Autopsy Round 4, 2019: St.Kilda v Hawthorn *BLUE RIBBON CUP*

[MrFoster]

Looking at Scully running around and considering what hawks paid for him is ridiculous. They got Scrimshaw for peanuts too. I wonder how they manage to pull these trades every year..

Because they have been the most successful team for the last 6-8 year period? The hawks also have a top coach, a good development system and playing group with big membership support. Players are willing to take slightly less to be on a winning team. We just need to become more successful on the field in order to compete.

For what is worth.. We also did well out of trades.. Bruce (pick 48); Membrey (free); Roberton (free); Kent (pick 50s); Hannerbury (effectively pick 39 if we finish just outside 8); Austin (4th round); Carlise (1st round receiving Gresham back); Steele (2nd round); and the trade where got us Long (2nd round) & Battle (2nd round) for free. Out of the list, only Austin and Kent are yet to become consistent players.

 

[gringo2011]

Astute observation.
We won yesterday off the back of sheer fitness.
Hawks hit the wall before 3/4 time and we kept going.

I thought we were nuts playing slow possession ball in the first half- but now i think it was a deliberate ploy to conserve energy to run like mad in the 2nd half.

We nearly let it go too far giving them a 4-5 goal lead, but i think it's a solid plan.

Lethers was right about our fitness being right up there with the best in the league- i like that we seem to be using it in a much smarter way this year.

Willingness to compete and put bodies on the line was back too. You can be fit and soft, we are back to making every ball a battle. Not many sides like to come up against it either. I was listening to someone discussing Melbourne trying to go from fast footy that wins most games of footy, to a more finals style of maintaining possession and slowing things up. The really good thing is the style we are playing stacks up, we can defend a small lead, we can play on our terms and tempo etc. There is a lot to like about us this year.

 

[gringo2011]

Long was pretty impressive, not big stats but we need quick outside players who can impact a game. Shame about the hairdo though.

I love his hair, he looks like a 80s street hood. Needs a Michael Jackson style red leather jacket with no shirt under it and a switch blade to top the look off.

 

[gringo2011]

Was very influential in the first quarter and into the 2nd, but died right out of it as the game wore on.

Disposals per quarter were 5, 3, 2, 1, so will hopefully be better for the run.

Will be bloody good if he starts putting in 4 quarter games down the track.

Was the same in his GC game too, lost momentum as the game wore on.

 

[Mindtraveller]

Savages kicking seems overrated.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Lol, for all this immense crying about Hawthorn being down to 2 on the bench and so-on for a chunk of the game, I just looked at the TOG numbers and Hawthorn only had two who played less than 70% of the game.

Frawley played 31% and Stratton 60%.

While for us McKenzie played 33% and Parker (went off with a big limp in the 2nd quarter, but eventually returned) played 66%.

So from a purely rotations POV both sides were in almost identical positions and apparently Hawthorn actually had more rotations than us, so it's little to no excuse.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn

 

[Jade Buddha]

I think they inherited Scully's huge salary as well which was a risk, but it turns out he made it onto the track quicker than Hannebrey. Scrimshaw is the real bargain given he is a projected midfielder also. They would have to be concerned about Wingard though he was very poor on the weekend.

Living in South Australia I’ve got to see Wingate quite a bit.
Very talented but seriously overhyped
Don’ think Port were too upset to see him go

 

[saint66au]

Good old jigging saint lol. What a lunatic

Categorically NOT Jigging Saint, who is a mate of mine. The bloke you mean (and I know his name but not gonna out him here) is a different guy altogether

 

[MrFoster]

Savages kicking seems overrated.

I think it's because the position he is receiving the ball.... when he is in space.. his kicking is very precise and can hit a target consistently... but when we handballed to him in traffic/or tucked in the boundary line.. he has nowhere to run and needs to hoof it long down the line.. Savage needs to be a little smarter about his runs... pick open spaces where he can make more of an impact and hit a target, or at worst kick to a teammate's advantage.

