Preview 2022 Rd 15 Carlton vs Fremantle Saturday June 25 1:45PM @ Marvel Stadium - Team Post #808

[windows1]

Really think we could do with Carroll’s two way running this week.

 

[Mondyboy]

Honey must come in. For Martin, for Owies, for Durdin - don’t really care - any of them.

Toss up between Kemp and Stocker. But given they took Kemp off late in the last quarter of the VFL when the game was done, I think it will be Kemp. Kemp was very good 1 v1 on Bruce in the second half. He played a more aggressive game and it suited him.

And, yes, I would consider Setters and Dow and even Carroll. Collectively they slaughtered the Bulldogs midfield last night and Carroll’s silk was a level above. I wouldn’t be against, for example, a Setterfield for Newnes. Although it will be Newnes 200 and I think the club have more faith in Newnes then the fans do.

Having said all that… if I had to guess as to what will actually happen it would be:

Out: S. Durdin (injured) Martin
In: Honey, Kemp

If Cerra gets up - given the longer break - he comes in for Cotts (who plays sub).


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[Stamos]

If Cerra gets up - given the longer break - he comes in for Cotts (who plays sub).

If, and I think it's very unlikely, Cerra gets up, I'd make Newnes sub, not Cottrell.

Oh, aside from being game 200.

 

[Mondyboy]

If, and I think it's very unlikely, Cerra gets up, I'd make Newnes sub, not Cottrell.

Oh, aside from being game 200.

I also think it’s unlikely.


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[jimsta10]

Kemp has to come in now Big Durds is down - if he gets beaten down back then he can swap with Sos - this is a much better option than putting TDK back (where he has never played) and bringing Mirkov in to ruck (against Darcy who’d kill him).

IMO Honey comes in for Martin who was useless on Thursday and needs an extended run in the 2s to discover some form and fitness.

I’d leave the changes to that unless there’s another unknown injury but try and keep the changes to like for like.

We need to rediscover our clearance game which has deserted us recently otherwise they will slaughter us.

Thought Kemp did well probably didnt get the recognition he deserved.

 

[My Hat]

We appear to have settled on a structure of 5 mids. Dow is apparently next mid in line or it seems that way to me as he is regularly among our best in the VFL. So given this, when we have a mid missing why is it that Dow has been overlooked in 5 of those 6 games?

As I understand it, this is because Dow is competing for an inside mid spot of which there are only two (currently filled by Cripps and Kennedy). Personally I would quite like to know how Voss defines the different midfield roles and how many we have in each -- I don't think that's been comprehensively stated anywhere -- but we know about the inside mid role from an interview with Kennedy.

I'm not saying at all that he should be developed in the seniors just questioning that if we, as we seem to, don't want to give him an opportunity in the position he plays best (according to Vossy) why in the hell can't we give him the chance in the VFL to prove his versatility.

Setterfield played most of his games last year on the wing and the coach was widely criticised for playing him out of position. Along comes a new coach who gives him the first 6 games this season also on the wing and this is cool?

Why is it that Dow cannot be given the same opportunity as Setterfield?

Fair question, and I don't have an answer. Presumably it's either player preference or club / coach opinion of whether the player is suitable to the different role, or a combination of both. But I agree it would be good to have a clearer picture on this.

 

[jezzatigerbrent]

Wonder if Curnow (Ed) will get a gig before years end.

He would have been super handy in the Wet on Friday if fully fit

 

[rp84]

Not sure Martin delivers alot to be honest, for me he was one player l hoped Voss could take to another level, he does not kick enough goals & impacts enough.
Honey definitely is ready, make Martin work more and give him some games on the wing, we cannot stick to same plan as the last 3 games, time to start changing up a few things in particular around the midfield and increase our forward 50 entries, not going to win games based on levels in past few games.

Agree Stocker & Kemp deserve the opportunity.

Literally ANYONE can take martin's position.

9 disposals a game, 3 marks and less than a goal a game is absolutely putrid playing as the 3rd or 4th marking forward in a very good team. This is over 9 games.

Last year was shocking.. this year, arguably worse.

Literally anyone in our reserves could have this output.

I'm ****ing done.

 

[Mondyboy]

He would have been super handy in the Wet on Friday if fully fit

Yep. Would have played a few games this year.


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[F_therest]

That's a cop out and you know it.

Pitto has been out since the Freo game... has our midfield not been firing since then?

Kennedy struggling isn't due to injury.. it's due to form.

