Opinion The Bont years and team success

[Optimistic Dog]

I have seen several posts recently saying we are wasting the career of a generational player. This is hard to measure but I will try to do it in terms of premierships even though one player does not guarantee premiership success.


1 Flag minimum which we have but probably below par.

2 Flags is what we need I would be more than happy.

3 Flags would exceed expectations and would have us all in 7th heaven.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Had we won the whole thing in 2021 everything changes. He came within an inch of being a two time premiership player, norm smith medallist and Brownlow medallist, but walked away 0/3.

It will be a real shame if he can’t win another flag.

 

[maddog37]

He is and will be remembered as an all time great.

End thread.

 

[grassman75]

I have seen several posts recently saying we are wasting the career of a generational player. This is hard to measure but I will try to do it in terms of premierships even though one player does not guarantee premiership success.


1 Flag minimum which we have but probably below par.

2 Flags is what we need I would be more than happy.

3 Flags would exceed expectations and would have us all in 7th heaven.

The AFL is set up with equalisation in theory for teams to win a flag once every 18 years. Now this doesn’t happen in practice, but we’ve had two shots at it in the Bont era for a 50-50 result. If we were to win another one before he retired I think that would be more than satisfactory

 

[Optimistic Dog]

He is and will be remembered as an all time great.

End thread.

Not sure how you can interpret this as devaluing The Bont when I said trying get the most team success from a generational player.

 

[maddog37]

Not sure how you can interpret this as devaluing The Bont when I said trying get the most team success from a generational player.

I reckon it is fairly disrespectful to hint at Bont having a wasted career.

 

[Golden_6]

The reality is that one great player has minimal effect on overall team success. We’ve seen all time greats in Buddy & GAJ leave whilst their clubs have won premierships in the following year.

We’ve somewhat wasted his time but one man can only do so much. Imagine if we had won the flag in 2021 and Bont had won the Norm. 45 minutes of football has changed this club and our perceptions to a significant level.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

I reckon it is fairly disrespectful to hint at Bont having a wasted career.

Mate I was quoting some recent posts. I take the posts as meaning The Bont is that good the team need to make the make the most it. How you can take this as being disrespectful to Marcus is a complete misreading of what has been said.

"I have seen several posts recently saying we are wasting the career of a generational player". This is hard to measure but I will try to do it in terms of premierships even though one player does not guarantee premiership success.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

You dont judge individuals in terms of premierships.

You judge teams by that metric.

 

[maddog37]

Mate I was quoting some recent posts. I take the posts as meaning The Bont is that good the team need to make the make the most it. How you can take this as being disrespectful to Marcus is a complete misreading of what has been said.

"I have seen several posts recently saying we are wasting the career of a generational player". This is hard to measure but I will try to do it in terms of premierships even though one player does not guarantee premiership success.

So imagine just for a moment you are talking to Bont and you get to ask him if he thinks we have wasted his career??

What do you think his response would be!?

I think it is a wank thread based on a stupid premise. Grand finals are bloody hard to win.

Having said that I am here posting in it so what does that say about me??

 

[Optimistic Dog]

So imagine just for a moment you are talking to Bont and you get to ask him if he thinks we have wasted his career??

What do you think his response would be!?

I think it is a wank thread based on a stupid premise. Grand finals are bloody hard to win.

Having said that I am here posting in it so what does that say about me??

Everyone to your own opinion. I do not believe the dogs have wasted the Bonts greatest because we have 1 flag. It was said the cats wasted Gary Ablett's senior greatest by not winning a flag.

 

[MaxiBont]

Had we of won the whole thing in 2021 everything changes. He came within an inch of being a two time premiership player, norm smith medallist and Brownlow medallist, but walked away 0/3.

It will be a real shame if he can’t win another flag.

Those last 4 games of the season ****ed his Brownlow season I’m still not over it. Ollie wines isn’t even fit to lace Bont’s boots.

 

[dogwatch]

Those last 4 games of the season ****ed his Brownlow season I’m still not over it. Ollie wines isn’t even fit to lace Bont’s boots.

That itself is a fair indictment of the Brownlow isn’t it?

In a just world it would be relegated to minor award status - as a popularity contest conducted by journos and their uncritical acolytes (the umpiring brigade).

 

[_Mike_]

IMO more of the disappointment comes to the club as a whole not being able to win another premiership within a few years after 2016, given the list and talent on the team.

