Domestic Violence Epidemic

[Kurve]

Thread here on COERCIVE CONTROL

 

[Bostonian]

Calm down, meant teens

I see you ignored the reference to young girls though. which to clarify should be “teens”

For transparency I’ve edited the post.

I didn't ignore it, it's a perfect example of why so many young men end up in these male oriented spaces.

Control and manipulation isn't a male thing, it's a controlling person thing.

If young men only see young men asked this question then you don't think they'll potentially feel targetted and potentially resentful?

 

[burge13]

Yep..It doesn’t start with killing. It escalates.

Remember that ad a few years back? And all those people saying “we’re targeting boys”. The ad was a response on surveys to teens asking questions about gender and controlling behaviour - the results weren’t good.

So I think yes, harsher sentencing. also teach teen girls signs of control… ask teen boys why they feel the need to control

Broad concept

In my experience, the women in our group are FAR more controlling on their partners than the men are. Some mates literally haven't come out to a pub lunch, footy, anything for going on years because 'it isn't worth the argument'. That is mental

We need to teach both genders about toxic relationships and the early signs of, not just 1 imo.

Young blokes (even blokes in general now) are bombarded with 'men are the problem' when 99% of us have never, nor will ever do anything close to violent to a woman. Eventually when you keep being told you're the problem/enemy a weaker mind is going to be broken. The messaging isn't working, going harder on this isn't going to work. The amount of 'white ribbon' seminars and stuff like this I've gone to through work prove how pointless they are, it's just white noise. We're not educating the right people, not are we doing the right education.

Teaching people the signs of a toxic relationship and methods to end would be better than what we're doing. Why do women stay with violent men and give so many second chances when the vast majority of blokes would never lay a finger on them. Education into toxicity both ways needed

And tougher courts/judges. That is bloody obvious but dont hold your breath here, we're weak as piss in this regard

 

[BFew]

This is indeed very doable. Refer the above post @ #141 quoting barrister Geoffrey Watson.

The NSW Premier already said last week (media conference) something along the lines of implying that usage of things like GPS enabled ankle bracelets for those on AVO/ADVO's won't be done unless Police are able to respond quickly enough if there is a breach. A point I made in this thread last week.

I imagine that Police and the Government don't want to get blamed for assaults and murders if Police can't respond quickly enough to any ankle bracelet notification breaches.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

The NSW Premier already said last week (media conference) something along the lines of implying that usage of things like GPS enabled ankle bracelets for those on AVO/ADVO's won't be done unless Police are able to respond quickly enough if there is a breach. A point I made in this thread last week.

I imagine that Police and the Government don't want to get blamed for assaults and murders if Police can't respond quickly enough to any ankle bracelet notification breaches.

That's a damn shame.

 

[BFew]

If they could design a non-removal device that could temporarily and safely enough incapacitate someone who was in geo-location breach of their AVO/ADVO that would be handy. Struggling to think of how this could be done safely.

Alternatively one that omitted a blaring siren and flashing lights on the AVO/ADVO breacher might help a bit

 

[Brian Oblivion]

If they could design a non-removal device that could temporarily and safely enough incapacitate someone who was in geo-location breach of their AVO/ADVO that would be handy. Struggling to think of how this could be done safely.

Alternatively one that omitted a blaring siren and flashing lights on the AVO/ADVO breacher might help a bit

Maybe it could inject a tranquilliser into them to put them to sleep for a few hours and simultaneously set off an alert for the cops who would have time to go and pick him up and throw him in the clink ?

 

[BFew]

Maybe it could inject a tranquilliser into them to put them to sleep for a few hours and simultaneously set off an alert for the cops who would have time to go and pick him up and throw him in the clink ?

And after the tranquilliser is triggered, and they are in control of a vehicle when tranquillised (legally or illegally), and they crash and kill a car load of people and/or bystanders in the accident, or trigger a petrol station to explode by the crash fire, how are you going to explain that to the public and courts?

 

[Brian Oblivion]

And after the tranquilliser is triggered, and they are in control of a vehicle when tranquillised (legally or illegally), and they crash and kill a car load of people and/or bystanders in the accident, or trigger a petrol station to explode by the crash fire, how are you going to explain that to the public and courts?

Ummm - what about - "These things happen ...... sorry for your loss" ?

Yeah, I get your point.

 

[burge13]

If they could design a non-removal device that could temporarily and safely enough incapacitate someone who was in geo-location breach of their AVO/ADVO that would be handy. Struggling to think of how this could be done safely.

Alternatively one that omitted a blaring siren and flashing lights on the AVO/ADVO breacher might help a bit

Would probably require the victim having to wear one and when they get within a certain distance they get an alert, as do police?

edit, didn't read 'incapacitate'. Yeah, unlikely

 

[BFew]

Would probably require the victim having to wear one and when they get within a certain distance they get an alert, as do police?

