Tassie

[Demon13304]

What fcked second tier competitions and teams that have folded in the greed of the AFL>NO comment?

Did you even read my post?

 

[anchor man]

Did you even read my post?

So it is OK to see other competitions and clubs close. Country football shut down competitions and such, but we are expected to be sorry if a couple of money sucking Melbourne based clubs get shoved out.
The AFL is killing football in Australia.

 

[Demon13304]

So it is OK to see other competitions and clubs close. Country football shut down competitions and such, but we are expected to be sorry if a couple of money sucking Melbourne based clubs get shoved out.
The AFL is killing football in Australia.

Please just read and comprehend what I actually posted, it's not that hard my man

I literally said that i dont like that clubs across Australia have died/are dying. And I also said that I agree that WA and SA helped the AFL.

Anyway I'm not gonna bother with this anymore because you've clearly got comprehension issues and have been putting words into my mouth the entire time + ignored the rest of my entire post.

Goodbye mate

 

[anchor man]

Please just read and comprehend what I actually posted, it's not that hard my man

I literally said that i dont like that clubs across Australia have died/are dying. And I also said that I agree that WA and SA helped the AFL.

Anyway I'm not gonna bother with this anymore because you've clearly got comprehension issues and have been putting words into my mouth the entire time + ignored the rest of my entire post.

Goodbye mate

No mate of mine.

 

[Coolangatta]

I have no idea just how they can solve the problem, but one thing is obvious and has been since the Golden Greeks rein, they want a 20 team competition.
There is no way that any Melbourne based clubs will relocate or be removed.
As for the two franchise teams, they will be a force in the not too distant future. It is a case of other clubs not pillaging their lists.
Another sure thing is that Tassie don't want a team from Melbourne placed won there and act like it was a Tassie team.
Tassie wants Tassie. I think that has been shown by the lack of support recently for the Melbourne visitors down there.

Yeah, I mean, in my scenario, to elaborate, if I'm the new CEO in 2003, by 2004, the competition is reduced from 16 teams to 12 teams, but with Gold Coast and Western Sydney coming in from 2011 and 2012, getting the Saints brand and the Dogs brand respectively, but they still would've been technically new clubs. And then Tassie in 2022 with their own unique brand as the Devils, and Canberra in 2023 as the Kangaroos. Perth Demons and a unique SA brand 15-20 years from then, and finally, maybe NT and NQLD in the 2060s.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

So it is OK to see other competitions and clubs close. Country football shut down competitions and such, but we are expected to be sorry if a couple of money sucking Melbourne based clubs get shoved out.
The AFL is killing football in Australia.

Remind me, how exactly does killing the smaller Melbourne clubs help arrest that situation?

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

These days, Every club gets propped up by the AFL

Shhh! you'll get in trouble around here for daring to say such things!

 

[harmesy 37]

Empire overreach.
When Augustus came to power in the Roman Empire the first thing he did was stop expansion. There was a time for consolidation.
Greedy executives in the AFL will never have the wisdom of an Augustus. They see it as their "legacy" to have done something magnificent.
How about consolidating the teams already in this already overly large competition. Rome didn't have the resources for an extra 10,000 troops in a new conquered territory. Similarly, the AFL is going to bleed the competition dry to establish a new team. How many picks do they get? Isn't anyone sick of this process .....again.

Essendon has not won a final for over 10 years.
North Melbourne has problems.
Gold Coast - problems.
West Coast - problems.
Are these problems no longer important?
Nothing matters other than glittering gold in Tasmania.

Tasmania might be viable in 20 years time, but let's solve the problems of the now NOW.

 

[Walshawk]

Empire overreach.
When Augustus came to power in the Roman Empire the first thing he did was stop expansion. There was a time for consolidation.
Greedy executives in the AFL will never have the wisdom of an Augustus. They see it as their "legacy" to have done something magnificent.
How about consolidating the teams already in this already overly large competition. Rome didn't have the resources for an extra 10,000 troops in a new conquered territory. Similarly, the AFL is going to bleed the competition dry to establish a new team. How many picks do they get? Isn't anyone sick of this process .....again.

Essendon has not won a final for over 10 years.
North Melbourne has problems.
Gold Coast - problems.
West Coast - problems.
Are these problems no longer important?
Nothing matters other than glittering gold in Tasmania.

Tasmania might be viable in 20 years time, but let's solve the problems of the now NOW.

