Conspiracy Theory 9/11 - Part 2

[Total Power]

You would have some credibility on here if you could at least address why you disagree with his post.

P35 declaring it to be the case while ranting wildly doesn't make it the case. You need to explain your position - that's how discussions work.

You havent figured it out yet but he is not interested in a discussion, he wants affirmation for his beliefs, anyone who dares say anything against his belief is a fool or a moron nevermind the fact that all evidences are stacked up against him. Every.Single.Thread.

If you cant win an argument, ad-hom your way out of it and then claim the other person is an idiot or a moron, the internet is full of them unfortunately.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The JFK conspiracy is more plausible than 9/11 by the length of the Flemington Straight.

Oh Dear.

That's like saying Dogs are more real than Cats by the length of the Flemington straight.

At least you admit that hyperbole & fallacies are all you have left.....By way of argumentation.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I am on your side on this one,

These guys are putting up a decent argument. Nothing wrong with that. I respect it.

I have accepted long ago that 9/11 is in the JFK bracket and there is nothing anyone can do about it, Unless there is a Watergate pot luck situation arises which may or may not exist.

Only if we accept the C.I.A as any kind of an independent authority in terms of being reality dictators.....You know....That would be the people who coined the term 'conspiracy theorist' & T'in-foil-hat wearer' to begin with, as a means by which to discredit any alternate narrative to the one they were presenting as 'The truth'.

 

[NEGAN]

Only if we accept the C.I.A as any kind of an independent authority in terms of being reality dictators.....You know....That would be the people who coined the term 'conspiracy theorist' & T'in-foil-hat wearer' to begin with, as a means by which to discredit any alternate narrative to the one they were presenting as 'The truth'.

I agree, but If only this reflected reality.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I agree, but If only this reflected reality.

Anyone who disagrees with the 'official' Kennedy Assassination narrative has a better grip on reality than any person who swallows the Warren Commission report......That's for Goddamn sure.

And it was for those questioning it's phony tenets that the "Conspiracy nutters' term was coined.

So once again.....It's a fully deflective & fallacious form of ad hom argumentation, designed to shut people up & quash any discussion or questioning of it's 'findings' forthwith.

And one can say precisely the same about the 9/11 Commission report.....Same hatchet job, same mob involved, Same Narrative entirely.

 

[NEGAN]

Anyone who disagrees with the 'official' Kennedy Assassination narrative has a better grip on reality than any person who swallows the Warren Commission report......That's for Goddamn sure.

And it was for those questioning it's phony tenets that the "Conspiracy nutters' term was coined.

So once again.....It's a fully deflective & fallacious form of ad hom argumentation, designed to shut people up & quash any discussion or questioning of it's 'findings' forthwith.

And one can say precisely the same about the 9/11 Commission report.....Same hatchet job, same mob involved, Same Narrative entirely.

My point from my original post re 9/11 JFK

Is we all have our opinion on the matter, but it is what it is, unless a Watergate style fluke proves otherwise.

 

[Procrastinator35]

My point from my original post re 9/11 JFK

Is we all have our opinion on the matter, but it is what it is, unless a Watergate style fluke proves otherwise.

Watergate can no longer happen in the U.S, as all the media is now owned by so few.....And those few are fully entwined with the same multi-nats, who are fully invested in the govt Narrative.....Which wasn't the case back in the 60's, where there were hundreds of owners & publications.....The dice are now fully loaded; other than the internet.....Enter 'Net-Neutrality'.

We now live in the age of a full-spread propaganda war against the truth.

9/11 will be the causative factor that eventually tears the U.S apart....A country cannot live, survive & prosper in an atmosphere so toxic & steeped in denial as it currently is.

 

[NEGAN]

Watergate can no longer happen in the U.S, as all the media is now owned by so few.....And those few are fully entwined with the same multi-nats, who are fully invested in the govt Narrative.....Which wasn't the case back in the 60's, where there were hundreds of owners & publications.....The dice are now fully loaded; other than the internet.....Enter 'Net-Neutrality'.

We now live in the age of a full-spread propaganda war against the truth.

9/11 will be the causative factor that eventually tears the U.S apart....A country cannot live, survive & prosper in an atmosphere so toxic & steeped in denial as it currently is.