Which countries/police forces are already using or trialling a victim auto-alert device?

If the answer is none, good luck with NSW agreeing to be the first.

 

[burge13]

Which countries/police forces are already using or trialling a victim auto-alert device?

If the answer is none, good luck with NSW agreeing to be the first.

Would an innocent person want to wear a garment we often think of crims having to wear? Probably not

So it would have to be done via mobile phone and good luck getting our public service to run a tech project like that successfully

 

[Kurve]

Which countries/police forces are already using or trialling a victim auto-alert device?

If the answer is none, good luck with NSW agreeing to be the first.

Medi-alert devices for the elderly are already being extensively used allowing them to stay in their homes, they're not expensive.

It dials your emergency numbers and opens up the microphone on the device.

 

[BFew]

If a victim alert device fails to alert the victim through a product or software/server/GPS issue, including where like in the Middle East and Europe recently, the GPS system has been successfully attacked/disrupted by nations States, will the Government have a liability fund to quickly compensate the victim and their family quickly for victim GPS alerts that fail to get through, that are not the fault of the victim.

And during any widespread GPS failures (including geo-magnetic ones), will all those violent offenders being device GPS tracked, be rounded up and incarcerated immediately, and their potential victims immediately relocated to other accomodation as a further safety precaution?

 

[Kurve]

Those medi-alert devices are only $55 a year. If successful AVO applicants were issued with one, it might be really helpful and with the listening capacity of a microphone, there's real time witness.

 

[BFew]

Those medi-alert devices are only $55 a year. If successful AVO applicants were issued with one, it might be really helpful and with the listening capacity of a microphone, there's real time witness.

They'd need to be issued with more than one.

I'd be issuing three to make sure there were two for backup at all times, so that if one or more failed, they hopefully can have another one on hand to use immediately.

 

[Underarrest_]

Broad concept

In my experience, the women in our group are FAR more controlling on their partners than the men are. Some mates literally haven't come out to a pub lunch, footy, anything for going on years because 'it isn't worth the argument'. That is mental

We need to teach both genders about toxic relationships and the early signs of, not just 1 imo.

Young blokes (even blokes in general now) are bombarded with 'men are the problem' when 99% of us have never, nor will ever do anything close to violent to a woman. Eventually when you keep being told you're the problem/enemy a weaker mind is going to be broken. The messaging isn't working, going harder on this isn't going to work. The amount of 'white ribbon' seminars and stuff like this I've gone to through work prove how pointless they are, it's just white noise. We're not educating the right people, not are we doing the right education.

Teaching people the signs of a toxic relationship and methods to end would be better than what we're doing. Why do women stay with violent men and give so many second chances when the vast majority of blokes would never lay a finger on them. Education into toxicity both ways needed

And tougher courts/judges. That is bloody obvious but dont hold your breath here, we're weak as piss in this regard

I agree with early education (early warning signs, unhealthy/ healthy relationships, positive communication, increased self esteem, etc for both males and females is important and would especially be helpful for children who have learnt this behaviour, even normalised it through their own experiences.
As we know the highest risk of DV homicide is when the aggrieved leaves the relationship (One of many reasons they don’t leave...fear,) which is why it’s paramount that alternatives such as early education, stronger penalties and other possible alternatives mentioned in this thread are vital sooner than later.

 

[BFew]

Is anyone aware of any jurisdictions (in Australia or overseas) where court ordered DV education is ordered and adequately enough provided before a DV perpetrator is allowed to leave the court room or custody (including Psych ward custody), as part of both ADVO's and any related DV criminal charges?

Including for those sent to Psych wards/facilities, for assessment/treatment, so that they must successfully complete DV education before being released into the community, or allowed out into the community for short periods during their Psych ward/facility incarceration.

 

[Underarrest_]

Is anyone aware of any jurisdictions (in Australia or overseas) where court ordered DV education is ordered and adequately enough provided before a DV perpetrator is allowed to leave the court room or custody (including Psych ward custody), as part of both ADVO's and any related DV criminal charges?

Including for those sent to Psych wards/facilities, for assessment/treatment, so that they must successfully complete DV education before being released into the community, or allowed out into the community for short periods during their Psych ward/facility incarceration.

I can only speak for my area but there is a voluntary DV education program, but it is not mandated in court. I believe mandating these programs would be helpful.

 

[BFew]

I can only speak for my area but there is a voluntary DV education program, but it is not mandated in court. I believe mandating these programs would be helpful.

In NSW, they don't even have mandatory education on what constitutes components of the ADVO/AVO's for perpetrators., like stalking and harassment.