The solutions are not mutually exclusive. In fact they a pretty independent. Right now WC and Nth are short of players. Tasmania going to the draft in 2027 won’t affect those clubs getting players now. GC and GWS have no fans, but Tas coming in 2028 won’t affect their crowds (other than showing how much more viable Tasmania is that those areas). And Essendon not winning a final is a good thing, not a problem.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Empire overreach.
When Augustus came to power in the Roman Empire the first thing he did was stop expansion. There was a time for consolidation.
Greedy executives in the AFL will never have the wisdom of an Augustus. They see it as their "legacy" to have done something magnificent.
How about consolidating the teams already in this already overly large competition. Rome didn't have the resources for an extra 10,000 troops in a new conquered territory. Similarly, the AFL is going to bleed the competition dry to establish a new team. How many picks do they get? Isn't anyone sick of this process .....again.

Essendon has not won a final for over 10 years.
North Melbourne has problems.
Gold Coast - problems.
West Coast - problems.
Are these problems no longer important?
Nothing matters other than glittering gold in Tasmania.

Tasmania might be viable in 20 years time, but let's solve the problems of the now NOW.

Circumstances change Tasmanian football is in an absolute atrocious state getting worse buy the day I would hate for to see it in 20 years if nothing is done. People might laugh but due to the jack jumpers basketball is booming down its only going to get worse if the afl do nothing

 

[Engimal v3]

Are North the most financially screwed Victorian team in the league right now?

No; in Victoria alone St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs have received a combined $161 million dollars more in AFL distribution than North over the last decade. GWS, Gold Coast and Brisbane have received more, interstate. In addition, North have achieved profits every year of the last 10.

 

[Coolangatta]

No; in Victoria alone St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs have received a combined $161 million dollars more in AFL distribution than North over the last decade. GWS, Gold Coast and Brisbane have received more, interstate. In addition, North have achieved profits every year of the last 10.

Truth be said if they’re ever gonna relocate a team it should be to Newcastle because NSW doesn’t deserve their own team as much as a footy heartland of Tassie does. The AFL would still want a 20th licence after Tas though and Canberra is a good option for that.

 

[Coolangatta]

Apparently, some of the club presidents are gonna vote against it. How many yes votes do they need?

 

[exxcessivve]

Devonport Dragons
Hobart Hikers
Tassie Mountaineers

 

[anchor man]

Remind me, how exactly does killing the smaller Melbourne clubs help arrest that situation?

My thoughts on Victorian clubs is about the same as yours for the loss of the game all over Australia.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

My thoughts on Victorian clubs is about the same as yours for the loss of the game all over Australia.

That's funny, I don't recall for the life of me at any point posting my thoughts on "the loss of the game all over Australia" so either my account has been hacked or I've been sleep-typing

 

[Demon13304]

That's funny, I don't recall for the life of me at any point posting my thoughts on "the loss of the game all over Australia" so either my account has been hacked or I've been sleep-typing

I wouldn't bother with him mate, you won't be able to have a sensical argument/conversation with him. He'll put words into your mouth, deflect and ignore any good point you make

 

[Professor Knowall]

When Augustus came to power in the Roman Empire the first thing he did was stop expansion. There was a time for consolidation...

OK - The Professor is back to fact-check and correct this grevious error. Augustus did no such thing - in fact, from 31 BC when he acquired unchallenged power by defeating Mark Antony at Atium up until his death in 14 AD, the empire expanded massively in his reign - first, the conquest of Egypt, then completing the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula, expanding deeper into the Middle East and especially in the Balkans, where the boundary was pushed from the coastal strip all the way to the Danube River to the Black Sea, after years of bloody battles. He also extended the border deep into Germany, from the Rhine to the Elbe River for almost 20 years until the devastating surprise ambush in the Teutoburg Forest on 9 AD.

What is true is that near the end of his life he (supposedly) advised his successor, Tiberius, not to expand further - that at least was the reason Tiberius used to call off further expansion. But this still didn't stop further expansion over the next 120 years, including the conquest of Britain, north-west Africa, more of modern Turkey, Romania and Iraq etc.

So, if the "greedy" executives of the AFL actually have the "wisdom" of Augustus, they will see they have an obligation to expand the AFL.

 

[harmesy 37]

OK - The Professor is back to fact-check and correct this grevious error. Augustus did no such thing - in fact, from 31 BC when he acquired unchallenged power by defeating Mark Antony at Atium up until his death in 14 AD, the empire expanded massively in his reign - first, the conquest of Egypt, then completing the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula, expanding deeper into the Middle East and especially in the Balkans, where the boundary was pushed from the coastal strip all the way to the Danube River to the Black Sea, after years of bloody battles. He also extended the border deep into Germany, from the Rhine to the Elbe River for almost 20 years until the devastating surprise ambush in the Teutoburg Forest on 9 AD.

