Western Bulldogs and their partnership with Ballarat a success

[BallaratBulldog]

Dump. Would have been better off selling games to Geelong. At least a lot of our fans live closer to Geelong than that cold hole Ballarat, Jesus. Another bright idea by our club.

They tried and Geelong were willing. AFL blocked us.

Something like 700k at 20k crowd was discussed.

 

[Leon]

Going as terrible as we are during the early phases of this project has been less than ideal. Probably damaging its longevity at this point.

This is the key point for me.

Let’s assume hypothetically for a moment that we were still in our 2016 form, and that we won today.

No one would have given a flying one about the cold and the trek down and would be labelling the club geniuses for doing it.

Of course, we’re a poor side at the moment and we lost today so of course it’s easier to gripe about how cold it was and how Ballarat is ages away etc etc.

Ballarat for us needs time. Rome was not built in a day.

The club isn’t, should not and will not abandon a venture like this after three measly games in a down period on field.

My motto on Ballarat: Give it time.

 

[ossie_21]

Needs time & better fixture planning obviously. Personally think the second & second last home game should be at Ballarat, with earlier start times so it’s played in the daytime.

Late finish & shitty weather for a lot of people that’s have to drive for a few hours to get home isn’t great...ironic with today’s weather, finish time and the “below 0” campaign

 

[Randomthoughts]

Cairns was a better option for us . Unbelievable to even think it but true if selling games is the only way to forward for us .

 

[dogwatch]

Needs time & better fixture planning obviously. Personally think the second & second last home game should be at Ballarat, with earlier start times so it’s played in the daytime.

Late finish & shitty weather for a lot of people that’s have to drive for a few hours to get home isn’t great...ironic with today’s weather, finish time and the “below 0” campaign

Even a game in each of April and May would be better because the weather is usually milder than July or early August.

One benefit of late August (apart from a slight uptick in the thermometer) is that the days are longer. It's only 4 weeks before the spring equinox. A game in May (depending on the exact date) is likely to be about 6-8 weeks after the autumn equinox. This has a few benefits, and it's not just the lighting.

If you looked at the scheduling you'd almost think the AFL was trying to sabotage the Ballarat initiative, now that we're contracted to it.

Naah, surely not.

 

[ossie_21]

Even a game in each of April and May would be better because the weather is usually milder than July or early August.

One benefit of late August (apart from a slight uptick in the thermometer) is that the days are longer. It's only 4 weeks before the spring equinox. A game in May (depending on the exact date) is likely to be about 6-8 weeks after the autumn equinox. This has a few benefits, and it's not just the lighting.

If you looked at the scheduling you'd almost think the AFL was trying to sabotage the Ballarat initiative, now that we're contracted to it.

Naah, surely not.

I originally thought 2 of the first 4 home games, but it’s best to split them up if we are trying to build it up in the area & not seem to visit one time of the year.

I think even the AFL will agree the darkness being a factor (only seen some pics & it looked pretty bad)

 

[dogwatch]

I originally thought 2 of the first 4 home games, but it’s best to split them up if we are trying to build it up in the area & not seem to visit one time of the year.

I think even the AFL will agree the darkness being a factor (only seen some pics & it looked pretty bad)

A moment's thought about it should have been enough to tell them a 3:20 start was dumb. And it supposedly cost the AFL tens of thousands to augment the lighting (without much success).

So I'm not sure if it was stupidity, lack of thought or pig-headedness. Maybe all of the above ... with a dash of hubris thrown in for good measure.

 

[NBates]

Cairns was a better option for us . Unbelievable to even think it but true if selling games is the only way to forward for us .

Completely disagree. Went to one and it was ok but more a promo for GCS than us.
Would love to see Ballarat work, many reasons it's not:

- our complete fall away from the success of 2016
- game should be scheduled earlier in the day if a Sunday
- prefer a Sat (so people travelling from Melbourne have a day of rest Sunday especially with kids) however with kids sport it might have to be a late start on a Sat.
- each game should be scheduled first 2 and last 2 of season, or maybe both in first 5 weeks of season.
- do the AFL really care? Or is it simply a club initiative? Peter G (are you still here?) Some updated info about how it's gone so far and the plan going forward would be comforting.

Really do think a lot of it is success driven - I mean it was packed when we started, but expectations were high after 2016 and I think we would have travelled anywhere to see our successful boys. I'm finding it tough to drive 15 mins to Etihad (or whatever it is now) at the mo.


