Preview 2022 Rd 20 Carlton vs Adelaide Saturday July 30 7:30PM @ Adelaide Oval - Team Post #586

[thylacine60]

Sorry ...ummmmm.....what 'devices' were you using on your honeymoon ??

him - the remote
her - the footspa

 

[thylacine60]

Did you post your letter from the Queen?

yes, it came back not known at this address.........

 

[blueblooded]

Jsos cannot apply the direct or referred f50 pressure Motlop can though.

That’s the role Motlop is playing atm, he also has a crafty & silky ability to hit the scoreboard as well.

Can’t fit square pegs in round holes or select favourite players to unsuitable roles, David Teague is no longer coach.....

As harsh as a decision it is because Jack has busted his arse this sums it up.
Playing TDK, Sos and Charlie in the same F50 is too top heavy and SOS can't apply pressure like the smalls can even though they aren't setting the world on fire. Good players were always going to miss out when all of our talls are available, Jack just happens to be a Silvagni so it stings the supporter base.

Right now Jack Martin, Jack Silvagni and Caleb Marchbank are not in this team and all have claims to be in it...if the team plays well this week there's a chance all 3 are playing 2s next week. Zac Williams could be right to go in another week and come round 23 if Nick Newman continues to play well he'll be playing 2s as well. This is a seriously good problem to have.

TDK needs to play well this week, give us a point of different up forward and contribute as a 2nd ruck or JSOS comes back in.
Setterfield needs to play well or he's straight out as soon as Hewett is back
Cottrell is on a knifes edge every game, if he plays poorly he's out.
these are all very good things and should see no complacency creep in.
the players know this

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

George Hewett news doesn’t sound ideal..

“He hasn’t got himself going yet, so we’re probably still a wait on that one.

“We’ve got to go through a few things next week to see what the next stage looks like.”

Thought the same... hopefully nothing serious

 

[KohPhi]

Enough of the JSOS talk.. what's done is done.. like this fella, can't wait for the game to start..



Also, how good does he pull off wearing a pair of slim fit jeans!!

 

[FRUMPY]

Thilthorpe a potential late change out tomorrow

Keep him in, ill chuck him in my same game multi as a goal kicker - never kicks a goal when i do that

 

[thylacine60]

Enough of the JSOS talk.. what's done is done.. like this fella, can't wait for the game to start..

View attachment 1459520

Also, how good does he pull off wearing a pair of slim fit jeans!!

Comes a time bloke has to give the skinnys away......

 

[goreds]

Comes a time bloke has to give the skinnys away......

Mine didn't start as skinnys....

 

[JyeDye]

Looking at the teams I reckon that’s almost the best 22 we’ve fielded all year. Getting a lot of players back at the right time of season. I don’t see a spot where SOS fits in that team, so happy with the coaches selections. It’s a good problem to have, to many talented players fighting for limited spots.

 

[macky99]

JSOS dropped but Motlop/Durdin hold their spot when their output hasn't been great overall recently. Would have thought either of those two could have made way for Owies and JSOS keeps his spot. Don't like it Vossy. If TDK isn't going to be number one ruck JSOS serves us better in the forward line.

I tend to agree with the fact JSOS has been asked to play a role as the second ruck for most of the season which he is not really equipped to do and sacrifice his own game for the best needs of the team, so on that basis l can understand his disappointment, l have no doubt he is still in our best 22, who knows he may end up being the sub in this game.

 

[myblueroan]

We have to go with Voss's game plan and preferred structures to understand his team selection(s)

if asked to choose between (for discussion sake) Jack V Motlop/Honey/Durdin/Owies as a third tall and ruck relief with utility capability then Jack wins easy
if asked to choose between Jack and ANY of the above as a speedy defensive small forward - Jack loses

Voss #1 team selection criteria is structure and role ie he is a game plan based coach as all good coaches have to be

then he clears for contested ability
then he clears for form

I don't think Honey/Motlop/Durdin or Owies primary role is crumbling or kicking goals - that is an outcome of the game plan - which is basically pressure on the ball creating turnovers and creating opportunity ie every player on the ground is expected to be able to impact on a contest through pressure which is basically running ability matched to physicality

This explains why certain players who might some boxes eg Dow for burst speed, Stocker for hardness at the contest, aren't getting games - because whilst ticking a box they aren't better at ticking all requirements than current alternatives.

