Religion Folau

[Kwality]

Because he's the Prime Minister of Australia for f***'s sake and it is an issue which is deviding this country and seeing that he is always banging on about religion, he should tell us where he stands on this issue so we can all make up our minds just what kind of a person our Prime Minister is.

If RA hadnt been so reactive to the Folau issue both points of view can be accomodated, e.g all the Rugger types knew what Folau thought * before this, & could live with it, but RA were more interested in the dollars of their sponsorship, certainly didnt give one seconds thought of inclusivity.

* does anyone not know what Morrison thinks, he's not one of the complete hypocrites who go to Church at Easter & Christmas.

i'd say Morrison can accept both points of view & doesnt see any need to choose one over the other, its not hard to be inclusive, just so many want to divide by virtue signalling to the extremes.

Its not as if Gary Ablett is the only Christian playing AFL footy & those views are accomodated without angst.

 

[Kurve]

Quoting that homosexual is a sin is not an attack or descriminatory according to British courts

The CEO of rugby A views on the bible are extraordinary

Look elsewhere to be offended.

Nothing to get all excited about here from my reading. Ngole is framing it as a victory and the press is making a meal out of it but the court dismissed the majority of his appeal upholding only one aspect on early procedural processes.

It said this could never be proportionate and went beyond the relevant HCPC guidance on the use of social media, which said that it was permissible to post your personal views but that action may need to be taken if they were “offensive, for example if they were racist or sexually explicit”.

The court also found that at no point did the university make it clear that it was the manner and language in which Ngole expressed his views – not the expression of them per se – that was the problem, not was he offered guidance on how he may express them more moderately.

It concluded: “This Court cannot finally determine whether the Appellant would have resisted the possibility of tempering the expression of his views or would have refused to accept guidance which would resolve the problem. This requires new findings of fact. This case should, therefore, be remitted for a new hearing before a differently constituted [fitness to practise] Committee.”

Student wins appeal against removal from social work course over anti-homosexuality Facebook posts - Community Care

A man who was expelled from a social work course after making a series of Facebook hosts that labelled homosexuality as a 'sin' and 'wicked' has won an appeal against the decision to remove him.

www.communitycare.co.uk

 

[Slartibartfast]

If RA hadnt been so reactive to the Folau issue both points of view can be accomodated, e.g all the Rugger types knew what Folau thought * before this, & could live with it, but RA were more interested in the dollars of their sponsorship, certainly didnt give one seconds thought of inclusivity.

* does anyone not know what Morrison thinks, he's not one of the complete hypocrites who go to Church at Easter & Christmas.

i'd say Morrison can accept both points of view & doesnt see any need to choose one over the other, its not hard to be inclusive, just so many want to divide by virtue signalling to the extremes.

Its not as if Gary Ablett is the only Christian playing AFL footy & those views are accomodated without angst.

RA were not reactive at all, quite the contrary.

The previous years he did the same thing, RA tried to work with him and gave him absolute notice that his words were an issue.
Issy could have framed his comments so they were not offensive but again he chose the be provocative and in your face.
He forced theirhand and they were obliged to comment and respond.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Just look it up or research it. Universities and all that. Church was a huge player in the the development of modern science.
Science has only recently paid its own bills that sort of thing. A bit modern but the guy who came up with the Big Bang theory was a priest.

Causality ... what institution was set up for people to sit around think , ponder etc.

Here’s a snippet of something “ In its historical roots and traditions the Vatican Observatory is one of the oldest astronomical institutes in the world. For the first foreshadowing of the Observatory can be traced to the constitution by Pope Gregory XIII of a committee to study the scientific data and implications involved in the reform of the calendar which occurred in 1582. The committee included Father Christoph Clavius, a Jesuit mathematician from the Roman College, who expounded and explained the reform. From that time and with some degree of continuity the Papacy has manifested an interest in and support for astronomical research. “

They had most of the money, why do you think artists painted the wealthy and not the poor.
Neeeeeexxxxxxtttttt

 

[Kwality]

RA were not reactive at all, quite the contrary.

The previous years he did the same thing, RA tried to work with him and gave him absolute notice that his words were an issue.
Issy could have framed his comments so they were not offensive but again he chose the be provocative and in your face.
He forced their hand and they were obliged to comment and respond.

Its a bit uncertain what happened after the earlier discussion, seems it didnt make his contract & thats why we are here today.
Then there was RA reporting to at least one of their sponsors as the RA chair was reported.

Roll on Folau v RA, black & white its not, lawyers at 10 paces .... we can call it as we like, the contract is what central not the why of the disagreement, it happened, the contract was pulled.
The awarding of damages & costs will be an almost bigger legal stoush.

 

[Kwality]

They had most of the money, why do you think artists painted the wealthy and not the poor.
Neeeeeexxxxxxtttttt

What has this got to do with Folau, zip, why dont you guys start your own thread?

 

[Sainteric]

They had most of the money, why do you think artists painted the wealthy and not the poor.
Neeeeeexxxxxxtttttt

St. Peter is everywhere the father of the law, Bologna is its mother

Motto of University of Bologna founded 1088

I am guessing none of RA Australia leadership went there.