What is true is that near the end of his life he (supposedly) advised his successor, Tiberius, not to expand further - that at least was the reason Tiberius used to call off further expansion. But this still didn't stop further expansion over the next 120 years, including the conquest of Britain, north-west Africa, more of modern Turkey, Romania and Iraq etc.

So, if the "greedy" executives of the AFL actually have the "wisdom" of Augustus, they will see they have an obligation to expand the AFL.

Augustus believed that the empire didn't need costly wars as a result of the humiliation of the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest. His humbling at this battle was a key factor in Rome realising they shouldn't overextend their resources. KNOW YOUR LIMITS...

....maybe what I posted above could have been worded differently to avoid confusion, but the point remains - Augustus did not believe in extending Rome beyond its limits...ie really pushing its resources and the battle your referenced above was a key factor in that thinking.

You reference the Iberian Peninsula- Rome had conquered the important bits in 206BC in the Carthaginian Wars...what Augustus did was relatively pain free. Icing on the cake.

Egypt...spoils of a battle Augustus had before he became emperor.


Battle of Teutoburg Forest - extremely costly....overreach....expansion was costly...impact on the rest of the empire.

"The outcome of this battle dissuaded the Romans from their ambition of conquering Germania, and is thus considered one of the most important events in European history."


"The emperors who followed Augustus maintained the Augustan Peace by reducing conflict, expanding the borders, and maintaining harmony at home."

The point is the aim was to limit costly, extended, draining wars.

In relation to the AFL the point remains - lengthy, costly funding of a new team so soon after two new teams haven't settled, salary caps, draft benefits, attrition, wear and tear......there are huge problems "within the empire" already ...why not stabilise the empire before you add to the problems there already are?

We have just come out of a 2 year lockdown...then they have to plan for a new team. Again.

Tasy is great, but know when to attack and when to stabilise.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Augustus believed that the empire didn't need costly wars as a result of the humiliation of the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest. His humbling at this battle was a key factor in Rome realising they shouldn't overextend their resources. KNOW YOUR LIMITS...
Battle of Teutoburg Forest - extremely costly....overreach....expansion was costly...impact on the rest of the empire.
"The outcome of this battle dissuaded the Romans from their ambition of conquering Germania, and is thus considered one of the most important events in European history."

Now that's one POV - but, without dismissing the importance of the battle and the consequent loss of Germania, many others, looking at the subsequent Roman incursions into Germania led by Tiberius and his nephew, Germanicus, draw a much different conclusion e.g. Goldsworthy, in his 2014 biography of Augustus (page 457) - "The campaigns in Germany continued for the rest of Augustus' life and it is clear that he still hoped to regain the lost province."

.... You reference the Iberian Peninsula- Rome had conquered the important bits in 206BC in the Carthaginian Wars...what Augustus did was relatively pain free. Icing on the cake.

The "important bits" conquered by Scipio Africanus, comprised only the agricultural lowland regions in the East and South previously occupied by the Carthaginians. The remaining "unimportant" - and far more difficult to conquer - areas contained hugely valuable gold, silver, iron and copper deposits, vital to continued Roman strength and therefore a prime military target - thus we see a whole series of wars in Spain fought over the next 170 years e.g. the campaign of Cato the Elder, The First Celtiberian War, The Second Celtiberian War, the Lusitanian and Viriathc Wars, the Numantian War (in which Scipio Aemilianus finally achieved victory), the Sertorian War etc. Hispania was like an endless bleeding sore to Rome - until Augustus

None of these wars were as large or as costly as the bloody conflict launched by Augustus against the Cantabri and the Astures, the last independent Celtic nations of Hispania. These warlike peoples, who had supplied mercenary armies for decades, fiercely resisted Roman domination from their heavily fortified mountain redoubts. It required 10 years of continual war and a massive force of 8 legions, along with their auxiliary troops – more than 50,000 soldiers in total – to subdue the region, with many thousands of casualties, and 2 legions remained there for the next 70 years. The prize? - very rich goldmines. So much for "... what Augustus did was relatively pain free ...".

"... The emperors who followed Augustus maintained the Augustan Peace by reducing conflict, expanding the borders, and maintaining harmony at home."

