List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[Tommy Wigs]

I like the idea of naming teams. But having gone through picking teams on the AFL website (they have a team picker thingy), WA are thin. A Victorian 2nd XXIII could probably beat them.

I just went to take a look. Am I crazy or is Higgins a huge absence in the picker?! There’s a hole in genuine small forwards and he’s not even an option?

It was difficult picking one when trying to avoid all the hateable Hawks, Dogs, Pies types.

 

[The Punter]

I just went to take a look. Am I crazy or is Higgins a huge absence in the picker?! There’s a hole in genuine small forwards and he’s not even an option?

It was difficult picking one when trying to avoid all the hateable Hawks, Dogs, Pies types.

You're not crazy. I was looking to select him and he wasn't an option.

Rep teams and genuine specialist smalls (at either end). Just not good enough.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I don't think he'll stay secret for long. He is already A grade in his first year. I had him easily in our top 5 players this year. If he plays more midfield the footy world will start to notice him more and more. He'd be in the conversation for the best high half forward in footy IMO.

For me in a perfect world, he remains as a high half-forward and evolves into one of the elite players in the competition in that role.

Players with his ability to find the ball in that part of the ground, hit the scoreboard, use it efficiently, and still do the hard, gritty work are incredibly rare.

If we’re not needing him in the midfield, I’d be more than happy to see him continue developing in his current role.

 

[gringo2011]

What's this "we" crap? gringo was giddy about Lethers and you moan about everything anyway so it doesn't count for anything.

WTF are you on? I never wanted Lethlean. I criticised everything he did. Mowman and I were on the money with those identifying those charlatans.

 

[gringo2011]

If:

NAS, Hall, King, Pou, TDK, Ryan, Wilkie, Flanders, Windy, Tauru, Higgins, Owens, Wilson, Marshall, Sinclair are all fit and firing next year.

Then:

The Saints marketing team will have the easiest gig in the world.

I reckon Lyon was stung by being called boring to watch. He keeps going for glitter over grind players lately. Ross 1.0 would have wanted 22 B grade workhorses.

 

[gringo2011]

Very interested as to what their shortcomings were seen as? Not privy to such things as really from the outside you simply hear “great appointment, well respected”.
Even from the outside some appointments seem a little “odd/left field” but not so much these two.
With Lethlean I’m aware of his social misdemeanours but not professionally…

He was paid elite administrator money and his only footy department experience was in Ammos. He reviewed our list after being sacked as an AFL media boss. It was like getting blinded by a corporate big-wig over actually looking at his resume.

 

[gringo2011]

Now l didn't say he wouldn't be critical and l don't know who this Napkins kent is, l just said l don't see Windy hitting the elite bracket. For mine that's top 5-6 mids in the comp in any one year.

Most players don't make the elite bracket so no shame there. No reason he can't be an Ed Richards level type though. Still in the top bracket but not quite elite. Even if he's B plus but just adds the glue and grind he can be a super important piece of the side.

 

[gringo2011]

Hoping Hastie can make a HBF his own and become a best 18 player. I really think he has a lot of upside

He does a few things every time he plays that show what he could be. He's got a bit of latent X factor. If he can get the basics right I reckon he could be an upmarket flashier Sam Gilbert. You were on him early.

 

[gringo2011]

Time to sack SOS again it seems. It was nice while it lasted.

He's done alright so far but we'll see how we go in a few years when we have to bring in a few pieces and the cap starts getting tight. He's got stay of execution ATM. If he gets us a flag we'll let him have a week or two rest and then bring the whip out again.

 

[phantom13]

I just went to take a look. Am I crazy or is Higgins a huge absence in the picker?! There’s a hole in genuine small forwards and he’s not even an option?

It was difficult picking one when trying to avoid all the hateable Hawks, Dogs, Pies types.

Him not being in the AA squad was ****ed. I still think he should have been in the 23 given the need for an actual small forward in modern footy (Jamie Elliot kicked more goals but isnt a true small forward).

Higgo is criminally underrated and i say that as someone that ****ing hates watching him kick a football cause its gross.

 

[gringo2011]

I say this a lot, but I think it was as much about poor development as drafting. The development is on the coaches and the director of footy and it hurts to say but yes, there wasn't enough rigour in the selection of those responsible for that development or the reviewing of the coaching development processes. I think we were probably not stringent enough.