 

[chelseacarlton]

What has this got to do with Folau, zip, why dont you guys start your own thread?

I was replying to a post from Boston tiger, “all the money” is definitely apart of Folau’s script however way we look at it, post is in the money.

 

[Kwality]

I was replying to a post from Boston tiger, “all the money” is definitely apart of Folau’s script however way we look at it, post is in the money.

Surprising what you can find if you are looking ....

 

[Slartibartfast]

Its a bit uncertain what happened after the earlier discussion, seems it didnt make his contract & thats why we are here today.
Then there was RA reporting to at least one of their sponsors as the RA chair was reported.

Roll on Folau v RA, black & white its not, lawyers at 10 paces .... we can call it as we like, the contract is what central not the why of the disagreement, it happened, the contract was pulled.
The awarding of damages & costs will be an almost bigger legal stoush.

So RA were not reactive, not sure why you would even say that. If Issy had been repsonsible he could have held his beliefs and played rugby.
RA had their hand forced by Issy, a year after they first spoke to him about this. RA were extremely patient and tolerant of this intolerant person.

 

[Kwality]

So RA were not reactive, not sure why you would even say that. If Issy had been repsonsible he could have held his beliefs and played rugby.
RA had their hand forced by Issy, a year after they first spoke to him about this. RA were extremely patient and tolerant of this intolerant person.

Reactive this time*, didnt think & see where they are - contacting Qantas (IMHO) was silly, its not as if Mr Joyce is some shrinking violet.
IF RA did not document the original discussion, fodder for the lawyers. Was RA unilaterally able to alter the terms of the contract, was Folau asked to sign off on the contract ...

Bart, you a bit selective in the use of tolerant, what RA should have been is tolerant of the opposing views (christian & gay), its a bit rich to deny either view.


* didnt think it necessary to address in my earlier post, but since you ask ..

 

[Evolved1]

A multiplicity of foundational variables stretching back to Babylonian times will make this a futile search. Christianity didn’t cause human rights anymore than man’s ability to harness fire, or the invention of the wheel, causes a car to travel at 100km/h.

If your search is genuine, start with understanding cause vs factor; then hit the books - Gospel verses (Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11 etc) that outline the idea that all men are created equal, how these ideas found expression in the push by Christian groups like the Quakers to abolish slavery, Dr. Martin Luther Kings writings, or The Declaration of Independence. Read about the Protestant Reformation. About Mendel and the freedom being a Friar allowed in conducting his experiments, Gailelo’s motivation that to know the work of God was to know God, Carver’s identification of his Christian faith being the mechanism through which he pursued science.

You're looking at these discussion points through the angle of an apologist using pro-Christian rhetoric. I can argue that the strongest proponents of Western slavery were Christians, and they were completely justified taking that stance since their source material for ethics is the bible; refer Exodus 21:20-21, Exodus 21:2-6, Leviticus 25:44-46, Numbers 31:17-18 (sex slavery), Deuteronomy 20:10-14.

In the new testament, Jesus gave tacit support to slavery (Mt 18:23-25), and other NT writers urged slaves to serve their masters wholeheartedly (Ephesians 6:5-8, Colossians 3:22-24, 1Timothy 6:1-2, etc).

The Enlightenment and removing the yoke of Christianity led to the freedoms we have today. The fact that many Christians like Galileo and Mendel were responsible for great scientific discoveries is a moot point when it comes to arguing a link between xianity and science. In that time, Christianity was far more prominent in society than it is now, so naturally a large proportion of great minds were Christian. The church fought the advancement of science, and continues to do so, whenever it is in opposition to theological positions and values. How was Galileo treated by the church, for example?

Christian groups still seek to wield power and exert undue influence whenever possible. Look at the opposition to euthanasia, womens reproductive rights, gay marriage...every step of the way, the church is the largest obstacle in Western society to advancement in modern freedoms. In the US, 'God' is still infecting their money and their pledge of allegiance.

 

[Evolved1]

Actually, given this is about Christianity, best go for the New Testament, rather than the old.

One of the big problems with organised Christianity is the cherry picking of Old Testament verses where it suits, and the glossing over of Old Testament verses when it doesnt.

Jesus wasnt a fan organised religions. Any time 2 or more people gathered together to discuss God was a Church. Of course, the organised Christian groups dont like to think about it that way. Because maybe they arent then needed, and maybe they wont be able to rake in billions of dollars.

I'm not so sure about that. Do you have a link to words attributed to Jesus that justify that claim?

Some of the craziest churches I know of are small and independent. Oversight of religious groups through a hierarchical structure and educated religious figures seems to balance out the more extreme interpretations and lifestyles. While I'm no fan of organised religion, independent and unstructured religious groups can be a far greater problem.

 

[Kurve]

I'm not so sure about that. Do you have a link to words attributed to Jesus that justify that claim?

Some of the craziest churches I know of are small and independent. Oversight of religious groups through a hierarchical structure and educated religious figures seems to balance out the more extreme interpretations and lifestyles. While I'm no fan of organised religion, independent and unstructured religious groups can be a far greater problem.

