Toast Round 6 = Essendon 82-93 Collingwood

[nahnah]

Random q, where can you find the average age of a team each round? Was mentioned once about the age of the bombers and have been wondering ever since. Were they that much younger than our team today?

Here if you scroll down a bit on the right side:

AFL Match Statistics : Essendon defeated by Collingwood at MCG Round 6 Monday, 25th April 2022

Essendon defeated by Collingwood at MCG Round 6 Monday, 25th April 2022 AFL match statistics

www.footywire.com

They were a fair bit younger and much more inexperienced games played wise

 

[JB007]

Carlton with the ultimate pretender %

**** Carlton

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Random q, where can you find the average age of a team each round? Was mentioned once about the age of the bombers and have been wondering ever since. Were they that much younger than our team today?

We have a few outliers in Scott Pendlebury and Steel Sidebottom who have about 620 games between them. Without these two players the game difference is not that much.

EDIT replace those two with Poulter and Macrae and we have the more inexperienced team.

 

[Heater3923]

I agree that Moore is below his best.

I can’t agree that Madgen is copping it for being Madgen. He cops it because he constantly makes errors that lead to goals being conceded. He did one great thing today which was take a mark in defence, then made the correct decision quickly and moved the ball forward, which led to a goal. But he also constantly gave his opponents way too much space when he doesn’t have the foot speed to close the space like Moore and Howe do, and that led to at least 3-4 goals being conceded. That’s not a criticism because he’s Madgen. It’s a criticism of a player who doesn’t seem to know how to play to his limitations and makes the same mistakes over and over.

Do me a favour and do this exact assessment for each of our back six. They all gave up goals/scoring shots.

We gave up 22 scoring shots and 12 goals. So you seriously trying to pin 3 or 4 goals directly on Madgen?? Haha

Who were the other 8 goals we conceded fault then? How many you wanna blame on Moore or Howe etc when it’s the mids and HFFs not executing and working hard enough leaving the back 6 exposed?

Score involvements by our defenders:
Howe - 4
Magden - 4
Noble - 4
Quaynor - 3
Daicos - 3
Pendlebury - 1
Moore - 1

Funny how Magden was involved in 4 score involvements, so at least he (on a very basic assessment) balances it out.

You are welcome to your opinion of Magden. But I think it’s an inaccurate one. Off the top of my head I recall Moore and Quaynor (repeat offender for weeks) getting lost in our zone and costing us shots at goal today.

But I’ll review the tape with a clear mind without emotion, and let the tape tell the story - cause our midfield was belted and our half fwds pretty ordinary for 3/4s and letting it ping out of the fwd line. Same as it’s been since the Cats game.

Essendon took 17 marks inside 50. That was directly a result of our mids and HFFs not performing well today. Providing no pressure and failing to slow up Essendon and help out our defenders. It was not our defences fault for the poor 3 quarters. Nor is it fair to continually go after Magden when he is actual performing quite well this year.

He was the equal leader for score involvements from our defenders. Considering he only had 9 touches, he basically averaged a score involvement per 2 touches. That’s a pretty impressive stat for a defender with no talent. He clearly gets his possessions and had high disposal efficiency which lead directly to 4 Collingwood scores.

So for that I say to Magden - well done sir, keep up the good work.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Sounds like Nathan Kreuger has re-injured his left shoulder. Were there any other injuries?


Why not do Surgery 1st IF the Chances of him doing it again was High?

My guess is surgery was a worst case scenario and a last resort which may ruled him out prematurely without seeing whether the shoulder injury could be managed for the rest of the year.

Unfortunately it hasn't worked out and there's no other option but to have surgery. At least the club won't regret trying to bring him back early.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Carlton with the ultimate pretender %

Two wins by under a goal.

They're frauds.

 

[JB007]

Do me a favour and do this exact assessment for each of our back six. They all gave up goals/scoring shots.