But if those guys weren't injured we'd have more options.

If kennedy is struggling for form he could be replaced by Cerra but we can't cause he's injured.

I'm just pointing out that I don't think you can say injuries aren't impacting our midfield when Pitto and Cerra are injured.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Literally ANYONE can take martin's position.

9 disposals a game, 3 marks and less than a goal a game is absolutely putrid playing as the 3rd or 4th marking forward in a very good team. This is over 9 games.

Last year was shocking.. this year, arguably worse.

Literally anyone in our reserves could have this output.

I'm ******* done.

Same. These are his prime years, apparently. What a ****ing waste.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Motlop can actually tackle
Thursday night was laughable … again
Why can’t we tackle? Why? Still cant
I don’t know the stays
But carlton would have to be bottom 5 over last 5 years as a guess
We are just pathetic at tackling

you see any of the ressies game last night?

Motlop was lamentable.....

 

[Beyond Blue]

Literally ANYONE can take martin's position.

9 disposals a game, 3 marks and less than a goal a game is absolutely putrid playing as the 3rd or 4th marking forward in a very good team. This is over 9 games.

Last year was shocking.. this year, arguably worse.

Literally anyone in our reserves could have this output.

I'm ******* done.

I’m with you.

3 years of average at best output after 6 seasons of declining output at Gold Coast I think it’s time we all recognise he’s just not that good!

The tigers game was the final straw for me - his only 3 disposals for the first half were clangers (not under pressure either as 2 of the kicks were from a mark and free kick) and he finished with 8 disposals and 5 clangers, not to mention their backline constantly drove attacks…not a great night for any of our small forwards but at least Fisher, Little Durds and Owies looked like they were trying and all of them have had better output this year.

Honey can play a similar role and is younger and has more upside so now he is back fit and in form it’s time to make the change IMO.

 

[Accidental genius]

he was excellent yesterday - and I'm not his biggest adherent..........

ok good. lets count that as the first. Two more good games like that in vfl and Voss should consider elevating him.

 

[JustaBattler]

Motlop was never given a direct pass by foot - his role was to provide pressure yesterday and given the nature of the game looked more like a defensive high half forward than a forward pocket...criticism of him is too biased...the only blokes whose leads were 'honoured' were the tattooed bloke and Homey who pretty much forced the issue by making space for himself and or sharking forward ball ups - a cut above the rest of Carlton's players - also arguably a smaerter harder version of Stocker. Honey could be anything for us going forward HFF / Wing or mid rotation he is that good.

 

[thylacine60]

ok good. lets count that as the first. Two more good games like that in vfl and Voss should consider elevating him.

starting to run out of games.........

 

[BlueKnowledge]

Really think we could do with Carroll’s two way running this week.

Was at the game last night. He is so clean, level headed and makes the right decisions. Also, Stocker is so vocal and has his team mates back. Pleasure to watch. Honey was so explosive, strong, quick, finishes well and can not underestimate his tackling, he hurts the opponent when he lands those tackles of his.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I’m with you.

3 plus years of average at best output after 6 seasons of declining output at Gold Coast I think it’s time we all recognise he’s just not that good!

The tigers game was the final straw for me - his only 3 disposals for the first half were clangers (not under pressure either as the kicks we from a mark and free kick) and he finished with 8 disposals and 5 clangers, not to mention their backline constantly drove attacks…not a great night for any of our small forwards but at least Fisher, Little Durds and Owies looked like they were trying and all of them have had better output this year.

Honey can play a similar role and is younger and has more upside so now he is back fit and in form it’s time to make the change IMO.

He (Martin) should be told he's playing 2s till he can impact matches and outcomes, week in, week out.

 

[Accidental genius]

He (Martin) should be told he's playing 2s till he can impact matches and outcomes, week in, week out.

for how many consecutive weeks though...3?

 

[Jimmae]

I feel you’re over rating Kennedy’s running by bagging Dow in comparison.

And frankly, if we are all being serious and objective, George Hewett’s defensive running is appalling. He is the slowest player at the club and literally hands off chasing to someone else every time. I really like him as a player. I merely offer up the fact Dow gets slaughtered for his running while Hewett gets a total leave pass.

I mean cancelling out one absurd statement with another is definitely one way to go about it...

Hewett is built up through the body such that he's not going to go on searching runs, but he's not slow. That's how Sydney tend to develop their players, as it wins them enough games through clearance and contested work.

Kennedy was very fumbly last night. Usually has much cleaner hands.