You'll find it likely in the Gospel of Matthew. Jesus would be horrified at organised religion under the banner of christianity today.

 

[Evolved1]

Its a bit uncertain what happened after the earlier discussion, seems it didnt make his contract & thats why we are here today.
Then there was RA reporting to at least one of their sponsors as the RA chair was reported.

As far back as I can remember, sponsors have shared a public view on controversial issues that can be linked back to the club they are funding. It's a non-issue afaic...'but, but, sponsor CEO is gay!' Could Folau's supporters be any more obviously homophobic? I mean, they're not even trying to keep their homophobia under wraps.

Roll on Folau v RA, black & white its not, lawyers at 10 paces .... we can call it as we like, the contract is what central not the why of the disagreement, it happened, the contract was pulled.
The awarding of damages & costs will be an almost bigger legal stoush.

Do you think this will end in anything other than a confidential settlement? If so, I admire your optimism.

 

[Evolved1]

You'll find it likely in the Gospel of Matthew. Jesus would be horrified at organised religion under the banner of christianity today.

American fundamentalist Christianity, Hillsong/megachurches, Catholic church protectionism towards child abusers are all easy pickings that Jesus would have opposed, I agree. I don't recall any passage in which Jesus specifically opposed organised religion, but rather certain religious practices that were commonplace in his time.

There's a fine line. Even Hillsong pastor Brian Houston spoke out against Folau's tactics, and that's saying something.

Small independent church groups tend to have uneducated leaders who favour more extreme interpretations of the bible and source much of their bible knowledge by personal revelation over learning from the great minds of Christianity.

One Hillsong-esque megachurch is far less dangerous than 100 small fundie extremist churches. That's all I'm saying.

 

[HairyO]

I'm not so sure about that. Do you have a link to words attributed to Jesus that justify that claim?

Some of the craziest churches I know of are small and independent. Oversight of religious groups through a hierarchical structure and educated religious figures seems to balance out the more extreme interpretations and lifestyles. While I'm no fan of organised religion, independent and unstructured religious groups can be a far greater problem.

Overturning the tables of the sellers on the church grounds profiteering out of their religion would indicate he had a poor view.

 

[Kurve]

Overturning the tables of the sellers on the church grounds profiteering out of their religion would indicate he had a poor view.

He accused temple authorities of thieving. Crucified a week later iirc.

 

[Crankitup]

In the new testament, Jesus gave tacit support to slavery (Mt 18:23-25) ...

Are you serious? You don't know there's a difference between a slave and a servant?

A slave is someone who is the property of another person and has to work for that person.

A servant is someone who is employed to work at another person's home, for example as a cleaner or a gardener.

Collins Concise Dictionary

 

[Evolved1]

Overturning the tables of the sellers on the church grounds profiteering out of their religion would indicate he had a poor view.

That would only indicate he opposed one specific practice that opposed the core values of Judaism, not organised religion per se.

I'd find it easier to argue that he supported organised religion than opposed it. Remember he was a Jew who followed the tanakh in full...which in modern terms is 'how to build a theocracy, for dummies'.

 

[Evolved1]

View attachment 705916


Are you serious? You don't know there's a difference between a slave and a servant?





Collins Concise Dictionary

Link for idiots who think the new testament was originally written in English

Judging by your knowledge of the bible, I assume you're a Christian.

 

[Crankitup]

Link for idiots who think the new testament was originally written in English

Judging by your knowledge of the bible, I assume you're a Christian.

Wondered why it took you so long to respond. It takes a long time to cherry pick that well. NASB lexicon FFS.

 

[Evolved1]

Wondered why it took you so long to respond. Took you a long time to cherry pick that well. NASB lexicon FFS.

I'm not here 24/7.

If you have a different interpretation of the original Greek, I'm all ears. Save your English dictionary for church.

This is a good place to start

 

[HairyO]

That would only indicate he opposed one specific practice that opposed the core values of Judaism, not organised religion per se.

I'd find it easier to argue that he supported organised religion than opposed it. Remember he was a Jew who followed the tanakh in full...which in modern terms is 'how to build a theocracy, for dummies'.

I would say the primary goal of organised religions would be to make more money.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Reactive this time*, didnt think & see where they are - contacting Qantas (IMHO) was silly, its not as if Mr Joyce is some shrinking violet.
IF RA did not document the original discussion, fodder for the lawyers. Was RA unilaterally able to alter the terms of the contract, was Folau asked to sign off on the contract ...

Bart, you a bit selective in the use of tolerant, what RA should have been is tolerant of the opposing views (christian & gay), its a bit rich to deny either view.


* didnt think it necessary to address in my earlier post, but since you ask ..

Reactive this time??? Gee you back pedal slowly.

It is the same event that has been evolving over more than a year.
RA tried there best to make this go away quietly, he was spoken to without punishment then he continued to make silly comments that vilify homosexuals.
All this comes under the umbrella of “this time”. They have NOT been reactive, they were forced into acting. RA did not want this, they wanted Issy playing rugby.

RA have been so patient with him , they have tried. Shame Issy did not try too.