We gave up 22 scoring shots and 12 goals. So you seriously trying to pin 3 or 4 goals directly on Madgen?? Haha

Who were the other 8 goals we conceded fault then? How many you wanna blame on Moore or Howe etc when it’s the mids and HFFs not executing and working hard enough leaving the back 6 exposed?

Score involvements by our defenders:
Howe - 4
Magden - 4
Noble - 4
Quaynor - 3
Daicos - 3
Pendlebury - 1
Moore - 1

Funny how Magden was involved in 4 score involvements, so at least he (on a very basic assessment) balances it out.

You are welcome to your opinion of Magden. But I think it’s an inaccurate one. Off the top of my head I recall Moore and Quaynor (repeat offender for weeks) getting lost in our zone and costing us shots at goal today.

But I’ll review the tape with a clear mind without emotion, and let the tape tell the story - cause our midfield was belted and our half fwds pretty ordinary for 3/4s and letting it ping out of the fwd line. Same as it’s been since the Cats game.

Essendon took 17 marks inside 50. That was directly a result of our mids and HFFs not performing well today. Providing no pressure and failing to slow up Essendon and help out our defenders. It was not our defences fault for the poor 3 quarters. Nor is it fair to continually go after Magden when he is actual performing quite well this year.

He was the equal leader for score involvements from our defenders. Considering he only had 9 touches, he basically averaged a score involvement per 2 touches. That’s a pretty impressive stat for a defender with no talent. He clearly gets his possessions and had high disposal efficiency which lead directly to 4 Collingwood scores.

So for that I say to Magden - well done sir, keep up the good work.

Nice post not signalling out any of our defenders but I think this year so far they haven’t respected their opponents…….tighten up in the next 6 games and we will be hard to beat this year.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I agree that Moore is below his best.

I can’t agree that Madgen is copping it for being Madgen. He cops it because he constantly makes errors that lead to goals being conceded. He did one great thing today which was take a mark in defence, then made the correct decision quickly and moved the ball forward, which led to a goal. But he also constantly gave his opponents way too much space when he doesn’t have the foot speed to close the space like Moore and Howe do, and that led to at least 3-4 goals being conceded. That’s not a criticism because he’s Madgen. It’s a criticism of a player who doesn’t seem to know how to play to his limitations and makes the same mistakes over and over.

Madge is having a pretty good season ytd. Hasn’t done too much wrong. That doesn’t stop posters from calling for his omission and for him to never play seniors again despite a complete lack ytd of a suitable replacement. That to me says he’s being judged with some significant bias and that it’s pretty obvious.

 

[Matrix10]

Reef needs to go back to vfl and stay as an inside mid. No point him playing seniors in the forward line. Let him develop and add size in the vfl

What does add size help with ? He has it. Needs to get some running endurance into his motor

 

[leon123]

Fly's post match presser (excluding the parts involving Jack Ginnivan):

What's Jack Ginnivan like to coach?


What did you think of the game?


When you turned up in October and got to work, was Jack Ginnivan in your best 22. Did you think he was capable of having this start of the season?


I felt there was a turning point when John Noble turned it over to Alec Waterman in the third quarter. His teammates got around him and straight after that he was in the middle and slotted it to Jack Ginnivan who kicked the goal.


Sounds like Nathan Kreuger has re-injured his left shoulder. Were there any other injuries?


Did you ever think you would be building a forward line around the likes of Jack Ginnivan. Despite all the talk of having a key full forward, you seem to have a mix that's working beautifully.


Last week you spoke about not accepting honourable losses. Are you impressed you got the result despite not having the best performance and willing yourself over the line?


How significant was Scott Pendlebury's last quarter, particularly with having the most clearances in the fourth quarter?


What did you think of Brodie Grundy's game? He was probably beaten for a large part early and didn't take a mark last week. He was influential in the last quarter and finished the game with 6 marks.


Will Kreuger's injury force you to have another look at Mason Cox?


With so much emphasis on Essendon prior to the game, did you have to say anything to the players or does the occasion of the day look after itself?

