year.

To my mind those comments taken together paint a picture of a tightly controlled long range preparation. Certainly having players peaking at odd times during the year wouldn't be conductive to running a full press.

It's also no secret that the full press is very physically demanding to implement, again not something that seems to fit in with the philosophy of the two statements.

Finally add a string of injuries during the year and a late rush of injuries and a couple of stupid suspensions and you have a recipe for making a team look incomplete and a little disorganized.

The season definitely hasn't gone totally to plan but I believe the basic philosophy is intact and it will all come together in time.

It's now up to the boys to implement the plan in the crucible of a GF

 

[rose jam]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

Question is are we "sitting on it" tactically or can we just not snap the handcuffs of the press on this year...

I think what the coaching panel have identified is that you can't press for long periods because of the up and back running and the tiring from excessive tackling.
If you remember last year, we buried sides in the 1st half and then just "played out" the 2nd half because we couldn't sustain the press for much longer than 2 1/2 quarters. This is very apparent in teams like Geelong and West Coast who press hard, but it's gone by midway through the 3rd. And even more exaggerated by 3 on the bench.

What we've done this year is sort of pick and choose in game when to do it and when to keep the field more open.

Against Geelong key will be to win clearances early so they don't get us locked in early. Or if we do get locked in we break it with run. If we do that we'll take away their game from the start and it's ours.

 

[Raymond Rougeau]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

I like your thinking and hope your bang on rj!

 

[Shellz]

I'm just scared that this switch that we are all assuming can be flicked on at any point isn't actually an option. What happens if our press isn't as good as we thought it was... Or worse we thought it was unbeatable but oh shit looks like Geelong/Sydney/hawthorn know how to beat it. Then what? Do we have a plan B?

 

[rose jam]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

I like your thinking and hope your bang on rj!

If you learn just one thing this year, know that what I be jamming with be right on right brah

or that Tosh.O is the most underrated show on TV


Either will do

 

[jonbe54]

I'm just scared that this switch that we are all assuming can be flicked on at any point isn't actually an option. What happens if our press isn't as good as we thought it was... Or worse we thought it was unbeatable but oh shit looks like Geelong/Sydney/hawthorn know how to beat it. Then what? Do we have a plan B?

Sure we do Shellz, what do you think we have been perfecting all year?

 

[wcesteve]

The over reaction of how good the pie's back 6 was is a laugh.....the way west coast delivered the ball any half decent back line would have had a field day.

Pie's midfield pressure is what won them the game. Eagles rushed their kicks into the forward line which was due to the mid field pressure and the eagles lack of composure probably due to having 11 players playing their first final and the old boys not playing one in 3 years. Eagles needed to carry the ball that extra 15-20m and get it deeper into the forward line , Basicly played right into collingwoods hands..... That's my view anyway and that game cost me a coffee table..lol

The Pie's will play in the GF that is for sure as you guy's have to many guns. Harry O is a thrill to whatch when he gets that run going and seems like a down to earth guy from the interviews i have seen and Peds is pure class !

 

[jonbe54]

The over reaction of how good the pie's back 6 was is a laugh.....the way west coast delivered the ball any half decent back line would have had a field day.

Pie's midfield pressure is what won them the game. Eagles rushed their kicks into the forward line which was due to the mid field pressure and the eagles lack of composure probably due to having 11 players playing their first final and the old boys not playing one in 3 years. Eagles needed to carry the ball that extra 15-20m and get it deeper into the forward line , Basicly played right into collingwoods hands..... That's my view anyway and that game cost me a coffee table..lol

The Pie's will play in the GF that is for sure as you guy's have to many guns. Harry O is a thrill to whatch when he gets that run going and seems like a down to earth guy from the interviews i have seen and Peds is pure class !

On the other side of the coin steve your mob gave us one hell of a fight, 100 tackles in a losing side is absolutely sensational. I believe midfield pressure was huge on both side with our mids forced to bomb it a fair bit as well.

You held our twin towers bloody well even considering the ball wasn't coming in great and I think it was mainly due to our big spread of goal kickers that we got through as well as we did.

Hope you guys can continue the good work over there, understand and agree that the Cats on form should get through but would love to see you guys take it up to them and finish the season with heads held high. This has the side effect of making them as sore as you did us with your great tackling!

 

[Kirby]

I think it is a myth that we will suddenly produce the "press" by flicking a switch in the coming fortnight.

No, we didn't implement it through whole games throughout the season and we didn't use it at all against Geelong it seems in the round 24 game BUT we were using it as best we could last Saturday against the Eagles.

Basically, we used it as well as we possibly could bearing in mind the fitness of some of our players and their ability to cover ground. WC took the game right up to us.