I would stick with him though. Can be a marking target forward if we need to send JSOS back.

Only if we want to suck about 10 pressure acts and 3 tackles out of the forward unit.

Newman isn’t going anywhere..

That's nice, dear!

I watched the VFL game ( again) last night Dow gets every tap directed to him from the tall ruckman - as in EVERY CBB tap - like in 100% of taps. Yes Dow can find some space some times and get his boot to the ball ( he is actually technically not a bad kick as far as technique goes) but his accuracy is a lottery ticket at VFL level. His second efforts at the any contest are pretty much non-existant. His so called excellent around contested ball is a myth. His disposal by hand is mostly hot ball and too often hospital passing - unfortunately he is a very very limited player and this myth that has grown around his so called burst speed is just that a very limited 2-5 meter run - he has a long way to go to be a consistently damaging player and has very very limited skill set - after all these years on an AFL list.

Bullshit. I was a huge critic on his draft valuation, his lack of ability and technique by foot, his lack of variety and ability to be strong over the ball at AFL-level stoppages, but he's worked on all of it. The Bolton years were shocking for his development and left him a rake, and then Teague went overboard. He's been in a good state since late 2020, but only used properly in maybe 8 games in 3 years.

You can add to the list the call for Dow's extended run when he has played 61 games
And Kick round the body Setterfield

39 of those were in his first 2 seasons. He then had an injury riddled 2020 where Teague tried to get him bulked up (ala O'Brien), then started as a wing/HF for 2021 under Teague, only getting to play in his natural position after that bloke got the sack, and played well until our injuries mounted up late in the season.

Under Voss he was barely shaded by a fit Kennedy who seemingly cannot stay fit and yet we've given the latter 3 years (hopefully at well under $400k and weighted towards match fees and performance incentives.

I think people misunderstand a lot of the issues with Dow: he throws everything into stoppage work, including second and third efforts when it's warranted, and it leaves him momentarily taxed for follow-up outside of that. He needs to not only work with his coaches on how to better balance moving between first to fifth gears throughout the game, but he needs to go a bit further and self-educate with his video work.

Once he's figured out when to pace himself a bit better, he will have moments where he blocks for others, or collapses a stoppage when we need to buy time to recover aerobically or positionally. His best is top tier elite and he will likely excel at another club that's really prepared to encourage him to drill down on when and where to conserve energy.

The match report I believe is written by a uni student. I don't get why we stopped publishing Dan O'Keefe's player reviews.

Probably a lack of page views. It always was sanitised match notes that gave little insight.

Really think we could do with Carroll’s two way running this week.

The consistent problem with Carroll is that he rarely follows up efforts like this, and that they're usually not born of anything particularly explosive around contested situations. He's class with the ball and makes good decisions, and he does do some daring things on the outside, but at the stoppage he's still playing a game style that doesn't really impact outside of the U18s or 2nd tier ammos.

Motlop was never given a direct pass by foot - his role was to provide pressure yesterday and given the nature of the game looked more like a defensive high half forward than a forward pocket...criticism of him is too biased...the only blokes whose leads were 'honoured' were the tattooed bloke and Homey who pretty much forced the issue by making space for himself and or sharking forward ball ups - a cut above the rest of Carlton's players - also arguably a smaerter harder version of Stocker. Honey could be anything for us going forward HFF / Wing or mid rotation he is that good.

My criticism of Motlop is he is not running out quarters and games, and his top speed is rarely seen. He really seems restricted in either his flexibility or build from being able to hit full pace the majority of the time, and it leaves him trailing way too many opponents.

Turning circle of Titanic as well.

 

[Zlatan]

Literally ANYONE can take martin's position.

9 disposals a game, 3 marks and less than a goal a game is absolutely putrid playing as the 3rd or 4th marking forward in a very good team. This is over 9 games.

Last year was shocking.. this year, arguably worse.

Literally anyone in our reserves could have this output.

I'm ******* done.

Absolutely fair call.

 

[Accidental genius]

Looks bloody good in these highlights.

im not sure what more Voss is expecting from Dow.

 

[CaptainCharisma]

Well we’re 4-0 under the lid at Marvel this year…

 

[forever blue 1]

you see any of the ressies game last night?

Motlop was lamentable.....

I didn’t. Does lamentable mean there’s a chance for selection? Asking for a friend

 

[katmanblue]

Looks bloody good in these highlights.

im not sure what more Voss is expecting from Dow.

It's everything inbetween highlights that the issue.

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