Post Match: McRae & Ginnivan

Hear from the coach and the Anzac Day medalist Jack Ginnivan after their side's win over the Bombers on Anzac Day.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

wow, from an outsider (supporter) observing, he appears a very mature, emotionally intelligent pragmatist. I think in time, really good things will result.

 

[Gaspard]

I guess I'm on my own, but I don't think Ginnivan should have been awarded the medal. I listened to the criteria just before it was announced, and he didn't satisfy many of them. I thought he was very good, and his scoring probably decided the match, but he didn't deserve the medal.
The team managed a great win, but urgently needs centre square improvement, and the forwards have a lot of work to do on their leading. It was so frustrating to see Nick Daicos begging someone to lead for him and get no response.
A win with so much not right was great, especially as Essendon were primed for maximum effort.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Do me a favour and do this exact assessment for each of our back six. They all gave up goals/scoring shots.

We gave up 22 scoring shots and 12 goals. So you seriously trying to pin 3 or 4 goals directly on Madgen?? Haha

Who were the other 8 goals we conceded fault then? How many you wanna blame on Moore or Howe etc when it’s the mids and HFFs not executing and working hard enough leaving the back 6 exposed?

Score involvements by our defenders:
Howe - 4
Magden - 4
Noble - 4
Quaynor - 3
Daicos - 3
Pendlebury - 1
Moore - 1

Funny how Magden was involved in 4 score involvements, so at least he (on a very basic assessment) balances it out.

You are welcome to your opinion of Magden. But I think it’s an inaccurate one. Off the top of my head I recall Moore and Quaynor (repeat offender for weeks) getting lost in our zone and costing us shots at goal today.

But I’ll review the tape with a clear mind without emotion, and let the tape tell the story - cause our midfield was belted and our half fwds pretty ordinary for 3/4s and letting it ping out of the fwd line. Same as it’s been since the Cats game.

Essendon took 17 marks inside 50. That was directly a result of our mids and HFFs not performing well today. Providing no pressure and failing to slow up Essendon and help out our defenders. It was not our defences fault for the poor 3 quarters. Nor is it fair to continually go after Magden when he is actual performing quite well this year.

He was the equal leader for score involvements from our defenders. Considering he only had 9 touches, he basically averaged a score involvement per 2 touches. That’s a pretty impressive stat for a defender with no talent. He clearly gets his possessions and had high disposal efficiency which lead directly to 4 Collingwood scores.

So for that I say to Magden - well done sir, keep up the good work.

I thought Madge struggled early with a few goals conceded in 1 v 1 contests and there were a few cases of him losing his man (or at least not chasing a forward) on leads that resulted in goals/score involvements. He was better later in the game and is disposal was quite good. So I can understand him being one of the first disposals at the start of a few goals.

 

[JB1975]

Do me a favour and do this exact assessment for each of our back six. They all gave up goals/scoring shots.

We gave up 22 scoring shots and 12 goals. So you seriously trying to pin 3 or 4 goals directly on Madgen?? Haha

Who were the other 8 goals we conceded fault then? How many you wanna blame on Moore or Howe etc when it’s the mids and HFFs not executing and working hard enough leaving the back 6 exposed?

Score involvements by our defenders:
Howe - 4
Magden - 4
Noble - 4
Quaynor - 3
Daicos - 3
Pendlebury - 1
Moore - 1

Funny how Magden was involved in 4 score involvements, so at least he (on a very basic assessment) balances it out.

You are welcome to your opinion of Magden. But I think it’s an inaccurate one. Off the top of my head I recall Moore and Quaynor (repeat offender for weeks) getting lost in our zone and costing us shots at goal today.

But I’ll review the tape with a clear mind without emotion, and let the tape tell the story - cause our midfield was belted and our half fwds pretty ordinary for 3/4s and letting it ping out of the fwd line. Same as it’s been since the Cats game.

Essendon took 17 marks inside 50. That was directly a result of our mids and HFFs not performing well today. Providing no pressure and failing to slow up Essendon and help out our defenders. It was not our defences fault for the poor 3 quarters. Nor is it fair to continually go after Magden when he is actual performing quite well this year.