Mate you're preaching to the converted here, I agree with what you say.

But with 9/11 just like JFK will always be "it is what it is" unless a freak occurrence happens. Of course it's not going to be a Watergate style occurrence I just don't know what the modern day equivalent would be (some hacker perhaps) for something of this nature to be exposed. (If there is in fact anything that needs to be exposed).

 

[Total Power]

The US government has never kept a secret in history. From financial markets to Benghazi to Iraq to Syria to oval office blowjob, everything is exposed. A conspiracy of such grand scale like 9/11 involving thousands of people and organisations is an exception to this? no way Jose. The people at white house are not very smart.

 

[Thrawn]

The US government has never kept a secret in history.

You don't know that.

A conspiracy of such grand scale like 9/11 involving thousands of people and organisations is an exception to this? no way Jose. The people at white house are not very smart.

Why would it need thousands of people?

 

[Total Power]

You don't know that.

Pretty safe bet when their top secret cables already exposed and continue to be exposed every month.

Why would it need thousands of people?

Why wouldnt it? from Airlines to the actors, to the explosives, to the financial documents in tower 7 (apparently), to the telephone companies where the SMS' were sent to the semites (apparently), to the pentagon officials, to the CIA, to the building managers/officials who had knowledge of the explosives, from the people who apparently sold airline stocks before 9/11 or inside traders (apparently) etc etc. Literally thousands and thousands of people are involved in this. None of them spoke up?

 

[Thrawn]

Pretty safe bet when their top secret cables already exposed and continue to be exposed every month.

A safe bet? Unless you're personally involved with it, you know as much as the rest of us do. Meaning: diddly-squat.

Why wouldnt it? from Airlines to the actors, to the explosives, to the financial documents in tower 7 (apparently), to the telephone companies where the SMS' were sent to the semites (apparently), to the pentagon officials, to the CIA, to the building managers/officials who had knowledge of the explosives, from the people who apparently sold airline stocks before 9/11 (apparently) etc etc. Literally thousands and thousands of people are involved in this. None of them spoke up?

Because an operation like this (let's assume for argument's sake that it was) wouldn't require that many people. Even if you take all of these into account, you're deliberately inflating the number.

Break it down some more, though. Where do you get thousands of people from out of all of that? You just need dozens of people at key locations. A lot of them wouldn't even be told the real purpose (compartmentalisation). And why/how would the building managers necessarily know? If you had, oh say, people posing as elevator workers/electricians and you had control of the building's security, no one would be the wiser. Then there are bystanders, like air traffic controllers, office workers, etc who either wouldn't know s**t, would pass things off as coincidental or would fear ridicule/being shut up if they said anything.

Not sure why you mention the Pentagon and CIA officials though, that goes without saying really. These are the same people who wanted Operation Northwoods put through. The people at the top of those organisations are ruthless and heartless, they wouldn't give two shits about civvie casualties if it meant a stronger America geopolitically. Regardless, it doesn't necessarily mean their entire organisation is involved (just like the "deep state" gov stuff if you believe in such things). That's why I don't think an "inside job" would be as unconscionable as first thought, even if at the very least it means they let it happen (this is where I lean to now, actually).

 

[CM86]

I have to say. I enjoyed the pages that were factual.
Comments were made, and links were given to support those comments.
Or rebuttals were made, and links and explanations were given to support the rebuttals.

Now the thread has gone back to ad hom, and insinuation/allusion.

 

[Thrawn]

I have to say. I enjoyed the pages that were factual.
Comments were made, and links were given to support those comments.
Or rebuttals were made, and links and explanations were given to support the rebuttals.

Now the thread has gone back to ad hom, and insinuation/allusion.

Are you referring to my exchange with TP?

 

[CM86]

Are you referring to my exchange with TP?

No.


Edit: Yes. You and TP are making assumptions, without actual proof.

 

[Thrawn]

No.

 

[Thrawn]

Edit: Yes. You and TP are making assumptions, without actual proof.

Proof for what, exactly? This is a devil's advocate/thought exercise here. I don't need proof to assume things, especially when I'm not using these assumptions to say something like "this is actually what happened". It's fun to speculate though.