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Randomthoughts]

Completely disagree. Went to one and it was ok but more a promo for GCS than us.
Would love to see Ballarat work, many reasons it's not:

- our complete fall away from the success of 2016
- game should be scheduled earlier in the day if a Sunday
- prefer a Sat (so people travelling from Melbourne have a day of rest Sunday especially with kids) however with kids sport it might have to be a late start on a Sat.
- each game should be scheduled first 2 and last 2 of season, or maybe both in first 5 weeks of season.
- do the AFL really care? Or is it simply a club initiative? Peter G (are you still here?) Some updated info about how it's gone so far and the plan going forward would be comforting.

Really do think a lot of it is success driven - I mean it was packed when we started, but expectations were high after 2016 and I think we would have travelled anywhere to see our successful boys. I'm finding it tough to drive 15 mins to Etihad (or whatever it is now) at the mo.

I agree the game start time made it very difficult for Melbourne based fans to drive up . Must be earlier Sunday games . If I recall last game was on a Saturday and it flopped too . I hope it works out...
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[BeMoreBont]

The thing that annoys me the most about this whole thing is where they decided to build the big stand.

The wind has been ruining games at that oval for forever and a day. And it always comes through the same section of the ground.

The Grandstand should have started where the useless scoreboard that doesn't work like it should is. That would block alot of the wind.

To make matters worse people are paying $50 for a seat in the grandstand and the ball is coming over that side of the ground a handful of times a game. Because the wind ruins the spectacle.

I was sitting right near the interchange and it was a debacle. Blokes were being stuck on the bench for 15 minutes at a time because the ball was living in a half of the ground and no goals were being kicked. Wallis in the third quarter was off for about 20 minutes.

The official crowd figure was 400 less than the Suns gane earlier in the year. And it seemed miles off that crowd to my eye. Not sure how correct the figure actually is..

Alot needs to change if this has any chance.

 

[lachy]

Cranbourne is the fastest and largest growing area according to the ABS. The Dogs are not based there.

Two of the clubs you mention invest in the western suburbs - Hawks and North - currently invest in playing in Tas (amongst other areas) so clearly investing in multiple areas and not just the suburbs within a 10km radius is a successful strategy.

Essentially you’re advocating the club not play at Ballarat, make less money and then invest more from less in the surrounding suburbs.

Really hard to see the viable long term strategy in investing solely in the inner western suburbs, competing against multiple clubs in a national competition when other clubs are spreading themselves across multiple regions, all the while hoping we eventually make more money from these low drawing games at Etihad.

So another "crowd" under 7k. What part of the strategy is working at all again?

 

[lachy]

Cranbourne is the fastest and largest growing area according to the ABS. The Dogs are not based there.

Two of the clubs you mention invest in the western suburbs - Hawks and North - currently invest in playing in Tas (amongst other areas) so clearly investing in multiple areas and not just the suburbs within a 10km radius is a successful strategy.

Essentially you’re advocating the club not play at Ballarat, make less money and then invest more from less in the surrounding suburbs.

Really hard to see the viable long term strategy in investing solely in the inner western suburbs, competing against multiple clubs in a national competition when other clubs are spreading themselves across multiple regions, all the while hoping we eventually make more money from these low drawing games at Etihad.

Oh and btw the outer west is now outgrowing Cranbourne

 

[lachy]

Why is lack of capacity relevant, and a reason not to hold H&A games there, unless the games are a sell out and people are being turned back? The answer is it’s not. That doesn’t make any sense.



Your experience is noted, but you've repeatedly advocated selling the game to far-flung locations based entirely on the flimsy assumption that "mystery money > Ballarat money". What are you basing that on? If Ballarat is the best monetary deal that the club can get then it's the definition of a no-brainer.



Again, the current capacity is sufficient for present purposes. Also, despite one poster saying that one school in Point Cook wasn't visited, the club puts a lot of time into Wyndham City.

Your suggestions are good.



Back to the irrelevant seating capacity issue... You obviously aren't aware that stadium capacity is actually being expanded over time.



This game is being held at 3:20pm on a Sunday afternoon. Perhaps an earlier time would be better. But people from the region will be able to attend the game and be home for dinner. Your gripe doesn't make sense, unless you think the purpose of the game is

It seems you're advocating an approach whereby the club sells games interstate or overseas while dipping its toe into Ballarat until the stadium expands in a number of years, despite the capacity being no impediment whatsoever to holding H&A games there. You seem hung up on the idea that playing games in Ballarat should primarily cater to Melbourne based supporters, despite wanting to sell games interstate. It's a completely contradictory position.

Playing H&A games there doesn't detract from the strategy in Ballarat in any way and I'm amazed someone with your experience can't see that it actually adds more value than pre-season games (your suggestion) that even hardcore supporters probably wouldn't bother attending. Pre-season camps, etc, can still take place in addition to H&A games.

You've got a couple of decent thoughts in there independently, but a lot of what you're raising is either irrelevant or nonsensical.