He was the equal leader for score involvements from our defenders. Considering he only had 9 touches, he basically averaged a score involvement per 2 touches. That’s a pretty impressive stat for a defender with no talent. He clearly gets his possessions and had high disposal efficiency which lead directly to 4 Collingwood scores.

So for that I say to Magden - well done sir, keep up the good work.

If I may summarise, Madgen has a moral claim to the Anzac Day medal?

 

[Hazz]

Well done to the boys, great to see them get reward for effort. While I’d love to pick up another star with a high end draft pick at seasons end, on the other hand we’ve played some great footy and are right in the mix to have a crack at finals. At worst, we are entertaining enough to watch.

Winning can paper over cracks:

• my heart stopped when Grundy grabbed his knee. For all the crap I give him about effort across 4qtrs, if he misses a chunk of games we would be in huge trouble. Hopefully we dodged a bullet today.
• Typical Collingwood, we finally get in an athletic tall who looks good forward, can take nice marks, give good contest, and is aggressive at the ball, unfortunately he’s made of glass. Get well soon Freddy (Sonia?).
• Cal had 4 possies and 3 tackles in 50% game time. Out of position and tough coming in as a sub yes, but he was literally unsighted on TV. In my view Hos should be the medi sub every other week and never the one dimensional Brown bros, Hos is versatile and you’re still likely to get his standard 10 touches in a half. Simples.
• Steele, love the guy and will always be in my favs, but geez he lacks a second effort defensively, sometimes even a first effort. Not sure what to do with him, feels too slow for the wing, disposal is getting worse (14 @ 57% today, and not even obviously difficult disposals either). Previously I’d say stick him in the forward line, but all of a sudden there’s no space, maybe Reef out, but I liked his lead mark efforts last week so either he or Henry are preferred there. Hate to see Steele out of the team but his best is getting less frequent. Sad days.
• Reef, living off a few good things from last week, but he was unsighted today. Not helped by our “bomb it to their hive of defenders” forward entries. I was waiting for him to be hit up on his burst lead but didn’t see one today. Not sure if that was the lack of leading or or mids lack of vision. Can still offer more so hopefully better next week.
• obligatory Darcy Cameron
  14

  Darcy Cameron

  Age

  30

  Ht

  204cm

  Wt

  103kg

  Pos.

  Ruck

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  6.0

  1star

  K

  3.3

  1star

  HB

  2.7

  2star

  CL

  0.3

  2star

  HO

  5.3

  5star

  D

  7.5

  2star

  K

  4.5

  2star

  HB

  3.0

  2star

  CL

  0.5

  3star

  HO

  3.5

  5star

  D

  6.0

  2star

  K

  3.3

  2star

  HB

  2.7

  3star

  CL

  0.3

  2star

  HO

  5.3

  5star

  point. Just need more from him, just halve some contests for us big fella. Coxy isn’t the answer, maybe Moore is when we get Roughy back. Recruit for another tall intercept defender with Freddy being out LT and leave Moore forward second half of the year?

Lots of great efforts today, but have to say three cheers for the umps. Just when I thought they had made a terribly inconsistent (non)call, they’d go one better and make a worse call. What a great job, you can be pretty ordinary and seemingly face no consequences

And it wasn’t both ways.

We got done with a pine cone.

 

[TradeDraft]

I guess I'm on my own, but I don't think Ginnivan should have been awarded the medal. I listened to the criteria just before it was announced, and he didn't satisfy many of them. I thought he was very good, and his scoring probably decided the match, but he didn't deserve the medal.
The team managed a great win, but urgently needs centre square improvement, and the forwards have a lot of work to do on their leading. It was so frustrating to see Nick Daicos begging someone to lead for him and get no response.
A win with so much not right was great, especially as Essendon were primed for maximum effort.