 

[Total Power]

A safe bet? Unless you're personally involved with it, you know as much as the rest of us do. Meaning: diddly-squat.


Because an operation like this (let's assume for argument's sake that it was) wouldn't require that many people. Even if you take all of these into account, you're deliberately inflating the number.

Break it down some more, though. Where do you get thousands of people from out of all of that? You just need dozens of people at key locations. A lot of them wouldn't even be told the real purpose (compartmentalisation). And why/how would the building managers necessarily know? If you had, oh say, people posing as elevator workers/electricians and you had control of the building's security, no one would be the wiser. Then there are bystanders, like air traffic controllers, office workers, etc who either wouldn't know s**t, would pass things off as coincidental or would fear ridicule/being shut up if they said anything.

Not sure why you mention the Pentagon and CIA officials though, that goes without saying really. These are the same people who wanted Operation Northwoods put through. The people at the top of those organisations are ruthless and heartless, they wouldn't give two shits about civvie casualties if it meant a stronger America geopolitically. Regardless, it doesn't necessarily mean their entire organisation is involved (just like the "deep state" gov stuff if you believe in such things). That's why I don't think an "inside job" would be as unconscionable as first thought, even if at the very least it means they let it happen (this is where I lean to now, actually).

The reason why i said 1000s of people is cause of the sheer size of the companies involved in the conspiracy.

UA being first, not only lie about planes getting hijacked, then lie about calls made onbaord to the families via their help desk.

Which would involve telecom companies who are not going to give out GPS coordinartes of the calls.

These 2 would involve 2 major US companies.

Then you would have SEC and brokerage/trading firms who made millions in insider trading pre-crash.

They would have to have first hand knowledge of the incidents.

The SEC has over 100 subisidiers alone.

I do agree with you that you would need to have "key people" involved at key locations.

But its a bit more than "just that" when the actors onboard were over 300 in number. (people who died in crash).

They were not just key people, they were THE KEY people.

Then you have terrorists who were actors too (Key people).

A secured building like WTC 1,2/7 would have tons of explosive brought into it, would require several key people inside the building.

Then you have would defense contractors who were apparently the chief architects of this inside job. They are several in number.

Here is a quote from wikipedia conspiracy page

Raytheon, a defense contractor, had an anomalously high number of call options trading on September 10. A Raytheon option that makes money, if shares are more than $25 each had 232 options contracts traded on the day before the attacks, almost six times the total number of trades that had occurred before that day.

That would mean the "market" had full knowledge of the inside job IF its true. That would involve large conglomerates making millions if not billions, heres more

The initial options were bought through at least two brokerage firms, including NFS, a subsidiary of Fidelity Investments, and TD Waterhouse. It was estimated that the trader or traders would have realized a five million dollar profit. The Securities and Exchange Commission launched an insider trading investigation in which Osama bin Laden was a suspect after receiving information from at least one Wall Street Firm.[70]

As they say follow the money trail.

There are others i can mention as well but just follow the money trail and see who profited the most from it. That would have be several organisations in wall street.

Here is a list of people/organisations that benefited most from 9/11. As i said, follow the money trail IF i consider it to be an insider job

http://www.globalresearch.ca/9-11-who-really-benefited/25762

 

[Total Power]

No.


Edit: Yes. You and TP are making assumptions, without actual proof.

Mate its just an assumption, like a scenario, IF it was an inside job, wouldn't it involve thousands of people and organisations?

what's your opinion?

 

[Thrawn]

The reason why i said 1000s of people is cause of the sheer size of the companies involved in the conspiracy

The size of these companies doesn't matter. If you work for a big firm, do you know exactly what goes behind closed doors at the top?

UA being first, not only lie about planes getting hijacked, then lie about calls made onbaord to the families via their help desk.

Why would they be lying? Would it be impossible for an organisation like the CIA to fabricate evidence?

Which would involve telecom companies who are not going to give out GPS coordinartes of the calls.

These 2 would involve 2 major US companies.

Not everyone there would be in a position to give them out though. As I said, you need key people to do that... for "national security" of course. Spooks always have that plausible denial card!