The term "Augustan Peace" (after his death re-branded as "Pax Romana") was specifically understood in the context of being free from the ruins of civil war, which had plagued the Empire almost continually over the last 60 years of the Republic to 31 BC, with its competing aristocratic warlords, until Augustus, in his series of victories over all other Roman competitors for power e.g. Cassius and Brutus, Sextus Pompeius, Marcus Lepidus and finally Mark Antony, had finally crushed all opposition and set up the principate - in effect, a disguised military dictatorship. This term was never applied to external enemies and so we find that under the "Augustan Peace" more territory was conquered and the empire thereby expanded than under any other ruler.

As for the emperors who followed Augustus and maintained the "Augustan Peace" or Pax Romana - Claudius invaded Britain, his successor, Nero, a relative pacifist, oversaw the continued conquest of Britain and war on Judaea. Vespasian conquered Jerusalem and the remainder of Judaea, then undertook the conquest of the Agri Decumates in Germany, completed by Titus and Domitian. Trajan launched huge offensive campaigns in modern day Romania and Iraq (then the Parthian Empire), Marcus Aurelius was well along the way to establishing a new German province until his untimely death and his worthless son Commodus' willingness to be bribed, while Severus extended the empires borders to near the Caspian Sea and into Iraq as well as present day Morocco.

The example you should've used to make your point against expansion wasn't Augustus, who, as Virgil's epic poem, The Aeneid, reveals, believed in Roman world rule without end, but in Hadrian - who believed in a contained empire within strong, secure borders (e.g. Hadrians Wall). Hadrian was the one who, through his policies and action, actually fits all your points to a tee.

But as for the AFL expansion into Tasmania - it's a footy state and so I think that, if properly implemented, it won't be nearly so costly as the Suns and Giants. Unlike what the long and bloody Spanish campaign was for Augustus, it should be relatively pain free - icing on the cake.

 

[Tigerlaird]

Make the AFL Victorian again and get rid of all the interstate clubs. Bring back Fitzroy and South Melbourne and you'll solve your too many teams dillution of talent issue.

Let the states have their own football leagues. SA has the SANFL, WA has the WAFL, Vic has the VFL and the rest can play rugby league or basketball or whatever.

 

[Kwality]

Make the AFL Victorian again and get rid of all the interstate clubs. Bring back Fitzroy and South Melbourne and you'll solve your too many teams dillution of talent issue.

Let the states have their own football leagues. SA has the SANFL, WA has the WAFL, Vic has the VFL and the rest can play rugby league or basketball or whatever.

Imagine the VFL without indigenous footballers - thats what you are proposing.

 

[Power Raid]

Make the AFL Victorian again and get rid of all the interstate clubs. Bring back Fitzroy and South Melbourne and you'll solve your too many teams dillution of talent issue.

Let the states have their own football leagues. SA has the SANFL, WA has the WAFL, Vic has the VFL and the rest can play rugby league or basketball or whatever.

I actually agree

I was once in favour of a national competition but footy is better when there is two supporter bases at the ground cheering on their side

what we want is better for footy, the players and the fans but it isn't a sexy business model

 

[Freomaniac]

That 467k only includes Canberra-Queanbeyan, it'd be about 550k if you include other NSW towns within an hour or so.

Canberra would have a similar number of AFL fans to Hobart, but double the population, so more to grow.

When North ditched Canberra to test the waters on the Gold Coast, crowds were still higher in Canberra. If Canberra had got a team instead of GC17, I think we'd be more developed than they are now (at least off the field, can't predict on-field). We're fully of ex-southerners, decedents of southerners, and liquid public servants with free weekends.

I like your theory about Canberra or the ACT getting some NSW fans.

It worked for the Canberra Raiders on the NRL.

It worked for the ACT Brumbies in rugby union.

Brumbies usually fight above their weight. Half their playing squad are ACT locals and 2nd string NSW guys the NSW Waratahs don't want.

 

[Coolangatta]

Make the AFL Victorian again and get rid of all the interstate clubs. Bring back Fitzroy and South Melbourne and you'll solve your too many teams dillution of talent issue.

Let the states have their own football leagues. SA has the SANFL, WA has the WAFL, Vic has the VFL and the rest can play rugby league or basketball or whatever.

If they’re gonna do that they should have a UEFA champions league type tournament for the best state clubs.

16 teams, 4 groups of 4, everyone plays each other twice, all based on the previous seasons ladders. Then you have quarter finals and semi finals at the highest seed winners home grounds. Final at a preset destination, rotated around the country.