 

[Premium]

GOAT with a game-high 17 disposals in the 2nd half (most of which I imagine were in the last quarter and a half).

His 26 overall disposals were at 88% efficiency and he had a game-high 9 score involvements and two score assists.

So glad they stuck with him and dropped Dunstan instead- no offence to him. Has so much more potential upside- not to mention flexibility.

Aussie , this guy is a player that can actually turn a game off his own boot , he is the type of player that will help us come to our full potential , would love him to start getting more midfield time.
With Acres , Steele , Billings and Gresham we now have definite game changers.

 

[Joffaboy]

We heard a lot pre season how the club had been changed by Satan's review.

Brought in some high profile assistants, Gubby Allen, a new contracts guy and took some pressure off the head coach. Billy Slater was slagged as a stunt.

Went into trading with a plan, got Hanners and Kent and got back into the draft early. This has yet to pay dividends Hanners injured, Kent not setting the world on fire.

Drafting day, got King and Bytel @ 41. Both long termers, but getting the mature bods of Parker, Hind, and Young and wilkie as a rookie has paid dividends already.

Training pre Christmas, intense but very good spirited. Anyone down there could see how different training was.

Then after Christmas things turned sour, Hanners cant get fit, Carlisle's back requires surgery, same with Bytel, Jack Steven suffering and needs to leave the club.
Preseason training after Christmas seems just as good spirited with the players.

Our publicity stunt coach drills the players in tackling drills and it is very impressive. Coaches encouraging each other.

JLT, we start off well, out tackling North and Bulldogs, our publicity stunt already paying off.

But then Paddy, goes down AGAIN with concussion and Robbo looks finished.

The club is framed as having a horror preseason and many tip bottom four.

The club itself however carries on as before even though they are missing, Stuv, Hanners, Jake, and Robbo.

First month 3 -1.

As stated the club made noises to us it was a different Saints, we all said the proof would be on the field.

Early days, but they are practicing what they preached.

The change from last season is remarkable in playing style and players.

Lethers should be lauded for the review as the club should for getting the new personnel.

 

[okeydoke7]

Outstanding result.

Some observations:

1) Jack Billings was amazing. I’ve been critical of him (even in some of his good games) for coasting on defensive transition and for avoiding some contests. He was a beast yesterday. Won so much contested ball, put himself in the hole and at one stage went back with the flight and took a gutsy mark. That performance is what he is capable of and if he maintains the ferocity he will be one of the game’s best players.

2) Tremendous to win with no impact from Membrey and limited impact from Bruce (although he contested well when outnumbered)

3) Proud of the fight back from 26 down. We really did look done.

4) Structurally, Hawthorn dominated us for a small period. It seemed as if they had more numbers around the ball AND behind play. In reality, they had just dropped one behind play. We were not backing our teammates to win the ball and too many saints were going to the contest, leaving us no outside options. It meant that when we did get it, we had to bomb it out of the pack without composure, playing straight into the Hawk’s hands. We figured it out for ourselves when everything seemed lost and we started trusting our boys to win the contest. It meant we then had numbers out the back of the contest to feed it to by hand, and these numbers had more time and space to maintain possession and transition the ball forward. And once it clicked, it really clicked. We should’ve scored more in the last quarter as we dominated it.

5) I feel as though we are getting a tough run with the media. The coverage of our win over Gold Coast was pretty negative. The Essendon game was all about them. The Freo coverage was non existent. The Hawks win is all about O’Meara, Shiels, Burgoyne, Mitchell and their in game injuries. Ignoring the fact Steven, Carlisle, Roberton, Hanners, McCartin and Geary were out for the saints and we also copped I’m game injuries. Total interchanges were about even for both teams. It was a great win.

I’m proud. I’m pleasantly surprised. And the tackling intensity and pressure is what is keeping us in games and helping us win games.

 

[By a Point]

We heard a lot pre season how the club had been changed by Satan's review.

Brought in some high profile assistants, Gubby Allen, a new contracts guy and took some pressure off the head coach. Billy Slater was slagged as a stunt.