Then you would have SEC and brokerage/trading firms who made millions in insider trading pre-crash.

They would have to have first hand knowledge of the incidents.

Not necessarily. How many people got rich from this? How far did it deviate from the norm? Can you separate those who genuinely believed stocks would tip, from those who may have had first-hand knowledge?

But its a bit more than "just that" when the actors onboard were over 300 in number. (people who died in crash)

They were not just key people, they were THE KEY people.

Then you have terrorists who were actors too (Key people).

Being none the wiser, I do not think you could classify them as actors.

A secured building like WTC 1,2/7 would have tons of explosive brought into it, would require several key people inside the building.

Then you have would defense contractors who were apparently the chief architects of this inside job. They are several in number.

Chief architects? Perhaps more like people with inside knowledge. Though at the top, people who made these decisions though, working with intelligence agencies and ensuring they get their piece of the pie... wouldn't put it past them!

That would mean the "market" had full knowledge of the inside job IF its true. That would involve large conglomerates making millions if not billions, heres more

All of them? At every single level?

There are others i can mention as well but just follow the money trail and see who profited the most from it. That would have be several organisations in wall street.

No doubt. These organisations get their profits from misery and death, would you put it past them?

 

[BustedWing]

ecause an operation like this (let's assume for argument's sake that it was) wouldn't require that many people. Even if you take all of these into account, you're deliberately inflating the number.

Very much disagree.

Take for example the "pentagon missile". The people you would need to keep quiet are:
* members of the public who were driving by at the time, who saw the missile but will now need to say for the rest of their lives it was a plane. How many is that? Many reports have that at around 100 or so.
* People that planted the plane debris and other damage consistent with a plane hitting. What you reckon? 10? 20 people to do the job?
* Rescue workers who would have found missile evidence, or at the least, no plane evidence, in the rubble. There were literally thousands of people there for weeks and weeks. How many might have seen incriminating evidence?
* Of course, then there is the missing plane from American Airlines, the missing people from the planes (who's remains were found in the pentagon, which would have needed to have been planted after the fact I guess). Those people boarded a plane that day from an international airport, so that plane, if not crashing into the pentagon, went somewhere? Where? Once they were there, people would have SEEN said plane, and would have needed to be kept quiet about that fact.

Then we talk about the money...

How much to keep quiet I wonder? What would it cost to keep YOU quiet, Thrawn, on the greatest conspiracy of all time? If it were me, I would make sure me and my family never had to want for anything for the rest of time. So maybe thats...$50m? $100m?

Now i've just come into that massive amount of money. I would need to keep my accountant quiet and not question the fact that his client was working at the pentagon on 9/11, and all of a sudden is a multi millionaire for no good reason. My family and friends...they would need to be quiet too, lest they spill the means on my good fortune. Perhaps we pay them of as well.

Thats just one person of course, and we are talking about potentially thousands with information that would blow the case wide open.

THen there are those that were asked to be in on the conspiracy, but had a conscience, and said no. What of those people that said, "no thanks, I dont want to be in on this, no matter how much you pay". What of them? Kill them? Pay them off to keep quiet about being asked to keep quiet?

We are talking about billions of hush money, and hoping that no one blows it all on hookers and coke, then decides to cash in with an interview on Oprah. No one gets a messy divorce, and exposes their arsehole ex. No deathbed confessions.

And this is just ONE part of the conspiracy!

Add in the thermite at ground zero, WTC7 getting wired up, The shanksville crash, The rescue workers finding suspicious stuff in the rubble, The reporters "knowing the story in advance", The people who had stock options ahead of time. Family members of the deceased who took fake phone calls from their loved ones. Those that MADE those dodgy phone calls...the list goes on and on and on and on.

You cant compartmentalise something like this. Too big. Too complicated.

 

[CM86]

My point is, that as NEGAN pointed out... when it comes to human error (evil, intention, assumptions of the actions of people) the conversation was much better when there was conjecture corrected by facts and evidence.

Now, I don't disagree that to cover up all of 9/11 would take thousands of people, and would be outside of the realm of the US Gov... But... I can't actually prove it either way... so that's just conjecture on both sides, not proof.