For most perpetrators, this could be done via on-line learning modules whilst hanging around in custody or the courts, or prior to release from the court-house.

 

[Kurve]

In my experience, the women in our group are FAR more controlling on their partners than the men are. Some mates literally haven't come out to a pub lunch, footy, anything for going on years because 'it isn't worth the argument'. That is mental

Maybe they're just blaming her and the reality is that they simply prefer to spend time at home with the family. Also, telling you what you want to hear.

 

[BFew]

Underlying and affecting the viability of material changes to things in the Justice system is the impact on victims and perpetrators (including those already with mental health issues and illnesses) of delays in cases progressing through the Justice System, due to lack of human and physical Court, legal and police resources, and the underutilisation of technology in the Justice System.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The NSW Premier already said last week (media conference) something along the lines of implying that usage of things like GPS enabled ankle bracelets for those on AVO/ADVO's won't be done unless Police are able to respond quickly enough if there is a breach. A point I made in this thread last week.

I imagine that Police and the Government don't want to get blamed for assaults and murders if Police can't respond quickly enough to any ankle bracelet notification breaches.

It’s an interesting lesson in politics.

To be clear - police would reach SOME situations on time, but not others.

All in all, an improvement on the current situation and likely a saver of lives.

There is no downside.

However, politicians will not allow it as it will sharpen the focus on their resourcing of police, and thus send blame their way.

Thus is the society we live in. Politician’s reputations are more important than lives.

I wonder if there isn’t another way however. If you’re of a certain age you’ll recall the Safety House program for kids. I wonder if there’s not a program that could alert potential victims of their attacker entering their zone, and give them a list of very close safe houses for them to go to. Hell, send them straight to the nearest cop shop or fire station.

Perhaps people could register as AVO safe houses, and when they’re “logged on” (ie home), the system would send the potential victim the address of the nearest safe house. It couldn’t be revealed until then of course and certainly not published.

Police would also be notified and attend asap - it just might buy that precious time.

It wouldn’t be without its problems, I’m just looking for potential improvement. It would of course mean stress for the potential victims.

 

[BFew]

2GB's Chris O'Keefe claims that from the Court transcript, that NSW Police did not explicitly say that the Police position was that bail should be refused.

Sounds like someone has misled/misinformed the NSW Police Commissioner.

Unless the registrar who granted bail confirms that the NSW Police rep at the bail/court hearing's position was interpreted by him as Police refusing bail, and he disagreed with this, and offered bail to Billings regardless.

Surely to avoid confusion there should be a form/e-form with a tick box that Police fill out. Yes or No, for whether Police think bail should be an option. And that this should be discussed and clarified at the Court hearing.

You'd think that there would be some failsafe's in the process for bail decisions like this.

Even if before there was a final decision made, the registrar/magistrate/judge asked the Police rep if Police agree to bail being granted.

The real reason Molly Ticehurst's alleged killer got granted bail

Daniel Billings, 29, allegedly murdered Molly Ticehurst, 28, at the home they used to share in Forbes, 375km west of Sydney , sometime between midnight and 1.50am on Monday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Molly Ticehurst: Transcript reveals the reason Daniel Billings got granted bail by a court staffer when he was accused of rape - after cops warned she could be in danger in Forbes​

By CHARLOTTE KARP FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIA
PUBLISHED: 15:13 AEST, 26 April 2024 | UPDATED: 16:08 AEST, 26 April 2024
...
because he did not have a criminal history.

The bail decision in the Molly Ticehurst case reveals gaps in legal procedure - 2GB Drive with Chris O'Keefe

Chris O'Keefe dives into the court transcript around the controversial bail granted to Daniel Billings before the alleged murder of Molly Ticehurst, revealing shortcomings in the court process.

omny.fm

 

[BFew]

Probably won't be long before a journo asks the NSW Police Commissioner if she's read the 12 minute Court transcript from Billings bail granting.

 

[BFew]

What reasons might there be for the below referred to case of alleged DV being suppressed?

'Beggars belief': Molly Ticehurst's death exposes gaps in justice system, former magistrate says

Molly Ticehurst was allegedly murdered by her ex-boyfriend just two weeks after he faced court charged with other violent offences. A former magistrate and law expert say this shows a gap in the system that puts victims at risk.

www.abc.net.au

'... The ABC can reveal another woman was allegedly murdered in regional NSW last year after her former partner was granted bail by a court registrar in similar circumstances.

We can't reveal details of that case for legal reasons, but the registrar's decision meant the man was released on bail after allegedly assaulting the victim just a few days before allegedly killing her.

Her family have told ABC News they believe the justice system failed to protect her and want her case to be included in the government's review of the bail laws.

A close family member said this week she believed more should have been done to change the system last year after their loved one was allegedly murdered.
...'

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