The press is not revolutionary this year and teams are countering it so we are not smashing everyone like last year. We better get used to it.

I think our form will be proven to be strong after last Saturday but make no mistake, we were flat to the boards to win that game against a very worthy opponent.

 

[jonbe54]

I think it is a myth that we will suddenly produce the "press" by flicking a switch in the coming fortnight.

No, we didn't implement it through whole games throughout the season and we didn't use it at all against Geelong it seems in the round 24 game BUT we were using it as best we could last Saturday against the Eagles.

Basically, we used it as well as we possibly could bearing in mind the fitness of some of our players and their ability to cover ground. WC took the game right up to us.

The press is not revolutionary this year and teams are countering it so we are not smashing everyone like last year. We better get used to it.

I think our form will be proven to be strong after last Saturday but make no mistake, we were flat to the boards to win that game against a very worthy opponent.

Agree with some of what you post but methinks you don't take into account the effect of Reid and Thomas being out.

Reid is perhaps the best young backman in the league and a major factor in the resilience and drive of our backline.

Thomas is incredibly hard at man and ball and with his running all day plus the ability to be explosively destructive.

Sure WC pushed us hard but they got us with a couple of VERY significant outs AND they had shot their bolt towards the end of the last quarter and we were pulling away again right at the end.

Yes its not going to be a cakewalk but NO we are not in big trouble. It's up to the boys to do the job, same as last year. I'm not over confident but I'm far from wringing my hands and moaning 'woe is me'

 

[Kirby]

^ I agree entirely with you mate.

We have improvement in us for sure and I'm not hand wringing like some others are.

I'm just saying we did play the press as best we could on Saturday (and will continue to do so).

I think our form was good out of last week and will get better.

 

[the distributer]

I think it is a myth that we will suddenly produce the "press" by flicking a switch in the coming fortnight.

No, we didn't implement it through whole games throughout the season and we didn't use it at all against Geelong it seems in the round 24 game BUT we were using it as best we could last Saturday against the Eagles.

Basically, we used it as well as we possibly could bearing in mind the fitness of some of our players and their ability to cover ground. WC took the game right up to us.

The press is not revolutionary this year and teams are countering it so we are not smashing everyone like last year. We better get used to it.

I think our form will be proven to be strong after last Saturday but make no mistake, we were flat to the boards to win that game against a very worthy opponent.

WC are a very good team, they will dispose of the Blues comfortably and will give the Cats a real run for their money, could even win IMO, you need to keep in mind the quality of players we have who are missing/underdone, fingers crossed we win our prelim and get through unscathed, then we'll have a fully match fit team to choose from, i don't think we'll be beaten if that is the case.

 

[jonbe54]

^ I agree entirely with you mate.

We have improvement in us for sure and I'm not hand wringing like some others are.

I'm just saying we did play the press as best we could on Saturday (and will continue to do so).

I think our form was good out of last week and will get better.

I'm with you Kirby I think Carlton are going to get one hell of a shock if the Eagles boys aren't too sore after almost tackling us to a standstill. Like Dissy I wouldn't be surprised to see them dispose of them over there and if that happens god help Geelong when its there turn 'coz the Eagles will throw the kitchen sink at them and Geelong have proven fragile against the press.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

From what I've noticed this season, we've never actually used the proper press this season like we did last year.

Not sure why, maybe because it is physically taxing on the players and we wanted to save it for finals? That's what I've concluded anyway. The game against West Coast was the first time that I saw we actually used an almost full press most of the game and I expect us to start using the press as well in the Prelim. And judging from that statement, you can say that we weren't even playing at our best against West Coast because the Press requires full fit 22 players on the field, and we field at least a quarter of underdone footballers.

 

[ksardog]

personally i think we will b a 5 goal better side come prelim finasl day and thats not including the returns of thomas and reid. we have looked some what lethargic at times and our intensity has been down. we have been doing the job in spurts and havent really have a full 4qtr effort until the weekend.
our best is clearly yet to come

 

[simpin68]

What's been overlooked in this discussion regarding the "press" I think is that it requires quick entry into the forward fifty and slow movement of the opposition out of their defensive fifty. This was Geelong of old.

In games against Geelong this year we haven't been able to get it into our forward fifty and when we have they rebounded too quick for us to set up the press. Teams like hawthorn who chip it around give us the time to set it up.

The other trick I noticed geelong doing worked against our run along the boundary. This was to (win the ball first) immediately kick across the body into the corridor to a player waiting for this event, even kicking backwards sometimes and giving up territory. This gave them a beautiful run down the middle and stopped our well documented movement up the side line.

Like most games it will depend on who gets the ball out of the centre and the stoppages first and how they use it.

We will need to be on our game and we can do it but it wont be the Geelong we smashed last year.