The lack of capacity is relevant as there is no way to cator for current seat holding members let alone members

Ballarat is not the best monetary deal, China, India and Cairns plus many more provide better one off money opportunity

The club puts no more money and time into Wyndham than North or Geelong

Once the capacity is sufficient then at the right time with the right scheduling and support from the AFL this MAY work for 2 games but it is no where near ready for more than JLT yet

In 2 years the game has not been close to a sell out so local people at this stage have little to no interest unless they are already doggies fans

Playing Home and Away games does detract from current members in a big way and they are proving that with attendance. We have a reasonably good average attendance at Etihad yet cannot get 5,000 current supporters to Ballarat and never will unless Ballarat is part of our membership package and can cater for our actual members.

You want proof, already had 3 games there and they have been an embarrassment for our club. Cannot go close to selling out an 11,000 capacity ground 1 hour from home with 40,000 plus members.

Beleive the propaganda amd marketing spin all you like. Unless proper groundwork including capacity and proper AFL support is provided this experiment will not only fail it will cost a hell of alpt more than 2 15,000 to 25,000 additional crowds at Etihad

 

[Mattdougie]

Point Cook
Tarneit
Truganina
Melton

All in the top 20 fastest growing suburbs in Australia.

Norf depends more time in the forst three and Essendon in Melton than us.

Young families and immigrants are the core of these suburbs yet some still maintain spending the next 20 years TRYING/HOPING to build something in a country town is a better option!!!!

The Ballarat experiment has failed, a good business will realise this and admit defeat, a bad one will dig its heels in and try and prove the world wrong.

 

[lachy]

Point Cook
Tarneit
Truganina
Melton

All in the top 20 fastest growing suburbs in Australia.

Norf depends more time in the forst three and Essendon in Melton than us.

Young families and immigrants are the core of these suburbs yet some still maintain spending the next 20 years TRYING/HOPING to build something in a country town is a better option!!!!

The Ballarat experiment has failed, a good business will realise this and admit defeat, a bad one will dig its heels in and try and prove the world wrong.

You missed Wydhamvale, Manor Lakes, and older outer west such as Werribee, Hoppers Crossing, Rockbank, Caroline Springs and all new suburbs too many to mention growing in the region

Its not so much the Ballarat Experiment is wrong it is more allocating resources away from areas expanding more rapidly growing in our own backyard

 

[cecil]

Does anyone have solid data on school visits per region/by club? Would be interesting to see!

You'd think with the success of our womens team it means we should have a greater reach into schools. No reason why 2 AFL players can't go with 1 of the AFLW players. Effectively boosting our reach by 50%.

 

[Dogs 13]

I don't know a single member who has been to a Ballarat game or wants to go to one. Everyone I speak to about it is of the same opinion, it's just getting good loyal members, who attend most Etihad games, offside.

 

[dogwatch]

I don't know a single member who has been to a Ballarat game or wants to go to one. Everyone I speak to about it is of the same opinion, it's just getting good loyal members, who attend most Etihad games, offside.

Hi, let me introduce myself. I'm dogwatch and I'm a WB member. I'd like to go to a Ballarat game as I have friends in the area so I could easily justify the trip. It's just that I need to be able to plan the 1300 km round trip and let my friends make up a bed for me and Mrs dogwatch. I would happily shell out a few pineapples to enjoy my stay in the area too.

Up until now I haven't even bothered thinking about it because the word last year was there wouldn't be enough capacity even for Vic-based members let alone interstaters like me. Now it turns out we can't fill the place so when I have a look at the 2019 fixture I might put a Ballarat game on the calendar.

Just thought you might like to know one who will attend. It's only 45 minutes further away from me than Etihad after all. No problem when you've driven from Canberra!

Also, don't members get replacement games at Etihad for any home games played at Ballarat? How do they differ from admission to regular homes games ... GA only? No side perks?

 

[DelRe]

Oh and btw the outer west is now outgrowing Cranbourne

I can only go from what the ABS says as an objective measure. If you have different stats so be it.

So another "crowd" under 7k. What part of the strategy is working at all again?

I don’t really understand why the argument against playing games in Ballarat involves a comparison with which suburbs are growing fast and why we should hold more clinics there (the Dogs do in fact participate in local primary school programs and Auskick which other clubs do not - but that’s only my anecdotal experience from the area). The Dogs can’t actually play in any of these areas as an alternative to Eithad. Hawthorn and North as the examples you mention demonstrate that you can do both.

You call Etihad now a ‘short term’ loss of money but it would in fact be long term - as in we’d continue playing there.

The comparison should just be would you rather play at Etihad making less money or play somewhere else? If somewhere else then where. If you prefer Etihad so be it, that’s where we’d disagree.

