List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Moquo]

I haven’t presented anything as fact because I simply don’t know.

You have no more information than I do, it’s paper talk and a xxxxxx off manager. Even the language is deliberately emotive, courted ? Seriously.

Yes, the emotive language and conventions are just bullshit.
Seems to me there are two possibilities:-

a) We reduced our offer
or
b) They increased their demand

If it's (a) then we are campaigners, but doing what is right for our club (sorry Leek but things have changed)

If it's (b) then they are campaigners, and they can eat a bag while they apologise to their player.

 

[Lennylegs]

And what do we all expect to be doing in this alternate reality where Mason Cox

18

Mason Cox

Age

35

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

suddenly becomes a savvy recruit? Will we be flying our cars through skies filled with strawberry ice cream? Shooting laser beams out of our nipples? Someone will need to explain it to me because I sure as shit can't see it.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

So much is in the detail which we just don’t know.

We could speculate what his base was, incentives for games played, b&f finish but it’s all just guess work.

What we know is he’s got a revised offer from gws and interest elsewhere, we did what we thought was best for the st Kilda football club. We broke no rules in doing so and I’m glad our club has moved on to other potential deals.

In hindsight it would’ve been best for Aleer & for GWS if he had’ve received a season ending injury following his stand out game against the Cats.

In the end he hurt his chances by playing on and showing us his deficiencies; showing us he was not a certain best 23 player and showing us he was no better than other kids we already have.

It sucks to be him but it would’ve sucked more to up our offer and get the deal done simply because we were scared of being criticised.

 

[SainterinSydney]

If Ro goes, you just need a senior warm body to throw at the ruck position as a break in case of emergency. We don't want Dodson and Keeler thrown into the deep end.

 

[MrFoster]

Everyone even Aleer’s camp would have to acknowledge that going after Aleer a 24 year old unproven player from a non-football background is sheer desperation by us from having 0 success with drafting/trading key defenders in the past 10 years..

Now we should be super relieved that we have turned a corner and became a destination club with better players picking us like JSOS did. Imagine the criticism and anger from St Kilda supporters when they realised we’ve bought a lemon and want our money back

In hindsight it would’ve been best for Aleer & for GWS if he had’ve received a season ending injury following his stand out game against the Cats.

In the end he hurt his chances by playing on and showing us his deficiencies; showing us he was not a certain best 23 player and showing us he was no better than other kids we already have.

It sucks to be him but it would’ve sucked more to up our offer and get the deal done simply because we were scared of being criticised.

Exactly Aleer at 24 is no better than Camaniti at 21. I’d rather pay Camaniti the higher salary and save the draft pick/unrest from players after everyone realises he is a dud (for $600+ salary)

 

[pebblesofsand]

And what do we all expect to be doing in this alternate reality where Mason Cox suddenly becomes a savvy recruit? Will we be flying our cars through skies filled with strawberry ice cream? Shooting laser beams out of our nipples? Someone will need to explain it to me because I sure as shit can't see it.

Virtually every team in the AFL has a 1st ruck, a mature aged strong bodied 2nd ruck to fill in if the 1st sustains a longish term injury and then at least one developing ruck.

If Marshall leaves we have TDK and Dodson.

So that's why there's discussion about the likes of Cox, Soldo, Crossley, Goldstein etc etc

 

[Saints43]

If Marshall leaves we have TDK and Dodson.

So that's why there's discussion about the likes of Cox, Soldo, Crossley, Goldstein etc etc

This is the strongest case I've seen for keeping Marshall, at least for next season, and seeing if he can work with TDK.
Unless Marshall moving on unlocks some extraordinary other trade.

 

[Lennylegs]

Virtually every team in the AFL has a 1st ruck, a mature aged strong bodied 2nd ruck to fill in if the 1st sustains a longish term injury and then at least one developing ruck.

If Marshall leaves we have TDK and Dodson.