So why don't we just go back to purely evidence for a little while. Because then both sides can help each other understand their points and direction.


Rather than never understanding each other's position... because we explain nothing, detail nothing, and just claim the other 'side' is wrong.

 

[NEGAN]

My point is, that as NEGAN pointed out... when it comes to human error (evil, intention, assumptions of the actions of people) the conversation was much better when there was conjecture corrected by facts and evidence.

Now, I don't disagree that to cover up all of 9/11 would take thousands of people, and would be outside of the realm of the US Gov... But... I can't actually prove it either way... so that's just conjecture on both sides, not proof.


So why don't we just go back to purely evidence for a little while. Because then both sides can help each other understand their points and direction.


Rather than never understanding each other's position... because we explain nothing, detail nothing, and just claim the other 'side' is wrong.

Which is my whole point "it is what it is"

There is nothing truthers can say because the os is accepted as fact. If they try and make point it automatically becomes assumption to worst case scenario tin foil. Truthers will never win this argument or change deniers opinion based on the os.

 

[CM86]

Which is my whole point "it is what it is"

There is nothing truthers can say because the os is accepted as fact. If they try and make point it automatically becomes assumption to worst case scenario tin foil. Truthers will never win this argument or change deniers opinion based on the os.

I understood it.

Same as while I don't believe in the specific conspiracy of pizzagate... I do feel that there would be some kind of pedophile ring in the upper echelons of society... that is hidden from us.

 

[Total Power]

The size of these companies doesn't matter. If you work for a big firm, do you know exactly what goes behind closed doors at the top?

But the task still has to be carried out by "people" working in the organisation. Right? Example: you had full knowledge of 9/11 being an inside job, you ask me (as your employee) to buy 1 million shares of a defense contracting company.

Why would they be lying? Would it be impossible for an organisation like the CIA to fabricate evidence?

Its their aircrafts. According to 9/11 conspiracy theory the plane which hit the towers was a military plane. So what happened to the UA plane? disappeared? its not a small item you know.

Not everyone there would be in a position to give them out though. As I said, you need key people to do that... for "national security" of course. Spooks always have that plausible denial card!

Agree but you still need people on the ground to carry out the operations.

Not necessarily. How many people got rich from this? How far did it deviate from the norm? Can you separate those who genuinely believed stocks would tip, from those who may have had first-hand knowledge?

How many? all that matter are big companies. Morgan stanely for example"

http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html#.WUvhR-t97IU

- Between September 6 and 7, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw purchases of 4,744 put options on United Airlines, but only 396 call options… Assuming that 4,000 of the options were bought by people with advance knowledge of the imminent attacks, these “insiders” would have profited by almost $5 million.

- On September 10, 4,516 put options on American Airlines were bought on the Chicago exchange, compared to only 748 calls. Again, there was no news at that point to justify this imbalance;… Again, assuming that 4,000 of these options trades represent “insiders,” they would represent a gain of about $4 million.

Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co., which occupied 22 floors of the World Trade Center, saw 2,157 of its October $45 put options bought in the three trading days before Black Tuesday; this compares to an average of 27 contracts per day before September 6. Morgan Stanley’s share price fell from $48.90 to $42.50 in the aftermath of the attacks. Assuming that 2,000 of these options contracts were bought based upon knowledge of the approaching attacks, their purchasers could have profited by at least $1.2 million. Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw 12,215 October $45 put options bought in the four trading days before the attacks; the previous average volume in those shares had been 252 contracts per day [a 1200% increase!]. When trading resumed, Merrill’s shares fell from $46.88 to $41.50; assuming that 11,000 option contracts were bought by “insiders,” their profit would have been about $5.5 million.

Raytheon, maker of Patriot and Tomahawk missiles, saw its stock soar immediately after the attack. Purchases of call options on Raytheon stock increased sixfold on the day before the attack.

Just a few examples. Shows market had full knowledge of the attacks.

Being none the wiser, I do not think you could classify them as actors.

According to CT, they were actors. If it was indeed a military plane so what happened to the original flight and the people? disappeared? earth swallowed them? remember i am talking from an inside jobber perspective, i agree with you they were real people and not actors.

[/QUOTE]