Yeah I remember that Nick had the Ball and waving someone to lead for him but got no Response

 

[Mollythedolly]

I disagree with this in terms of our defence. There were a few times when Essendon had the ball about 100-55 metres from goal and they easily found a player completely free in space inside our forward fifty. There was no pressure and they easily found targets which explains their high DE%. It was poor defending that kept the game close. Don't get me wrong our offense could be better with our kicking inside 50, although our shots of goals (mostly Ginnivan) were well converted.

There isn’t a defence in existence that’ll stand up to quick accurate ball movement. They won the clearances, dominated possession and time in possession, had a DE% of 80, and had a heap more I50’s, yet we kept them to 12 goals. Defence did fine.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I sat right behind the Collingwood goals today. I was watching Madgen like a hawk because a dude close to me was yelling at Madgen like one of the BF posters.

Madgen is an ok defender. He wins more contests than he loses. Is he a great or elite defender? No. He will probably win 2/3 contests. The elite defenders tend to win 8-9/10 contests.

People need to temper their expectations with Madgen.

 

[Vicky Park]

That win was so important. We’ve been talking ourselves up a bit, some positive media even after losses, an upbeat coach etc etc. But to lose four in a row could have been very damaging. A win like that is good for the soul.

 

[JB1975]

People need to temper their expectations with Madgen.

A feeble hope. Madgen will always be burdened by great expectations.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Random q, where can you find the average age of a team each round? Was mentioned once about the age of the bombers and have been wondering ever since. Were they that much younger than our team today?

Essendon average age 24yr 3mth v Pies 25yr 10mth
Average games Essendon 69.8 v Pies 102.3

<50 games Essendon 11 v Pies 8

 

[Matrix10]

I guess I'm on my own, but I don't think Ginnivan should have been awarded the medal. I listened to the criteria just before it was announced, and he didn't satisfy many of them. I thought he was very good, and his scoring probably decided the match, but he didn't deserve the medal.
The team managed a great win, but urgently needs centre square improvement, and the forwards have a lot of work to do on their leading. It was so frustrating to see Nick Daicos begging someone to lead for him and get no response.
A win with so much not right was great, especially as Essendon were primed for maximum effort.

The criteria of the AZM , is about who makes the greatest impact , to persuade and effect a result

 

[TradeDraft]

I sat right behind the Collingwood goals today. I was watching Madgen like a hawk because a dude close to me was yelling at Madgen like one of the BF posters.

Madgen is an ok defender. He wins more contests than he loses. Is he a great or elite defender? No. He will probably win 2/3 contests. The elite defenders tend to win 8-9/10 contests.

People need to temper their expectations with Madgen.

Just know he probably won't get any better and IF we want to be a Flag Contender we need better players

 

[Mollythedolly]

If I may summarise, Madgen has a moral claim to the Anzac Day medal?

Rumoured to have taken a couple of steps toward the dais in anticipation of being named the medal winner, only to rebound once Ginnivan’s name was called.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

There isn’t a defence in existence that’ll stand up to quick accurate ball movement. They won the clearances, dominated possession and time in possession, had a DE% of 80, and had a heap more I50’s, yet we kept them to 12 goals. Defence did fine.

If it was all fast ball movement I would agree. But there were quite a few times when there was slow ball movement with players having plenty of time to zone/man up and they left 1-3 Essendon players free in the forward 50. Maybe we did all we could to stop it (I was watching on TV) but it didn't look like it. It was a combination of poor goal kicking for them and good goal kicking for us that was the difference. Individuals in our defence were good at times but overall our defence let them get easy shots on goal from slow plays that were fairly predictable. They had at least 22 shots on goal and at least a quarter of these were from easy marks to loose men in the forward 50 after fairly slow build ups (a couple rushed behinds but also a few that should have made the distance but didn't)

 

[Heater3923]

There isn’t a defence in existence that’ll stand up to quick accurate ball movement. They won the clearances, dominated possession and time in possession, had a DE% of 80, and had a heap more I50’s, yet we kept them to 12 goals. Defence did fine.

This x 100. I’m glad someone else on this board actually gets it