Was that because we were distracted by our inclusive causes? Of course not. It was more likely that we were desperate to be not seen by football people as a ****-up club or an unreliable rabble. Keep stable and out of the news was the order of the day.

How could we have got more quality people to work with us? To prove that we were a genial and solid employer I guess is what we thought.

Part of it was that Lyon was an autocrat that covered about 6 roles. Once he left we brought in coaches with no experience and no idea how to structure up the footy department using single role staff. There was no real structure in any part of the club.

I saw Richo up close and he was always talking like he was on the verge of success but nothing about what he was saying seemed to have any actual concrete reasoning. It was all based on wait and see where hope takes us.

 

[phantom13]

He's done alright so far but we'll see how we go in a few years when we have to bring in a few pieces and the cap starts getting tight. He's got stay of execution ATM. If he gets us a flag we'll let him have a week or two rest and then bring the whip out again.

On this, and im not a lover or hater, i think it does need to be considered that he got given a ****ing BOUNTY to play with. Like Flanders, TDK and probably even NAS are getting more money here than they really should (and yes i know flanders could have gotten more) but the recruitment gig is alot easier when you can just open the chequebook.

I really like who hes recruited and how hes recruited, im also not against the draft picks hes traded out to do it but weve mortgaged the future a bit, if we dont get real good real quick itll be tough to retain everyone.

 

[gringo2011]

His stats when he's played midfield are eye-catching to say the least. Needs to start tackling though, I doubt Ross and the coaches will give him a very long leash as it comes to the defensive side of the game.

Very excited though, could be an A-grader

Funny enough he seems a very good and very vicious tackler.

 

[gringo2011]

On this, and im not a lover or hater, i think it does need to be considered that he got given a ****ing BOUNTY to play with. Like Flanders, TDK and probably even NAS are getting more money here than they really should (and yes i know flanders could have gotten more) but the recruitment gig is alot easier when you can just open the chequebook.

I really like who hes recruited and how hes recruited, im also not against the draft picks hes traded out to do it but weve mortgaged the future a bit, if we dont get real good real quick itll be tough to retain everyone.

It's still a bit wait and see. They could all add a lot but we did pay absolute elite money on potential. Even just as a momentum kick start I think it was an incredible haul. It looks like a super competitive side on paper. Lyon is going to have to ride them hard because all our credibility is riding on their backs and this is his architecture.

 

[phantom13]

It's still a bit wait and see. They could all add a lot but we did pay absolute elite money on potential. Even just as a momentum kick start I think it was an incredible haul. It looks like a super competitive side on paper. Lyon is going to have to ride them hard because all our credibility is riding on their backs and this is his architecture.

Yeh its high risk high reward and im absolutely not shit canning it, i love that we went aggressive and are trying to change it, just noting we paid alot and SOS has used all the dollars (which again, not a criticism) so its on field success now.

 

[Leap of Faith]

The only reason this list is an F is because Dayne Zorko should always be first picked

Selwood a monty for captain in my book. Nick Watson also in the line up.

 

[L_W_P]

That's... wishful thinking. We've done well in our trades, but the simple truth Melbourne only have three picks in 2026 as it stands, Heath was worth next to nothing and we were doing Steele and ourselves a favour by accepting peanuts for him to leave. The West Coast pick was a throw in to even up the value a bit.

I do expect we might package on or two of those picks to jump back into this year's draft though, hopefully to nab a slider

With how even/random the first round of this draft looks we might have a value on Jevan Phillipou that we'd be willing to pay.

Maybe we say to West Coast (pick 13) that we'd give them our F1st and a 3rd for their pick + loose change.

They get to defer a pick and spread the rebuild out, we get back in before the Crows and keep building the good vibes for the young crew at the Saints.

 

[stavro#4]

Most players don't make the elite bracket so no shame there. No reason he can't be an Ed Richards level type though. Still in the top bracket but not quite elite. Even if he's B plus but just adds the glue and grind he can be a super important piece of the side.

I think people put far too many prerequisites into the mix when discussing who is elite and who isn’t.

