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Recreational Drugs. Good or Bad?

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blue gunslinger said:
All right Thy
Some great art came out in the 60/70's
Was it talented people creating new forms of art as drugs altered their perspective? Maybe but talented people create regardless of drug use.
Do drugs make talented people more talented?
I don't think so.
Can drugs make untalented people talented.
No- in sport perhaps eg B Johnson.
Is any drug safe - not even aspirin is safe but has its benefits.
Do recreational drugs have benefits- perhaps but the negatives far outway the positives as research shows.
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No question. Had a good mate of mine living as an alcoholic heroin user. Thought he could outwit it, did for a while. At least his dealer - who'd hit him up - had the decency to dump his body outside casualty at Box Hill. Gotta talk about it, my friend. :(
 
thylacine60 said:
If accurate that is as good info on the subject as I have seen. Quality - and actually fascinating. :thumbsu:
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As far as i'm aware its pretty accurate. Just a good way to get a visible representation of where they all lie in the spectrum. It also does show, that they all cause some form of harm.

The obvious thing as Guns has been saying is that the negatives pretty much always outweigh any positives.

The thing that interests/worries me is that 2 of the orange level 'drugs' are in fact legally and socially acceptable in our everyday culture.
 

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Let me say out the outset, I do not advocate the use of drugs and I cannot think of any positives for any of them (including the legal ones) but most especially when they are combined with an addictive personality.

However, whether you think recreational drugs are good or bad, is really beside the point. They are here to stay obviously, because they've been around almost forever. And despite the efforts of governments around the world, some of which are extreme, people still traffic in them and others still use them.

IMO the only way you'll ever see a reduction in their use is to stop the "war on drugs" and decriminalize ALL drugs.

Now, before you wail and scream about how that will just make them more available and therefore more prevalent, I suggest you look up a case study about Portugal. In 2001, they abandoned the idea that you lock people up for their use of drugs and instead took an "administrative" approach to the problem. Yep, that's right, they decriminalized ALL drugs (not just marijuana)

In the years since they took this action they have seen:

  1. A REDUCTION in the use of drugs among the 12 - 16 age group (widely accepted as the barometer for the shape of society in the medium term).
  2. A lower rate of increase in the use of drugs among 17 - 24 year olds (when compared to other countries in the EU).
  3. A reduction in the rate of transmission of HIV and other blood borne diseases due to the fact that users no longer share needles and also are not scared to seek medical assistance for fear of being labelled as a drug user.
  4. A huge reduction in the cost of policing/enforcement/incarceration.
  5. A large increase in the medical and educational programmes to both help drug users and also warn against the dangers of drug use.
I'm sure that other countries will eventually follow suit and I'm also sure that "enlightened" countries like Australia and the US will be amongst the last to accept the inevitable.

But nothing is more certain than the fact that as long as there is profit (and huuuuuuge profits at that) to be made out of drugs, they will remain a problem for every nation. The only way to take the profit out of them is for governments to start distributing them (in a controlled way) and the only way anyone is going to get their head around that concept is for drugs to have the stigma removed through decriminalization.

Let the baying begin :)
 
blue gunslinger said:
I agree (as long as they are ONLY available from your local pharmacy)
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Actually, in my plan, it would be more like clinics that offer medical and counselling services as well, but pharmacies will do initially :)
 

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OldBlueFan said:
Let me say out the outset, I do not advocate the use of drugs and I cannot think of any positives for any of them (including the legal ones) but most especially when they are combined with an addictive personality.

However, whether you think recreational drugs are good or bad, is really beside the point. They are here to stay obviously, because they've been around almost forever. And despite the efforts of governments around the world, some of which are extreme, people still traffic in them and others still use them.

IMO the only way you'll ever see a reduction in their use is to stop the "war on drugs" and decriminalize ALL drugs.

Now, before you wail and scream about how that will just make them more available and therefore more prevalent, I suggest you look up a case study about Portugal. In 2001, they abandoned the idea that you lock people up for their use of drugs and instead took an "administrative" approach to the problem. Yep, that's right, they decriminalized ALL drugs (not just marijuana)

In the years since they took this action they have seen:

  1. A REDUCTION in the use of drugs among the 12 - 16 age group (widely accepted as the barometer for the shape of society in the medium term).
  2. A lower rate of increase in the use of drugs among 17 - 24 year olds (when compared to other countries in the EU).
  3. A reduction in the rate of transmission of HIV and other blood borne diseases due to the fact that users no longer share needles and also are not scared to seek medical assistance for fear of being labelled as a drug user.
  4. A huge reduction in the cost of policing/enforcement/incarceration.
  5. A large increase in the medical and educational programmes to both help drug users and also warn against the dangers of drug use.
I'm sure that other countries will eventually follow suit and I'm also sure that "enlightened" countries like Australia and the US will be amongst the last to accept the inevitable.

But nothing is more certain than the fact that as long as there is profit (and huuuuuuge profits at that) to be made out of drugs, they will remain a problem for every nation. The only way to take the profit out of them is for governments to start distributing them (in a controlled way) and the only way anyone is going to get their head around that concept is for drugs to have the stigma removed through decriminalization.

Let the baying begin :)
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was going to start a thread on this, then did a search to see if i could bump one. i am in agreement with OldBlueFan on this one.
my thoughts.
1. admit the war on drugs can't be won through the courts. how many billions of dollars worldwide have been spent on this unwinnable war, and the incarceration of users? treat it as a health problem not a criminal one.
2. decriminalize.
3. regulate their manufacture as per alcohol and tax in the same way.
4. provide a much better funded and resourced (through the extra revenue gained from its taxation) counselling and rehabilitation service.

with this method you would hopefully see.
A. in large part the removal of the criminal element in the manufacture and distribution side of it. ie. you don't see a great deal of police and court resources taken up with the tracking down and prosecuting of backyard still and distribution cartels. this would free up police and courts to concentrate on other illegal activities.
B. having the previous illegal drugs regulated for quality (they would not be cut with other ingredients) would mean you would know what you are getting.

some interesting graphs and article here.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...kjcrYrcjKAhUGjZQKHTwWDUMQsAQIIw&dpr=1#imgrc=_
https://www.americanscientist.org/libraries/documents/200645104835_307.pdf
a small snippet from the article. "if alcohol were a newly formulated beverage, its high toxicity and addiction potential would surely prevent it from being marketed as a food or drug".

note: i was a heavy drinker in my youth and am now a very occasional (1 or 2) drinker and have had 1 personal use experience with an illegal substance.
 
MODS. did not realize this was on the carlton board until i posted it. if it could be moved to the society, religion and politics forum i would appreciate it.
sorry for the intrusion blues fans, first time i have ever been on another teams board.
The Old Dark Navy's
 
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jason pm said:
MODS. did not realize this was on the carlton board until i posted it. if it could be moved to the society, religion and politics forum i would appreciate it.
sorry for the intrusion blues fans, first time i have ever been on another teams board.
The Old Dark Navy's
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Lol. You may have got some bad advice that merely posting here is akin to sneaking in to North Korea. Happy for anything that contributes constructively.
 

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The Old Dark Navy's said:
I know nothing.
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1420212548821
 
The fact somebody can do a random search and get pointed to our board on this subject is not good- did enjoy the trip down memory lane. Come walk the streets and see the dire consequences of recreational use of ice speed heroin Mary Jane - see the impact on family and friends. Legalising it will fix this?
 

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