Went into trading with a plan, got Hanners and Kent and got back into the draft early. This has yet to pay dividends Hanners injured, Kent not setting the world on fire.

Drafting day, got King and Bytel @ 41. Both long termers, but getting the mature bods of Parker, Hind, and Young and wilkie as a rookie has paid dividends already.

Training pre Christmas, intense but very good spirited. Anyone down there could see how different training was.

Then after Christmas things turned sour, Hanners cant get fit, Carlisle's back requires surgery, same with Bytel, Jack Steven suffering and needs to leave the club.
Preseason training after Christmas seems just as good spirited with the players.

Our publicity stunt coach drills the players in tackling drills and it is very impressive. Coaches encouraging each other.

JLT, we start off well, out tackling North and Bulldogs, our publicity stunt already paying off.

But then Paddy, goes down AGAIN with concussion and Robbo looks finished.

The club is framed as having a horror preseason and many tip bottom four.

The club itself however carries on as before even though they are missing, Stuv, Hanners, Jake, and Robbo.

First month 3 -1.

As stated the club made noises to us it was a different Saints, we all said the proof would be on the field.

Early days, but they are practicing what they preached.

The change from last season is remarkable in playing style and players.

Lethers should be lauded for the review as the club should for getting the new personnel.

excellent positive post

 

[Premium]

Our back line has really stood up this year so far and Battle and Wilkie have really filled the positions we never thought we could cover when Carlisle and Roberton obtained injuries.
McKenzie is another who doesn't get too many wrap's, the way he attack's the ball in the air is a asset when you are playing clubs with players like Stringer , DeGoey , Caddy who are very hard to match up on.
Also Brown hasn't set the world on fire but we need a beast to confront the tall's team's have.
Webster and Geary are our 2 mainstay's who hold the structure together , in all they do a fine job.

I don't know when Carlisle comes back but when he doe's he can be used as a swingman going from backline to forward line when needed causing massive problems for other teams.

We also have Paton , Hind , Marsh , Joyce , Austin , White who can also fill a void when needed - in all we are in pretty good shape.

 

[John2010362340]

Savages kicking seems overrated.

BOOOOOO

 

[Premium]

Outstanding result.

Some observations:

1) Jack Billings was amazing. I’ve been critical of him (even in some of his good games) for coasting on defensive transition and for avoiding some contests. He was a beast yesterday. Won so much contested ball, put himself in the hole and at one stage went back with the flight and took a gutsy mark. That performance is what he is capable of and if he maintains the ferocity he will be one of the game’s best players.

2) Tremendous to win with no impact from Membrey and limited impact from Bruce (although he contested well when outnumbered)

3) Proud of the fight back from 26 down. We really did look done.

4) Structurally, Hawthorn dominated us for a small period. It seemed as if they had more numbers around the ball AND behind play. In reality, they had just dropped one behind play. We were not backing our teammates to win the ball and too many saints were going to the contest, leaving us no outside options. It meant that when we did get it, we had to bomb it out of the pack without composure, playing straight into the Hawk’s hands. We figured it out for ourselves when everything seemed lost and we started trusting our boys to win the contest. It meant we then had numbers out the back of the contest to feed it to by hand, and these numbers had more time and space to maintain possession and transition the ball forward. And once it clicked, it really clicked. We should’ve scored more in the last quarter as we dominated it.

5) I feel as though we are getting a tough run with the media. The coverage of our win over Gold Coast was pretty negative. The Essendon game was all about them. The Freo coverage was non existent. The Hawks win is all about O’Meara, Shiels, Burgoyne, Mitchell and their in game injuries. Ignoring the fact Steven, Carlisle, Roberton, Hanners, McCartin and Geary were out for the saints and we also copped I’m game injuries. Total interchanges were about even for both teams. It was a great win.

I’m proud. I’m pleasantly surprised. And the tackling intensity and pressure is what is keeping us in games and helping us win games.

good game wrap up okeydoke

 

[bird_man]

Wow, didn't realise Sincs had a game-high (and career-high) 8 clearances, that's terrific!

