Mega Thread Essendon's punishment - Opinion, theories etc

[Tigerland]

That the talks are still going on means its not the afl negotiating, it's essendon trying to still get reductions and the afl not wanting to budge.

Contractual obligations essendon has with players, sponsors etc would mean that the slightest wrong word in the outcome would leave them open to being massively sued and they will want to avoid that. So they will be arguing over every word that implies intent.

That's why Melbourne never officially 'tanked'.

Yep, they want any implication or reference to banned drugs removed from the charges. There are a number of reasons for that, both legal and the stigma that will be labelled on them.(officially)

Which in itself is really quite funny as they can't be sure they haven't and the AFLPA have them in their sights.

ASADA and WADA might be able to clear up any confusion over whether they have or not and by the time I suspect infringements to be handed, the AFL will be on Essendon's side fighting for them funnily enough.

 

[jenny61_99]

Great coverage of this last night on Talking Footy. Tim Watson has been a far better and more accurate source of information from the outset than the likes of Carro and others who have just made things up in an attempt to join the dots.

The premiership points were gone weeks ago - Tim Watson told us that. He also told us the AFL were conditioning the public to the idea by waiting to announce it. Plus it made sense to wait ensuring Essendon's games crowds weren't effected and there wouldn't be more than one meaningless game for no points.

We all knew that. It was the Essendon faithful they were conditioning. They've been bleating for months they'd done nothing wrong other than a bit of sloppy governance. Essendon supporters were saying it will be a fine and that's it. And now supporters hear they are negotiating penalties - for having done nothing wrong. You figure it out.

 

[HomerLeGrande]

KIA will drop their multi million dollar sponsorship quick if the word "drug" appears on the penalty documentation. Essendon know this so are begging for this to be excluded.

Delaying the inevitable imo, once any one player receives an infraction notice which looks likely - the whole charade is over.

Can the AFL come back for a second bite at the cherry if ASADA does issue infractions against players and they are banned?

 

[Duni]

KIA will drop their multi million dollar sponsorship quick if the word "drug" appears on the penalty documentation. Essendon know this so are begging for this to be excluded..

Bingo. From today's Age:

Kia's multimillion-dollar deal with the club, which runs until 2016, is understood to include caveats regarding banned drugs.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-is-still-clinging-to-faint-hope-20130826-2smcr.html#ixzz2d7Co94e4​

 

[Warwick Todd]

The AFL's obvious priority is getting to a position where it can officially announce the stripping of Essendon's premiership points. That's why they allowed the 4 charged officials to leave while they ploughed on with Little & Gunston.

I doubt this thing will be concluded today or any time soon. But the AFL will be hell-bent on getting the premiership points penalty sorted ASAP because the finals are only around the corner.

 

[Tigerbob]

The difference between this case, and the Melbourne or Adelaide or Carlton cases people keep referring to, is the words "drug cheats" can't be off the table by the AFL until ASADA and then probably WADA finish with the club. "Tanking" yeah sure, we will not have you down for that because, hey, we are the law on it, but "drug cheats" well, how can we rub that off when from our information you took banned substances and we await the outcome from the investigation.

These mediation talks are just interim punishments. I suspect there will be some wheeling and dealing going on, but whilst the cloud of ASADA and WADA loom, not much the AFL can strip from the record.

Points will be off the table as the reason for the Interim report was for the Finals not to be compromised by Essendon's presence. From the information gathered so far, the AFL couldn't possibly allow them to partake in the finals.

Whatever happens here, I suspect bigger punishments are coming Essendon's way soon. Roy Masters is very connected to the ASADA situation.

 

[ziad]

That the talks are still going on means its not the afl negotiating, it's essendon trying to still get reductions and the afl not wanting to budge.

Contractual obligations essendon has with players, sponsors etc would mean that the slightest wrong word in the outcome would leave them open to being massively sued and they will want to avoid that. So they will be arguing over every word that implies intent.

That's why Melbourne never officially 'tanked'.

Hird will be cleared but suspended (for a rest) and the club will lose points and draft picks just for practice

Translated = discredited drug cheats and kings of the *

Or, ASADA bait.

 

[Suma Magic]

Does everyone think this will finish today?

I'm backing it to go into tomorrow.

 

[Warwick Todd]

It would have been interesting to see how the Essendon supplements saga would have played out if they had taken the Cronulla 'tell them nothing' approach.

From what I'm reading, Cronulla are likely to be guilty of worse than Essendon and appear to be free to play finals and are not even close to being penalised.

So much for 'self reporting' as Andrew Demetriou refers to it. The same Andrew Demetriou who just so coincidentally rang Essendon's then president David Evans the night before the "self reporting".

 

[evo]

Caroline says the 17 other clubs demanded a loss of draft picks.

yeah, I hope this is the one thing the Affal don't wilt on. It is the only meaningful sanction. Fines and executive suspensions don't mean an awful lot. You just replace them and carry on as normal.

#standbythe17clubs

 

[jenny61_99]

It would have been interesting to see how the Essendon supplements saga would have played out if they had taken the Cronulla 'tell them nothing' approach.

From what I'm reading, Cronulla are likely to be guilty of worse than Essendon and appear to be free to play finals and are not even close to being penalised.

So much for 'self reporting' as Andrew Demetriou refers to it. The same Andrew Demetriou who just so coincidentally rang Essendon's then president David Evans the night before the "self reporting".

They will likely not play for points next year. Is that what you'd prefer?

 

[jenny61_99]

It would have been interesting to see how the Essendon supplements saga would have played out if they had taken the Cronulla 'tell them nothing' approach.