Unfortunately we just havent been able to continue with a combination of a good depth, luck with injuries and everything falling into place for various reasons.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Those last 4 games of the season ****ed his Brownlow season I’m still not over it. Ollie wines isn’t even fit to lace Bont’s boots.

agree 100%. Wines v Bont… it’s like comparing a piece of dog s**t to a bar of gold… and I actually think Wines is a good player

 

[tonzdogs]

There’s only one bloke wasting it his name is Beveridge

 

[Frewy]

Everyone to your own opinion. I do not believe the dogs have wasted the Bonts greatest because we have 1 flag. It was said the cats wasted Gary Ablett's senior greatest by not winning a flag.

I agree. I just did the current best team of the 21st century and Buckley is still there without a flag. Bont wouldn't even need his flag the way he his tracking anyway with his resume. The only player I don't think he could go past this century so far is Gary Ablett Jnr, but there is always a chance.

Ironically one Clayton Oliver is then nipping at Bont's heels if he stays healthy and so the wheel turns. Either way I think the Bont will end up the greatest Dog we have ever seen by the end of his career and if he does there is a good chance he will probably also be in the greatest team of the 21st century.

Edit: Greatest Dog we have ever seen in the professional era by the end of his career, amateur and AFL are apples and oranges.

 

[brmi]

I'd say Bont is already the greatest Bulldog of recent decades, possibly all time.

I desperately hope we win another flag while Bont is captain.

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

I'd say Bont is already the greatest Bulldog of recent decades, possibly all time.

I desperately hope we win another flag while Bont is captain.

For me personally, having seen Hawkins in his prime and Chris Grant's career, I have Grant ahead of Bont for Bulldog players that I've witnessed. Grant was playing in a harder position to take over games as a CHF, and he was just unlucky to be playing at the same time as Carey to be considered the best CHF in the game.

Bont is easily the best player we've had since 2000, no question. I just feel like 95-99 Chris Grant was on another level. Would just take over games and put us on his back. Not easy to do against some of the elite 90s defenders.

 

[geoffjennings79]

For me personally, having seen Hawkins in his prime and Chris Grant's career, I have Grant ahead of Bont for Bulldog players that I've witnessed. Grant was playing in a harder position to take over games as a CHF, and he was just unlucky to be playing at the same time as Carey to be considered the best CHF in the game.

Bont is easily the best player we've had since 2000, no question. I just feel like 95-99 Chris Grant was on another level. Would just take over games and put us on his back. Not easy to do against some of the elite 90s defenders.

Wayne Carey is on record that 96 Chris Grant was one of his hardest ever opponents.

Grant got 3 Brownlow votes in r10 vs North (our home game but played at the G). He and Carey were direct opponents all day - Carey 13 disposals, scored 1.1, Grant 18 disposals and controlled almost every contest between them.

Unfortunately Daniltchenko bobbed up with 5 goals for them, Osborne broke his arm(?) early (never made it back that season then went to Pies), and we lost by 20 points.

Agree Grant was at his peak in those years, but I'd have he and Bont on par. In fact I'd hesitate to separate peak Bont, Grant, Hawkins, Dempsey and Templeton. In different circumstances, they all carried teams on their backs yet still were in the best week after week. In a parallel universe they'd possibly all be Brownlow medallists too - Bont and Grant twice, but luck/Ian Collins/2 late season fadeouts say otherwise. Plus Hawk argued too much, which one ex umpire years ago told me definitely cost him votes. And he had Brad Hardie as a team-mate in possibly his best ever season. Bulldog 'luck' at its best/worst.

 

[grassman75]

Wayne Carey is on record that 96 Chris Grant was one of his hardest ever opponents.

Grant got 3 Brownlow votes in r10 vs North (our home game but played at the G). He and Carey were direct opponents all day - Carey 13 disposals, scored 1.1, Grant 18 disposals and controlled almost every contest between them.

Unfortunately Daniltchenko bobbed up with 5 goals for them, Osborne broke his arm(?) early (never made it back that season then went to Pies), and we lost by 20 points.

Agree Grant was at his peak in those years, but I'd have he and Bont on par. In fact I'd hesitate to separate peak Bont, Grant, Hawkins, Dempsey and Templeton. In different circumstances, they all carried teams on their backs yet still were in the best week after week. In a parallel universe they'd possibly all be Brownlow medallists too - Bont and Grant twice, but luck/Ian Collins/2 late season fadeouts say otherwise. Plus Hawk argued too much, which one ex umpire years ago told me definitely cost him votes. And he had Brad Hardie as a team-mate in possibly his best ever season. Bulldog 'luck' at its best/worst.

Wow…so the Majak Daw medal should really be called the Kristian Daniltchenko medal then.

what it is with Norf (and other teams s.) players like that always play career best games against us?