Trying to draw where the clubs invest in local community groups and clinics in it is distracting from the actual question.

Funnily enough I’m not actually advocating for Ballarat necessarily and in fact would be selfishly happy to play at WO but the arguments being put forward against Ballarat are just poorly made.

 

[TiAn_]

I can only go from what the ABS says as an objective measure. If you have different stats so be it.


I don’t really understand why the argument against playing games in Ballarat involves a comparison with which suburbs are growing fast and why we should hold more clinics there (the Dogs do in fact participate in local primary school programs and Auskick which other clubs do not - but that’s only my anecdotal experience from the area). The Dogs can’t actually play in any of these areas as an alternative to Eithad. Hawthorn and North as the examples you mention demonstrate that you can do both.

You call Etihad now a ‘short term’ loss of money but it would in fact be long term - as in we’d continue playing there.

The comparison should just be would you rather play at Etihad making less money or play somewhere else? If somewhere else then where. If you prefer Etihad so be it, that’s where we’d disagree.

Trying to draw where the clubs invest in local community groups and clinics in it is distracting from the actual question.

Funnily enough I’m not actually advocating for Ballarat necessarily and in fact would be selfishly happy to play at WO but the arguments being put forward against Ballarat are just poorly made.

You’re not going to get a logical response.

Apparently the half capacity crowds are due to lack of capacity (lol). And rapidly dropping crowds in Cairns where members can’t attend and there’s zero prospect of genuinely expanding our geographical reach would be better than similar crowds in Ballarat where members can attend and it’s within our extended geographical region.

Like you, I’m probably coming across as more of a supporter of the Ballarat games than I really am, it’s just the abject stupidity of some of the arguments against it that prompts me to respond.

 

[lachy]

You’re not going to get a logical response.

Apparently the half capacity crowds are due to lack of capacity (lol). And rapidly dropping crowds in Cairns where members can’t attend and there’s zero prospect of genuinely expanding our geographical reach would be better than similar crowds in Ballarat where members can attend and it’s within our extended geographical region.

Like you, I’m probably coming across as more of a supporter of the Ballarat games than I really am, it’s just the abject stupidity of some of the arguments against it that prompts me to respond.

Abject stupidity when you cannot provide one iota of evidence that this is any more than a short term cash grab or a very poorly structered and executed strategy to grow our support base. Ok

 

[lachy]

I can only go from what the ABS says as an objective measure. If you have different stats so be it.


I don’t really understand why the argument against playing games in Ballarat involves a comparison with which suburbs are growing fast and why we should hold more clinics there (the Dogs do in fact participate in local primary school programs and Auskick which other clubs do not - but that’s only my anecdotal experience from the area). The Dogs can’t actually play in any of these areas as an alternative to Eithad. Hawthorn and North as the examples you mention demonstrate that you can do both.

You call Etihad now a ‘short term’ loss of money but it would in fact be long term - as in we’d continue playing there.

The comparison should just be would you rather play at Etihad making less money or play somewhere else? If somewhere else then where. If you prefer Etihad so be it, that’s where we’d disagree.

Trying to draw where the clubs invest in local community groups and clinics in it is distracting from the actual question.

Funnily enough I’m not actually advocating for Ballarat necessarily and in fact would be selfishly happy to play at WO but the arguments being put forward against Ballarat are just poorly made.

As an interst why are those against our current strategy making poorly made arguments yet there is yet to be one genuinely backed up by any evidence, made argument for it?

 

[lachy]

You’re not going to get a logical response.

Apparently the half capacity crowds are due to lack of capacity (lol). And rapidly dropping crowds in Cairns where members can’t attend and there’s zero prospect of genuinely expanding our geographical reach would be better than similar crowds in Ballarat where members can attend and it’s within our extended geographical region.

Like you, I’m probably coming across as more of a supporter of the Ballarat games than I really am, it’s just the abject stupidity of some of the arguments against it that prompts me to respond.

And just on your lol about capacity. If playing the game in Ballarat is about growing our suppport base, and I mean playing a home and away game not the myriad of other opportunities all other clubs use to grow in regional areas, how dp we grow the base is there is no room for them. Worse as there is no room our current members are not going.

Mock all you like but if you can't see how poor the current strategy is thats ypur problem, I would prefer we make decisions with logical progression once KPI's at each step of the strategy are met

 

[Dogs Rule]

Tell you what is stupid? A fixture where our last 'home' game is Round 16. A lot of members/supporters have probably tuned out by now. Never happened before in my 30 odd years supporting the club. Dumb, dumb fixturing.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I'm interested to know if the club had any input into the scheduling of these games. I don't recall hearing any objections from them when the fixture was published.

Where is Peter Gordon these days???