With Pittonet OUT TDK was forced into #1 ruck role and he has developed very well after a poor start. This deprived him of the ability to develop other aspects of his game - forward craft. SOJ came in to be the relief ruck - and he too played well in that role- but in playing that role it lessened his ability to impact as a third tall.

With Pittonetback in TDK is a better second ruck option and a better marking target - so where does Jack fit if he isn't as fast as alternatives in terms of leg speed and isn't as good as others ( Charlie and Harry ) as forward marking targets?

This is the selection dilemma for a team that has developing depth. You can't fit every player that has god attributes into any position just because.

Unfortunately - the weakest part of the list is on the flanks - and Jack hasn't played flanker and certainly doesn't have the defensive each way running capacity of a Cottrell or LoB or Newnes - despite being a better contested player - he won't be able to make the between the arcs long runs all day like they can.

If he was fit - an argument could be made that he is a better alternative to Setterfield on a flank - I don't see too much difference between these two as far as running ability goes. Setterfield is being rewarded for an ok game in the last outing - on a wing. Jack hasn't played wing.

Thanks. Really appreciate your knowledge and comprehensive answer.
I acknowledge all of what you wrote. It makes sense,
but still...Jack has an x factor..maybe it's emotional connection . Zeitgeist..spirit of Carlton thar doesn't show in stats. He is one who can lift supporters and players with a timely mark or goal..sometimes one after the other.
I am wondering aloud if that adds up to more in reality than what we currently get from Motlop in early development. Lose a bit of speed sure, but Jack can spoil and he knows where to be.

 

[myblueroan]

Looking at the teams I reckon that’s almost the best 22 we’ve fielded all year. Getting a lot of players back at the right time of season. I don’t see a spot where SOS fits in that team, so happy with the coaches selections. It’s a good problem to have, to many talented players fighting for limited spots.

Yep. For sure.

 

[skadoosh]

So we've gone with a main ruck in Pitto, 2nd ruck/resting forward TDK, 2 talls in Harry and Charlie and then 3 smalls in Owies, Motlop and Durdin. Voss (at least this week) sees no room for a 3rd tall in JSOS. I'm curious how other teams structure up - are there other teams who utilise 2 rucks as well as a 3rd tall?

 

[Blue since 72]

it's odd watching charlie out the back like a crumbing forward banging through a joseph the long necked farm fowl.............

Yeah I initially thought the same, then I thought if the idiot defenders all want to go up and leave him out the back 5 metres from an open goal then more power to him.

Oppo coaches must pull their hair out every time he does it.

Highlights the panic that sets in when a high ball comes into the hot spot with Charlie and Harry there.

 

[Benaly28]

Looking at the teams I reckon that’s almost the best 22 we’ve fielded all year. Getting a lot of players back at the right time of season. I don’t see a spot where SOS fits in that team, so happy with the coaches selections. It’s a good problem to have, to many talented players fighting for limited spots.

Jsos,Hewett and maybe Marchy/Martin make us even better.


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[skadoosh]

Yeah I initially thought the same, then I thought if the idiot defenders all want to go up and leave him out the back 5 metres from an open goal then more power to him.

Oppo coaches must pull their hair out every time he does it.

Highlights the panic that sets in when a high ball comes into the hot spot with Charlie and Harry there.

Lucky for Mathew Nicks as he has none to pull out!

 

[Guus_Hiddink]

Any SA members on here with a spare code to access Carlton seating areas tomorrow? Heading up for the game, need 2 tickets. Please PM if you can help, thanks.