So that's why there's discussion about the likes of Cox, Soldo, Crossley, Goldstein etc etc

Yeah I understand the concept. But you've just named two better alternatives to Mason friggin Cox.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Cox and soldo can heck right off
Chuck mitch in as back up and tell him to hunt the pill
Throw hammer in
Titanic even
Keeler would be fine cmon he isn't made of glass ffs
Back Godson in

Pussy footng about with soldo and his bimbo is laughable
Cox is just a flat out no.

 

[bird_man]

I can’t agree on this.

TDK is a big mobile man who can take a good pack mark and mark on a lead.

He’s also a good kick, quite accurate with good technique.

How that translates into not suited to the roll I’ll never know. Mason Cox has been very effective at times for collingwood and is half the player TDK is.

It’s the same with Marshall there is no reason at all why he can’t be an effective tall forward. If you’re structured properly maybe a huge part of his roll is just bringing the ball to the ground and making sure a key tall has to match up against him.

I’ll be happy trading Marshall when the trade clearly makes us a better team. Imo until then it’s just a cop out and makes no sense, I’m over doing lousy deals to look relevant and I hope the club is.

As for the talk of soldo, we have got to be kidding if we do that.

Anyway thankfully trade period will be over in a few days and then we’ll see.

Blues fans said the same for years before finally giving up and realising he's not a forward. Not even close.

In the games he played along side Pittonet this year he averaged 14 disposals, 14 hit outs and 0.16 goals a game. Every stat dropped dramatically when Pittonet came into the side.

He's also not that good of a pack mark other than taking the odd one now and then. He sits equal 80th in the comp this year for contested marks.

No idea why you think things are going be so different for him at our club than it has been at Carlton for years.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

My take. We did our business early with Suns for a few reasons. Most importantly we assured Ned and his management we would get it done quickly. We wanted to set the price for a multi year contracted player, looking at you Geelong. Suns wanted a quick trade to set themselves up for Petracca. I think Suns will help us out once all of their wheeling and dealing is up - I'm hopeful at least - Butler for overs is my hope.

We didn't want Aleer in the end, thats clear as day. We were lucky that we were able to see some exposed form which may not have been quite so obvious in the VFL. I wish Ross didn't 'give the assurance' when he went to Sydney but that could easily have just been media guesswork as well. Our offer unsettled the playing group, it was irresponsible and could've absolutely killed the culture among the kids we have coming through. As bad as the optics are, this will blow over in a week or two. Footy is fickle. We fixed our mistake before it cost us.

Everything points to us having something up our sleeve. Plenty of people have alluded to it. Get the obvious stuff done and out of the way and work in the background for something else and give us time to swoop. Gut feel, but we will be involved all the way to the end of the trade period.

Maybe Ross just went to Sydney to watch a semi final.

Or Finn Callaghan in preparation for a raid in 2027

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

There’s semantics and there’s this.

We courted him for over a year from many reports. We got him to nominate us (based on a contract offer).

We were into him, we got him interested in us. Picking holes in the contract and trade details only leans into our villainy more.

Plus again, the issue isn’t that a trade didn’t eventuate, the issue is that we bailed at the first point of negotiations

All that ignores the fact that Leek would be a StK player if GWS had accepted the trade offer we made.

What happened after that is irrelevant.

 

[bird_man]

Again.... assuming marshal to Geelong is still on (who knows there) I would suggest that

a 25 year old midfielder for an end of 1st round pick to be used as currency for Curnow you say?

Yes, that's what I say. I imagine that would just be a very small piece of the deal or they would use it to try to trade up in the draft.

 

[Linton Street Saint]

Are we the bad guys? Oh well....

Couldn't give a crap...the only question I am interested in, after every step, every decision, is

DID THAT MOVE GET US CLOSER TO A FLAG?

Everything else is irrelevant......

I am still yet to see the outpouring of grief for all those made redundant daily or had job offers pulled after umpteenth interview.

I am truly sorry Aleer is crying into his 500K on holiday in Barcelona. I'd be livid too.

 

[saintmike65]

So much of this is conjecture.

Just because it’s reported by a journalist doesn’t make it true. Factually him nominating us is merely him publicly stating st Kilda was his preferred destination. What other meaning does it have, does it preclude gws from upping their offer, does it compel them to only consider offers from us, does it stop another club making offers to him.

