Review Round 17, 2022 - Brisbane Lions vs. Essendon

[lioninthesand]

Those teachers you were referring to were mostly in the development department.

Our issues pre-dated Stone and Bruce and Daly is still at the club

I don’t have an issue with Bruce. The jury is out in Stone.

The rest of the coaching department on paper, feels pretty stale/cosy to me.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I don’t have an issue with Bruce. The jury is out in Stone.

The rest of the coaching department on paper, feels pretty stale/cosy to me.

Were you one of the guys having a go at Adcock for years and then we became the highest scoring team pretty quickly?

 

[martinson]

What we need to do is win this week. Not worried about a wasted year or finals or anything else.

That requires better players and a better effort.

I'm sure we're aiming for both.

 

[lioninthesand]

Were you one of the guys having a go at Adcock for years and then we became the highest scoring team pretty quickly?

No, I wasn’t. I like Jed. Are you suggesting we should not look at re-tooling, re-setting the coaching department if things continue down this path and we are unsuccessful again this year? Or do we just roll out the same set up again?

 

[briztoon]

What we need to do is win this week. Not worried about a wasted year or finals or anything else.

That requires better players and a better effort.

I'm sure we're aiming for both.

Where are we getting them from?

 

[lioninthesand]

What we need to do is win this week. Not worried about a wasted year or finals or anything else.

That requires better players and a better effort.

I'm sure we're aiming for both.

I’d say bigger picture should be in the frame for the rest of the year.

Yes we need to win this weekend.

But scrapping together ‘paper over the crack’ wins to inevitably dish up tripe when it matters is part of the issue.

I’d actually say the club could use this block to shake things up/look more longer term.

 

[Nathan Barley]

No, I wasn’t. I like Jed. Are you suggesting we should not look at re-tooling, re-setting the coaching department if things continue down this path and we are unsuccessful again this year? Or do we just roll out the same set up again?

I'm much more worried about the list management and development teams.

The transition to a post Zorko, Lyons and Robbo midfield has been sped up and we aren't prepared. Not even close

 

[martinson]

I've got no idea what goes on in the coaching dept or whether the coaches are any good or not

Where are we getting them from?

Back from injury/covid.

 

[martinson]

I’d say bigger picture should be in the frame for the rest of the year.

Yes we need to win this weekend.

But scrapping together ‘paper over the crack’ wins to inevitably dish up tripe when it matters is part of the issue.

I’d actually say the club could use this block to shake things up/look more longer term.

The main issue is that our m/f isn't up to speed and we don't really have anyone coming through. Other than those we know. So I think we need to focus on making better decisions re recruiting and drafting to bolster that area.

 

[briztoon]

I’d say bigger picture should be in the frame for the rest of the year.

Yes we need to win this weekend.

But scrapping together ‘paper over the crack’ wins to inevitably dish up tripe when it matters is part of the issue.

I’d actually say the club could use this block to shake things up/look more longer term.

Fagan will not do this. He is 100% coaching for the now.

No way he can go to the senior players and say this, when two or three of them probably aren’t in the team next year.

Like it or not, we’re making one last push this year.

If we don’t look at a reset over the off-season, then we’re in for harder conversations next year.

 

[KissKiss]

What we need to do is win this week. Not worried about a wasted year or finals or anything else.

That requires better players and a better effort.

I'm sure we're aiming for both.

I dont even require a win. If we have another week with multiple players out then good chance we will lose. I just want to see a response in how we play. Effort and especially defensive from the midfield.

 

[McIvor]

I’ve mentioned it every off season, most other good clubs are inching forward and making moves, but - like the playing group - I get an overwhelming sense of ‘comfort’ from the coaching set up.

Every program I've seen in recent days is saying eaxactly that - and its obvious with the improvement in many clubs - Suns, Pies, Blues, Dockers, Cats and a few other others.

I think the only team that has regressed as much is the Dogs in the disappointment stakes, a path I think we'll follow unless something drastically change.

 

[briztoon]

I'm much more worried about the list management and development teams.

The transition to a post Zorko, Lyons and Robbo midfield has been sped up and we aren't prepared. Not even close

I believe Zorko and Robbo (and Rich) are covered, in the medium term, we just need to let those kids develop, and not expect them to step up right away.

We have drafted for that.

I want to say we’ve already drafted Lyons replacement as well, but from my untrained eye, we haven’t been giving him the opportunity he needs to fully develop his game.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Fagan will not do this. He is 100% coaching for the now.

No way he can go to the senior players and say this, when two or three of them probably aren’t in the team next year.

Like it or not, we’re making one last push this year.

If we don’t look at a reset over the off-season, then we’re in for harder conversations next year.

I don't think we're doing a reset. All the older guys are contracted. We'll find a way to include Ashcroft into our team but that'll be it

Just hope it all clicks for us at the right time and Melbourne fall apart somehow

 

[Jeremiah001]

Anyone expecting Fages to not defend his players publicly is kidding themselves. Anyone expecting self-flagellation from him is also kidding themselves. What goes on behind closed doors we are only speculating but if anyone thinks that the coach wouldn't be disappointed with that game then they are kidding themselves.

The blowup with the journo was unfortunate only because it was Fish. The rest of them are looking for the next scalp and can go and get stuffed to put it mildly.