For me, tiering should in my eyes is as below:

• Superstars / A+
• Elite position players / A
• very good position players / -A or B+

Etc.

Nas is a superstar
But Wilkie Sinclair argument to make about Marshall and TDK as A graders.

Flanders 2024 is definitely an A Grader.

And this will cause division. But if JSOS is as good as the data that that’s been mentioned by the club a handful of times now. If he stays fit has to be considered an A grade back.

Then there like 10-15 blokes who are probably B graders with A ceilings. Windhager is somewhere in here to circle back to the discussion on hand. I’m not sure he makes it as an A grade footballer. But depending on role if he cleans up his disposal and starts having impact forward of the centre with consistency or he ramps up the tackles and clearances alongside his disposal numbers. Why not?

 

[phantom13]

Selwood a monty for captain in my book. Nick Watson also in the line up.

Ive never understood the hatred for Selwood. Unbeileveable player, tough as nails, great captain and seemingly great guy.

With how even/random the first round of this draft looks we might have a value on Jevan Phillipou that we'd be willing to pay.

Maybe we say to West Coast (pick 13) that we'd give them our F1st and a 3rd for their pick + loose change.

They get to defer a pick and spread the rebuild out, we get back in before the Crows and keep building the good vibes for the young crew at the Saints.

Love this, all for it frankly.

 

[phantom13]

I think people put far too many prerequisites into the mix when discussing who is elite and who isn’t.

For me, tiering should in my eyes is as below:

• Superstars / A+
• Elite position players / A
• very good position players / -A or B+

Etc.

Nas is a superstar
But Wilkie Sinclair argument to make about Marshall and TDK as A graders.

Flanders 2024 is definitely an A Grader.

And this will cause division. But if JSOS is as good as the data that that’s been mentioned by the club a handful of times now. If he stays fit has to be considered an A grade back.

Then there like 10-15 blokes who are probably B graders with A ceilings. Windhager is somewhere in here to circle back to the discussion on hand. I’m not sure he makes it as an A grade footballer. But depending on role if he cleans up his disposal and starts having impact forward of the centre with consistency or he ramps up the tackles and clearances alongside his disposal numbers. Why not?

Yeh this echoes my thoughts on Windy.

As a genuine two way mid hes probably only behind Atkins IMO (Miller used to be the peak until he moved to his current half forward role).

 

[True Believer]

Most players don't make the elite bracket so no shame there. No reason he can't be an Ed Richards level type though. Still in the top bracket but not quite elite. Even if he's B plus but just adds the glue and grind he can be a super important piece of the side.

I think a lot of people get caught up in labels and categorising players, the only important thing - is he consistently effective in his role? That is all I care about. I couldn't give a fat rat's if the rest of the world graded our players as impaired spuds, as long as those players are consistently effective at executing their roles we will win more than we lose, and eventually that results in a win on the last day in September..........

 

[ScrappyDo]

WTF are you on? I never wanted Lethlean. I criticised everything he did. Mowman and I were on the money with those identifying those charlatans.

Just go with it...

 

[stavro#4]

Yeh this echoes my thoughts on Windy.

As a genuine two way mid hes probably only behind Atkins IMO (Miller used to be the peak until he moved to his current half forward role).

I have a lot of our players compared to the pinnacle of roles they are playing and think: man that could easily be: Windy Owens Pou Tauru Hall…. King


Now that’s both a good and bad thing. So I’ll just focus on the fact I want our coaching group to coach and squeeze every bit of development out of this list as they can possibly can.

 

[phantom13]

I have a lot of our players compared to the pinnacle of roles they are playing and think: man that could easily be: Windy Owens Pou Tauru Hall…. King


Now that’s both a good and bad thing. So I’ll just focus on the fact I want our coaching group to coach and squeeze every bit of development out of this list as they can possibly can.

I think Windy is an elite two way mid right now, perhaps he hasnt done it for long enough but im happy to call it.

Everyone else on that list certainly has the potential (King and Owens probably did it but have regressed) and Hall probably hasnt done it long enough but with a full pre season might have the highest ceiling.

 

[Mowman]

WTF are you on? I never wanted Lethlean. I criticised everything he did. Mowman and I were on the money with those identifying those charlatans.

It’s just too funny