From what I'm reading, Cronulla are likely to be guilty of worse than Essendon and appear to be free to play finals and are not even close to being penalised.

So much for 'self reporting' as Andrew Demetriou refers to it. The same Andrew Demetriou who just so coincidentally rang Essendon's then president David Evans the night before the "self reporting".

Helping your club out! Jesus. Talk about savage the hand that feeds you.

 

[Oscarman]

If draft picks are in the penalty, what about free agency? Taking draft picks is pointless if the Bombers could grab Daisy Thomas and one or two others under free agency.

Also, if it is either points or draft picks - take the draft picks as they have a longer term impact. Essendon won't win the flag so if it's one or the other then the picks are a more appropriate thing to take.

 

[Cosmic Energy]

This is a quote from 3AW's Sports Today last night:

“James, everyone else had their say, come out and tell us exactly what happened. You’ve been telling us for a long time now that ‘When you hear my story you’re going to understand’. I need to hear your story right now James because I, as a former player, am really annoyed that my game is now being shredded by one club.”

Amazingly this came from Brian Taylor, who normally plays the buffoon. For BT to get serious and turn on you, you must be in some serious trouble.

 

[Warwick Todd]

There are some here who won't be happy unless the AFL pour petrol on everything Essendon own and put a match to it. I never fully realised how threatened other clubs are by Essendon until now.

Some of you lot aren't looking for justice to be served here. You are just seeing it as an opportunity to have one of your greatest threats destroyed

Whatever punishment they mete out to us we'll be back to add to our Premiership cabinet that already contains 16. Catch us if you can!

 

[Mutt]

There are some here who won't be happy unless the AFL pour petrol on everything Essendon own and put a match to it. I never fully realised how threatened other clubs are by Essendon until now.

Other clubs are incredibly angry at the stupidity and arrogance of EFC: there is little to be jealous about right now.

I, and I'm pretty sure most supporters of the game, don't want to see EFC nuked - but you are changing my mind. Maybe we would all be better off to cut EFC adrift and move on.

 

[PoppedCorn]

opinion
hird two years
all other coaches one year
doc gets a year too
loss of picks from this year and next years draft
loss of points for next year
5 million $ fine to spread out to other clubs

think will happen

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't see why the disrepute findings and penalties can't be all about unacceptable risk, failed duty of care and not knowing still what players were given. It doesn't say "drug cheat" - that's for the ASADA investigation to determine. But it says more than enough for tough penalties to be handed down. Just hammer them on duty of care and disrepute and get on with it.

Edit: just remembered that they do have to be hit by the anti-doping code rules on record keeping and notification.

 

[Laphroaig]

Hird will be cleared but suspended (for a rest) and the club will lose points and draft picks just for practice
.

No chance in the world.

Once Essendon is out of finals all the urgency goes away. Plenty of time.

If Hird doesn't play ball then he get's left for later on.

 

[Suma Magic]

If draft picks are in the penalty, what about free agency? Taking draft picks is pointless if the Bombers could grab Daisy Thomas and one or two others under free agency.

Also, if it is either points or draft picks - take the draft picks as they have a longer term impact. Essendon won't win the flag so if it's one or the other then the picks are a more appropriate thing to take.

Essendon won't be recruiting any high profile players. This will be the case both in relation to free agency and via trade.

If you were a player, would you want to go to Essendon?

Essendon may be able to trade some players for picks if the ASADA investigation is finished. Otherwise these players may have to stay at Essendon, or potentially be traded for next to nothing to another club willing to take a risk on their status.

Essendon will likely only be able to recruit players who can't get on a list elsewhere.

 

[Warwick Todd]

We've been around since 1897, the first year of the competition - we won the flag that year of course - and we'll be around a lot longer

 

[Albert Ross]

Whatever punishment they mete out to us we'll be back to add to our Premiership cabinet that already contains 16. Catch us if you can!

That record is based on being better than everyone else, not worse. Your club has been mismanaged so badly that kids running a cake stall are laughing. The current management have brought disgrace to your club, you should be pounding down the doors of Windy Hill demanding they apologise for reducing your proud club to a laughing stock. That is the way back to 16-premiership glory - holding the inept mismanagement to account - not praying they escape on loopholes, technicalities and semantics.

 

[Warwick Todd]

People who think and hope this will be the death of our great club will be very sadly disappointed.

We'll be back next year building towards Premiership number 17

 

[Kamus]

People who think and hope this will be the death of our great club will be very sadly disappointed.

We'll be back next year building towards Premiership number 17

With any luck, the threatened injunctions will preclude the AFL from docking Essendon of points this year.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

The whole "it's just poor governance" approach is frustrating.

Talking about governance as a separate issue to drug cheating is a little underhanded.

The Essendon version seems to be that they didn't cheat and that any drug taking was accidental. It was just a case of hiring some dude and letting him run riot with some inadvertent results.

To me, the consent forms show a level of awareness and care (dare I say governance) about rules and legalities. The problem was that nobody, well aside from doc Reid, questioned the risks of having a drug program in the first place. The doctor shopping that B&m reported shows that Essendon are willing to take great measures to exploit a loophole in rules that a poorly governed group wouldn't even be aware of.

Governance and injecting of banned substances are two sides of the same coin here. To treat them as isolated, unrelated issues is ridiculous. However, this is the afl and ridiculous is the new normal.

The response I anticipate from Essendon fans here is "well why is it a charge of disrepute instead of medical negligence and/or doping code violations?" And to this I don't really have an answer. My guess is that the disrepute rule means they can hand down any punishment they like without having to involve any additional groups (eg police, work safe, medical board for medical negligence; and they can't charge for doping violations on an interim report.)