 

[briztoon]

The blowup with the journo was unfortunate only because it was Fish. The rest of them are looking for the next scalp and can go and get stuffed to put it mildly.

I believe we’ve largely been ignored by the footy media up until this point.

With Noble gone, things will change now.

Essendon and Us will now become the targets.

 

[rye]

I believe we’ve largely been ignored by the footy media up until this point.

With Noble gone, things will change now.

Essendon and Us will now become the targets.

theyre already going after footscray

if we flop this month we're probably next in line

 

[martinson]

I believe we’ve largely been ignored by the footy media up until this point.

With Noble gone, things will change now.

Essendon and Us will now become the targets.

They can target us all they like. We still have the nucleus of a good team . We can reset over the next couple of years provided we realise we're we've fallen short a little and become ruthless and smart with our list.

Be realistic and do something about it. If we can.

 

[Tom14]

They can target us all they like. We still have the nucleus of a good team . We can reset over the next couple of years provided we realise we're we've fallen short a little and become ruthless and smart with our list.

Be realistic and do something about it. If we can.

Its not disastrous yet. Some work to do to smooth things over and fill a hole or two. Forward line still will be a strength for a couple more years, main thing is getting midfield help and solidifying a structure once McStay leaves.

 

[briztoon]

theyre already going after footscray

if we flop this month we're probably next in line

I believe they’re looking at the Bulldogs list imbalance, and that’s more a list management focus.

I’m not sure Bevo will come under the same scrutiny as Fagan.

Essendon the focus will be on both the coach and list management.

 

[Pride of lions]

Apart from the Melbourne drubbing we have been in a position to win every game of the season. A week ago we outpressured the Bulldogs who have one of the best midfields in the competition and won easily. Then we lost 9 players from that team and obviously had an incredibly disrupted week leading into the game with very little preparation time to even sort out a game plan with them all. There were obviously disappointing efforts and errors made by some of the younger players but that is common and with so many senior players missing they didn’t have the leadership around them to help them out. And we still only lost by a kick. Even Melbourne would struggle to win after losing 9 players and having that sort of disruption.
We all know about the issues with the centre square clearances and that has to be sorted asap, but I can’t believe so many on here are bagging out Fagan, and joining in the pile on from Barrett and co. Hopefully we get a bunch of our senior and best players back this week and get back on track.

 

[martinson]

Its not disastrous yet. Some work to do to smooth things over and fill a hole or two. Forward line still will be a strength for a couple more years, main thing is getting midfield help and solidifying a structure once McStay leaves.

Obviously Ashcroft is fairly crucial especially if we don't the capacity to bring someone in. I'm filthy we've signed JL till 24 but all we can do is hope he's been carrying something and we can regenerate him for a year or two.

Our forward set up is still ok especially if Hipwood can get a lot better in '23. Likewise defence is ok for the time being.

Maybe Lohman and Wilmott can really come on next year.

All's not lost provided we understand where we're at and take the right steps.

 

[martinson]

Apart from the Melbourne drubbing we have been in a position to win every game of the season. A week ago we outpressured the Bulldogs who have one of the best midfields in the competition and won easily. Then we lost 9 players from that team and obviously had an incredibly disrupted week leading into the game with very little preparation time to even sort out a game plan with them all. There were obviously disappointing efforts and errors made by some of the younger players but that is common and with so many senior players missing they didn’t have the leadership around them to help them out. And we still only lost by a kick. Even Melbourne would struggle to win after losing 9 players and having that sort of disruption.
We all know about the issues with the centre square clearances and that has to be sorted asap, but I can’t believe so many on here are bagging out Fagan, and joining in the pile on from Barrett and co. Hopefully we get a bunch of our senior and best players back this week and get back on track.

I actually thought Barrett was really measured and showed a lot of sympathy for Fages' situation.

 

[Tom14]

Obviously Ashcroft is fairly crucial especially if we don't the capacity to bring someone in. I'm filthy we've signed JL till 24 but all we can do is hope he's been carrying something and we can regenerate him for a year or two.

Our forward set up is still ok especially if Hipwood can get a lot better in '23. Likewise defence is ok for the time being.

Maybe Lohman and Wilmott can really come on next year.

All's not lost provided we understand where we're at and take the right steps.

Probably have one more big year of Joe's salary next year assuming we weren't allowed to mess with it in his contract extension. Might prevent us from doing a crazy amount this year but clearly we had enough money to offer McStay a reasonable suggestion.

Worth noting too that despite all of our issues this year (and I'm not disputing that they are large problems) we've lost 3 games by 2 goals or less (Cats, Hawks, Bombers) and another by less than 3 goals (Freo) - only the Dees loss has been really really bad margin wise. Bit of luck and better play and we'd have won a few more of those and still be in the top 2.

There are real problems to fix but the fundamentals are still there of a top 8 side - whether it can do anything more than make up the numbers is the issue.

 

[Ceebee]

Anyone expecting Fages to not defend his players publicly is kidding themselves. Anyone expecting self-flagellation from him is also kidding themselves. What goes on behind closed doors we are only speculating but if anyone thinks that the coach wouldn't be disappointed with that game then they are kidding themselves.

The blowup with the journo was unfortunate only because it was Fish. The rest of them are looking for the next scalp and can go and get stuffed to put it mildly.

Well said.