 

[CaptainCharisma]

So we've gone with a main ruck in Pitto, 2nd ruck/resting forward TDK, 2 talls in Harry and Charlie and then 3 smalls in Owies, Motlop and Durdin. Voss (at least this week) sees no room for a 3rd tall in JSOS. I'm curious how other teams structure up - are there other teams who utilise 2 rucks as well as a 3rd tall?

I think the closest would be Melbourne. Their GF side had McDonald, Brown, Gawn/Jackson and Fritsch as the "hybrid" kind of forward JSOS would need to play to mimic their set up.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Thanks. Really appreciate yoyr knowledge and comprehensive answer. I acknowledge all of what tou wrote. It makes sense but still...Jack has an x factor..maybe it's emotional connection . Zeitgeist..spirit if Carlton thar doesn't show in stats. He is one who can lift supporters and players with a timely mark or goal..sometimes one after the other. I am wondering aloud if that adds up to more in reality than what we currently get from Motlop in early development. Lose a bit of speed sure, but Jack can spoil and he knows where to be.

For sure, but it's not every week, and there are others who can do the same.

When GWS were coming at us last weekend, it wasn't JSOS who raised the bar and dragged the team with him, it was Walsh and Saad. Sometimes it's Crippa putting the team on his back, other times it's Harry or Charlie grabbing a game by the throat, or Weitering and Docherty putting their bodies on the line to save a goal.

There's a bit of a risk in attaching the club's "spirit" to a single player. Jack gives his all, respect him immensely for that, but if the list of available players and their positions/form dictates that he's 23rd or 24th man, either outright or because he's been overworked and that's affecting his game, then that's just how it is. He'll respond, I'm sure. We'll tinker. Maybe TDK will struggle to acclimatise to a 70/30 forward/ruck role and JSOS will walk back in. Maybe it's a horses for courses thing, and we want to be able to select one of TDK/JSOS based on the ruck setup we'll be facing.

 

[Osc1]

Jsos,Hewett and maybe Marchy/Martin make us even better.


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Williams too. Class is hard to come by.

 

[thylacine60]

Any SA members on here with a spare code to access Carlton seating areas tomorrow? Heading up for the game, need 2 tickets. Please PM if you can help, thanks.

anyone?

 

[dylan_mike1]

I reckon JSOS and Owies are close in terms of play style. Both present extremely well on the lead and are smart moving the ball inside 50.

Motlop and Durdin are more traditional forward pocket crumbers who can create something out of nothing.

Honey somewhere in between.

When Hewett returns and Fisher moves closer to goal we will have more clarity.

I have noticed many times this year, that Owies struggled to get separation from his opponent when on a lead, which is a surprise for me, as i read he recorded 2.85 secs for 20 meters when younger which is pretty dam quick. Maybe has been carrying an injury, cause this year he has struggled to get seperation and was easily beat by opponent at times . I would put jsos ahead as a footballer and general decision making is pretty elite as well . One on one skills and sheer grit and determination, again jsos would be ahead of the two. . I know too hard to compare as they play different roles.

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[thylacine60]

I have noticed many times this year, that Owies struggled to get separation from his opponent when on a lead, which is a surprise for me, as i read he recorded 2.85 secs for 20 meters when younger which is pretty dam quick. Maybe has been carrying an injury, cause this year he has struggled to get seperation and was easily beat by opponent at times . I would put jsos ahead as a footballer and general decision making is pretty elite as well . One on one skills and sheer grit and determination, again jsos would be well ahead of the two. . I know too hard to compare as they play different roles.

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I've always said owies' number one skill was getting to the right positions..........

 

[dylan_mike1]

I've always said owies' number one skill was getting to the right positions..........

Yep, he certainly runs the patterns as well as anyone.

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[Sector 7G]

I've always said owies' number one skill was getting to the right positions..........

Did you know he had a BBall background?