The teeth gnashing over this is just crazy. This is the afl system, we can’t make him a written offer, we can’t contract him for next year while he’s still under contract to gws, I don’t think we can even give him a medical without gws approval. God the story’s are just so over the top, wined and dined him, seduced him . In plain language that would be gubby or sos having a meal with Aleer and discussing the possibility of him joining the club.

We’ve just told Jack Steele our captain to look around. Imo that’s brutal but it happens every year and nobody turns a hair. Aleer if he’s any good will either stay at gws or accept another offer and prove we were stupid not to seal the deal. Either way in reality there will be some real hard luck stories after trade period and they’ll be the players whose afl dreams are over.

This is the strongest case I've seen for keeping Marshall, at least for next season, and seeing if he can work with TDK.
Unless Marshall moving on unlocks some extraordinary other trade.

Blues fans said the same for years before finally giving up and realising he's not a forward. Not even close.

In the games he played along side Pittonet this year he averaged 14 disposals, 14 hit outs and 0.16 goals a game. Every stat dropped dramatically when Pittonet came into the side.

He's also not that good of a pack mark other than taking the odd one now and then. He sits equal 80th in the comp this year for contested marks.

No idea why you think things are going be so different for him at our club than it has been at Carlton for years.

When TDK was sole ruck this year he was the most influential Ruckman in the game

 

[Marlo]

Heard from an unreliable source that we pulled out of the Leek trade because of an offer from Brissy...

 

[phantom13]

I haven’t presented anything as fact because I simply don’t know.

You have no more information than I do, it’s paper talk and a xxxxxx off manager. Even the language is deliberately emotive, courted ? Seriously.

Courted, recruited, pitched to.

It all amounts to us pursuing him.

Call it what you like, what happened remains the same.

I don’t care but I’m not gonna pretend we’re the victims of some unfounded witch hunt.

 

[Saints43]

When TDK was sole ruck this year he was the most influential Ruckman in the game

There are ways that TDK and RoMa can play together, surely, that doesn't just have Rowan plonked at full forward like a shag on a rock.

I could imagine RoMa starting forward and then drifting back into the play while we play 5 forwards like we often do now.

Between Ro and TDK I reckon we could start to lock the ball into our half which I see as a real problem with us.

 

[phantom13]

All that ignores the fact that Leek would be a StK player if GWS had accepted the trade offer we made.

What happened after that is irrelevant.

So we should just accept whatever Geelong throws at us too yeh?

Dumb argument.

To be clear, I don’t really care, we did the right thing by us but we handled it from a PR pov pretty poorly and knowingly went against the expected process because it benefited us at the expense of Aleer.

We’ve gone full villain mode, just accept that rather than trying to be a victim.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Heard from an unreliable source that we pulled out of the Leek trade because of an offer from Brissy...

 

[Minga]

 

[Moquo]

So we should just accept whatever Geelong throws at us too yeh?

Dumb argument.

To be clear, I don’t really care, we did the right thing by us but we handled it from a PR pov pretty poorly and knowingly went against the expected process because it benefited us at the expense of Aleer.

We’ve gone full villain mode, just accept that rather than trying to be a victim.

No we shouldn't "just accept whatever Geelong throws at us". We also shouldn't scream like banshees in the media at the injustice to poor Ro, who now has to tragically play football for the same team he did this year.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Heard from an unreliable source that we pulled out of the Leek trade because of an offer from Brissy...

 

[SainterinSydney]

Heard from an unreliable source that we pulled out of the Leek trade because of an offer from Brissy...

So we are getting the Ashcroft brothers?

 

[goodie23]

Darcy 2.0 father son to the bulldogs.

They have been so lucky with father sons.

Lately yes, over time they've still got some catching up to do. This chart speaks volumes - I believe that apart from Adelaide in 2017 and West Coast in 2018, every Grand Final in the last 10 years has been between teams in the top 8 on the list of games played by father sons or academy players. And the last 4 GF’s exclusively played by the top 4 teams on the list. No wonder we keep railing against such a defective system.