Also had 6 tackles, with the only one on the ground to have more being Steele (7).

Can't remember who it was, but someone on here found it funny that Sinclair was going to be playing more time in the midfield in place of Dunstan.

Apparently too soft and can't find the hard ball?

 

[Mindtraveller]

I think it's because the position he is receiving the ball.... when he is in space.. his kicking is very precise and can hit a target consistently... but when we handballed to him in traffic/or tucked in the boundary line.. he has nowhere to run and needs to hoof it long down the line.. Savage needs to be a little smarter about his runs... pick open spaces where he can make more of an impact and hit a target, or at worst kick to a teammate's advantage.

I think it's more. He is a good kick over the shorter distances, and able to nail passes, just seems he's more than happy to bomb it and it doesn't seem to our advantage

 

[plugger66]

Aussie , this guy is a player that can actually turn a game off his own boot , he is the type of player that will help us come to our full potential , would love him to start getting more midfield time.
With Acres , Steele , Billings and Gresham we now have definite game changers.

Just out of interest who do you think should play midfield and for how long. Not including the wing and lets just say Steven is playing.

 

[Premium]

We heard a lot pre season how the club had been changed by Satan's review.

Brought in some high profile assistants, Gubby Allen, a new contracts guy and took some pressure off the head coach. Billy Slater was slagged as a stunt.

Went into trading with a plan, got Hanners and Kent and got back into the draft early. This has yet to pay dividends Hanners injured, Kent not setting the world on fire.

Drafting day, got King and Bytel @ 41. Both long termers, but getting the mature bods of Parker, Hind, and Young and wilkie as a rookie has paid dividends already.

Training pre Christmas, intense but very good spirited. Anyone down there could see how different training was.

Then after Christmas things turned sour, Hanners cant get fit, Carlisle's back requires surgery, same with Bytel, Jack Steven suffering and needs to leave the club.
Preseason training after Christmas seems just as good spirited with the players.

Our publicity stunt coach drills the players in tackling drills and it is very impressive. Coaches encouraging each other.

JLT, we start off well, out tackling North and Bulldogs, our publicity stunt already paying off.

But then Paddy, goes down AGAIN with concussion and Robbo looks finished.

The club is framed as having a horror preseason and many tip bottom four.

The club itself however carries on as before even though they are missing, Stuv, Hanners, Jake, and Robbo.

First month 3 -1.

As stated the club made noises to us it was a different Saints, we all said the proof would be on the field.

Early days, but they are practicing what they preached.

The change from last season is remarkable in playing style and players.

Lethers should be lauded for the review as the club should for getting the new personnel.

Great post Joffa , the believe is growing within the club and with these young kids winning games the confidence is growing that they now know they can compete with everyone.

 

[bird_man]

Saints had the top 4 coaches votes despite the narrow win

Ross - 10
Lonie - 6
Billings - 4
Marshall - 4

 

[Persevering Saint]

Wow, didn't realise Sincs had a game-high (and career-high) 8 clearances, that's terrific!

Also had 6 tackles, with the only one on the ground to have more being Steele (7).

A few of us had said it: having Lucky in there was stopping players like Ross and Sincs from playing a role they're well suited for. We saw them playing that role yesterday.

 

[Premium]

Just out of interest who do you think should play midfield and for how long. Not including the wing and lets just say Steven is playing.

Steele , Ross , Steven / Gresham , Acres - to me these are the main 5

 

[Snailspace13]

Lmao gee whiz the Hawks board having a sook about the umpires...

what did they have to say about the 2 Deliberate out of Bounds that we didnt receive in the 1st Half,that were both in our Forward 50.

 

[Snailspace13]

Please no. It was a great win but there is still so much that needs to be done. Steven in for Kent and if match fitness is an issue then Steven can be 50/50 mid and forward or whatever works for him.

Hind for DMac if he's out seems fairly obvious.

Geary